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#26

Post by Volkonski »

Now reporting 37 dead on NBC News. :(
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#27

Post by mimi »

guardian has a blog going. updating.[/break1]guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/20/oklahoma-tornado-moore-live-blog]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... -live-blogThis video was posted there.Here is some astonishing footage of the tornado taken by a witness using a phone.

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#28

Post by TollandRCR »

Now reporting 37 dead on NBC News. :(A local TV station says that two dozen of those were school children. Another report says "only" seven were school children.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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#29

Post by kate520 »

I would think several times about moving back there if I were...anyone.Folks in the southern plains say similar things about Californians after an earthquake plus people living in the gulf states and the North Carolina outer banks after a hurricane.I'm a CA girl who's lived back east and in the south. I've experienced tornadoes, hurricanes, baseball-sized hail, blizzards (trapped 4 days ) earthquakes and have had to evacuate wildfires twice. I'm staying put. I'd much rather be in an earthquake than a tornado or any of those other things, TYVM.I lived in Appalachia (hi Duckie) near deep and strip mines. The strip mines are aptly named. They strip all the vegetation off the face of a mountain with gigantic 'dozers to dig out seams close to the surface. Every spring when the snow melts this one town (forgive me I can't remember the name now) built on the side of a mountain would get washed away, literally. Houses, most of the businesses, trailers, schools, all tumbled down the mountain in debris flows , carried by raging waters. They always rebuilt. In the same spot. Even businesses who got hit every year. Some years they'd be spared. Most years, not.I never understood that. Still don't.
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TollandRCR
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#30

Post by TollandRCR »

...Every spring when the snow melts this one town (forgive me I can't remember the name now) built on the side of a mountain would get washed away, literally. Houses, most of the businesses, trailers, schools, all tumbled down the mountain in debris flows , carried by raging waters.





They always rebuilt. In the same spot. Even businesses who got hit every year. Some years they'd be spared. Most years, not.





I never understood that. Still don't.This is not the town that floods so regularly, but it is a town that suffered grievously in the manner that you described. They lost their community; it has not been rebuilt.





Everything in Its Path: Destruction of Community in the Buffalo Creek Flood by Kai T. Erikson (son of ...)


The 1977 Sorokin Award–winning story of Buffalo Creek in the aftermath of a devastating flood.





On February 26, 1972, 132-million gallons of debris-filled muddy water burst through a makeshift mining-company dam and roared through Buffalo Creek, a narrow mountain hollow in West Virginia. Following the flood, survivors from a previously tightly knit community were crowded into trailer homes with no concern for former neighborhoods. The result was a collective trauma that lasted longer than the individual traumas caused by the original disaster.





Making extensive use of the words of the people themselves, Erikson details the conflicting tensions of mountain life in general—the tensions between individualism and dependency, self-assertion and resignation, self-centeredness and group orientation—and examines the loss of connection, disorientation, declining morality, rise in crime, rise in out-migration, etc., that resulted from the sudden loss of neighborhood.[link]Out of a population of 5000 people,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Creek_Flood[/link], 125 were killed, 1,121 were injured, and over 4,000 were left homeless. 507 houses were destroyed, in addition to forty-four mobile homes and 30 businesses.[1] The disaster also destroyed or damaged homes in Lundale, Saunders, Amherstdale, Crites, Latrobe and Larado. In its legal filings, Pittston Coal referred to the accident as "an Act of God."
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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#31

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Did every Oklahoma school have a cellar where students and teachers could go for safety?

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#32

Post by A Legal Lohengrin »

[link]Out of a population of 5000 people,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Creek_Flood[/link], 125 were killed, 1,121 were injured, and over 4,000 were left homeless. 507 houses were destroyed, in addition to forty-four mobile homes and 30 businesses.[1] The disaster also destroyed or damaged homes in Lundale, Saunders, Amherstdale, Crites, Latrobe and Larado. In its legal filings, Pittston Coal referred to the accident as "an Act of God."This book, [/break1]amazon.com/Buffalo-Creek-Disaster-Survivors-Coal-Mining/dp/0307388492]The Buffalo Creek Disaster: How the Survivors of One of the Worst Disasters in Coal-Mining History Brought Suit Against the Coal Company- And Won by Gerald M. Stern, is routinely taught in civil procedure in the first year of law school.





Unfortunately, under the name of "tort reform" to prevent "frivolous" lawsuits, we have increasingly failed to apply liability to corporations no matter how monstrous their actions.

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#33

Post by TollandRCR »

Now 51 reported killed.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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#34

Post by TollandRCR »

Did every Oklahoma school have a cellar where students and teachers could go for safety?The students in the two Moore schools were told either to shelter in the restrooms or in the hallways, "clinging to the walls."
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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#35

Post by TexasFilly »

Did every Oklahoma school have a cellar where students and teachers could go for safety?Heeeeeeeeeell no! Those cost money, and nobody, especially in OK, wants to pay taxes. :(
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#36

Post by TexasFilly »

I would think several times about moving back there if I were...anyone.Folks in the southern plains say similar things about Californians after an earthquake plus people living in the gulf states and the North Carolina outer banks after a hurricane.I'm a CA girl who's lived back east and in the south. I've experienced tornadoes, hurricanes, baseball-sized hail, blizzards (trapped 4 days ) earthquakes and have had to evacuate wildfires twice. I'm staying put. I'd much rather be in an earthquake than a tornado or any of those other things, TYVM.I lived in Appalachia (hi Duckie) near deep and strip mines. The strip mines are aptly named. They strip all the vegetation off the face of a mountain with gigantic 'dozers to dig out seams close to the surface. Every spring when the snow melts this one town (forgive me I can't remember the name now) built on the side of a mountain would get washed away, literally. Houses, most of the businesses, trailers, schools, all tumbled down the mountain in debris flows , carried by raging waters. They always rebuilt. In the same spot. Even businesses who got hit every year. Some years they'd be spared. Most years, not.I never understood that. Still don't.Unfortunately, there is no ideal spot to live in the US. I've looked! :lol: Personally, I'd rather have notice of a hurricane a few days in advance so I could get the hell out of dodge, if I chose to do so. That said, summer has rapidly descended upon us here in Houston, after an abnormally cool spring. I may have to rent out the guest house at FEMA camp 17 1/2 and pray there are no earthquakes during my leasehold. :D
I love the poorly educated!!!

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#37

Post by ducktape »

Unfortunately, there is no ideal spot to live in the US. I've looked! :lol: Personally, I'd rather have notice of a hurricane a few days in advance so I could get the hell out of dodge, if I chose to do so. That said, summer has rapidly descended upon us here in Houston, after an abnormally cool spring. I may have to rent out the guest house at FEMA camp 17 1/2 and pray there are no earthquakes during my leasehold. :D We're never getting out of here alive!!!!!

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#38

Post by realist »

:D Did every Oklahoma school have a cellar where students and teachers could go for safety?Not likely. That would be sensible.I grew up in West TX. The elementary school I attended built a huge shelter in the late 50s or very early 60s. Large enough to hold all students and staff plus a large number of the outlying farm families if they could make it in time. Emergency lighting and water and "some" food supply. It's still there and still usable and is used still. Of course virtually every house had a storm cellar as well. I spent time both in the one at school and on the farm on many occasions. Seen lotsa tornadoes. Of course that was West Texas and this is OK. I think they are more nuts in OK, if that's possible.
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#39

Post by A Legal Lohengrin »

Andrew Kaczynski @BuzzFeedAndrew Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn saying he wants any federal aid to Oklahoma for disaster offset with cuts elsewhere.[/break1]co/Z8sw6pXXPc]http://t.co/Z8sw6pXXPcI'm sure the parents with kids in the morgue are glad Coburn sprung into action to defend his Republican ideology. I'm sure their first thought was "I hope this doesn't impact the federal budget!"Seriously, where do they find these monsters?

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#40

Post by TexasFilly »

Hokay, I will admit flipping between CNN and MSNBC this afternoon, and they were replaying the identical stuff ad nauseum. So I switched to Faux, and this lady was on the phone with the Faux anchor, while talking back and forth with her fambly, combing through the wreckage of their home. At one point, she says "Wow, that's great!" and explained to the Faux anchor that her husband had just recovered his Longhorn's cap! :lol:
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#41

Post by TollandRCR »

Some of the 19th century farmhouses in the Hill Country of Texas had storm shelters that also served as root cellars and as shelters during Indian raids. My wife's grandmother had one such house and claimed to remember a raid in which she and her family hid in the cellar. Fort Mason was built in 1851 to deal with the Indians, and for a time it was commanded by Robert E. Lee. The Indians were still a problem after he departed. It was his last command with the U.S. Army.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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#42

Post by mimi »

Andrew Kaczynski @BuzzFeedAndrew Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn saying he wants any federal aid to Oklahoma for disaster offset with cuts elsewhere.[/break1]co/Z8sw6pXXPc]http://t.co/Z8sw6pXXPcI'm sure the parents with kids in the morgue are glad Coburn sprung into action to defend his Republican ideology. I'm sure their first thought was "I hope this doesn't impact the federal budget!"Seriously, where do they find these monsters?Atrios ‏@Atrios 1hi suggest offsetting supplemental tornado aid with tom coburn's pension :-bd

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#43

Post by Emma »

I would think several times about moving back there if I were...anyone.Yeah, I've been on a rant about this most of the afternoon. The developers who are building all those tract homes should be required to build storm cellars for every X number of homes they build. Ditto for the schools having storm cellars. But OK doesn't like the gubmint telling biznesses that they can't put people in death's way with their products. I wonder how many of the OK Congressional delegation voted against Sandy relief?Two.





But the one that represents this area:





"There's clearly a federal responsibility to act," said Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.). "We have a national interest in getting this region on its feet as quickly as possible."

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#44

Post by Emma »

Did every Oklahoma school have a cellar where students and teachers could go for safety?It's being reported the seven children found dead so far had drowned in a "lower" part of the school.

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#45

Post by GreatGrey »

Today's Oklahoma storm (photo), courtesy of Dept of Defense Exchange (PX) Services.


Attached files
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#46

Post by MN-Skeptic »

On our news tonight they were talking about basements in Oklahoma. In Minnesota, most houses have basements. In Oklahoma, they explained, they have clay soil which will retain water and cause water problems with basements. Also, bedrock can be a problem. It's expensive to blast through bedrock to build a basement. So apparently basements are less common in that area of Oklahoma.Our news also talked about safe rooms in schools. The big problem is the expense. They mentioned a couple of schools which have recently been hit by tornadoes. When they rebuilt, they added safe rooms. Too bad it's not part of building codes.
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#47

Post by Dallasite »

Moore got hit a few years ago too. Nearly leveled the town then also.
Edit: May 3, 1999 an F-5 tornado hit that area.
I drove through Moore the morning following that storm. I hadn't heard about it and hit stand-still traffic on I35 south of the town. The truck I was driving had no radio so after about an hour of not moving I got out and asked someone if they knew what was going on. When we finally started creeping noorth, we drove through the area the storm had hit. It was frightening. I have never seen devastation like that before or since. Seeing it in person gives one a completely different perspective than on TV or pictures.
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#48

Post by TexasFilly »

On our news tonight they were talking about basements in Oklahoma. In Minnesota, most houses have basements. In Oklahoma, they explained, they have clay soil which will retain water and cause water problems with basements. Also, bedrock can be a problem. It's expensive to blast through bedrock to build a basement. So apparently basements are less common in that area of Oklahoma.Our news also talked about safe rooms in schools. The big problem is the expense. They mentioned a couple of schools which have recently been hit by tornadoes. When they rebuilt, they added safe rooms. Too bad it's not part of building codes.Yes, that is a problem in Texas also, which is why basements are such a rarity in most parts of the state. Nevertheless, if you are in the middle of Tornado Alley, you'd better damned well have some kind of underground place to go when the tornado sirens go off. The school boards may have thought safe rooms were too "expensive" at the time, but now that there are dozens of dead little kids, maybe not so much. Like everything else with these wingnuts, it's only important when it happens to them. Now they have the blood of small children on their hands to save a few bucks. I hope they sleep well at night.
I love the poorly educated!!!

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#49

Post by mimi »

More Damaging Tornadoes Forecasted For Tuesday





The threat area on Tuesday looked to be east and west of Oklahoma City, according to Weather Channel meteorologist Kevin Roth. Cities in Texas, Arkansas and Louisiana could be affected."Tornadoes, damaging wind gusts and large hail are possible throughout the threat area," Roth said, as quoted by NBC.[/break1]talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/more-damaging-tornadoes-forecasted-for-tuesday]http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... or-tuesday








be careful out there.

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#50

Post by TollandRCR »

Chicago Tribune May 21, 2013 [link]Oklahoma City tornado: At least 91 feared killed by massive twister,http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi- ... 0720.story[/link]





Rescuers fear that another 40 bodies are under the rubble. The search area is massive. Storms today could prevent recovery of these bodies until a later day.





ETA New York Times May 20, 2013 [link]Vast Oklahoma Tornado Kills at Least 91,http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/us/to ... .html?_r=1&[/link]


Amy Elliott, the spokeswoman for the Oklahoma City medical examiner, said at least 91 people had died, including the children, and officials said that toll was likely to climb. Hospitals reported at least 145 people injured, 70 of them children.





Plaza Towers Elementary School in Moore was reduced to a pile of twisted metal and toppled walls. Rescue workers were able to pull several children from the rubble, but on Monday evening crews were still struggling to cut through fallen beams and clear debris amid reports that dozens of students were trapped. At Briarwood Elementary School in Oklahoma City, on the border with Moore, cars were thrown through the facade and the roof was torn off.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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