Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

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Flatpointhigh
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Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#1

Post by Flatpointhigh » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:49 am

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... occupation
Washington (AP) -- President Donald Trump has pardoned two ranchers whose case sparked the armed occupation of a national wildlife refuge in Oregon.

Dwight and Steven Hammond were convicted in 2012 of intentionally and maliciously setting fires on public lands. The arson crime carried a minimum prison sentence of five years, but a sympathetic federal judge, on his last day before retirement, decided the penalty was too stiff and gave the father and son much lighter prison terms.

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RVInit
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#2

Post by RVInit » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:52 am

Anyone still think I was full of shit when I claimed this would happen? I'm not trying to rub anyone's face in it. I'm just fucken pissed. Even though I knew this was going to happen. Things are about to get fucken real now. Real fucked up, that is.
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bob
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#3

Post by bob » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:58 am

The presser blames "the previous administration" for "an overzealous appeal." :roll:

And:
The evidence at trial regarding the Hammonds’ responsibility for the fire was conflicting, and the jury acquitted them on most of the charges.
They were innocent, with some exceptions.
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#4

Post by Kendra » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:16 am

bob wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:58 am
The presser blames "the previous administration" for "an overzealous appeal." :roll:

And:
The evidence at trial regarding the Hammonds’ responsibility for the fire was conflicting, and the jury acquitted them on most of the charges.
They were innocent, with some exceptions.
:confused:

Didn't they plead guilty in anticipation of the jury finding them guilty on all charges?

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#5

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:19 am

Trump knows how to play his base.
„Er aber, sag’s ihm, er kann mich im Arsche lecken!“ - J.W. Goethe - Götz von Berlichingen

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#6

Post by Kendra » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:19 am

Could anyone who really does the twitter thing send links to stories to the media about the Hammonds like this one?

http://www.wweek.com/news/2016/01/13/ra ... -ferguson/



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bob
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#7

Post by bob » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:23 am

There was a partial verdict (some guilty counts, some not guilty counts), so they pleaded guilty to the charges the jury already had convicted them of (to minimize their sentence).

In other words, the expected performance from the propoganda secretary.
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#8

Post by AndyinPA » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:24 am

We are sooooooooooooooooooooo far down the rabbit hole.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#9

Post by Kendra » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:26 am

bob wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:23 am
There was a partial verdict (some guilty counts, some not guilty counts), so they pleaded guilty to the charges the jury already had convicted them of.

In other words, the expected performance from the propoganda secretary.
:thumbs:

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#10

Post by neeneko » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:26 am

Huh, I wonder who was whispering in his ear to get those jerks on his radar.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#11

Post by Flatpointhigh » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:30 am

Kendra wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:19 am
Could anyone who really does the twitter thing send links to stories to the media about the Hammonds like this one?

http://www.wweek.com/news/2016/01/13/ra ... -ferguson/


done

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#12

Post by Kendra » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:31 am

Flatpointhigh wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:30 am
Kendra wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:19 am
Could anyone who really does the twitter thing send links to stories to the media about the Hammonds like this one?

http://www.wweek.com/news/2016/01/13/ra ... -ferguson/


https://twitter .com/kylegriffin1/status/1016693530205544448
done
Thank you.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#13

Post by pdt97801 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:34 am

Well a person can thank Rep. Greg Walden,R. for pushing for this. But than he also was backing the bundy's for cheap no cost cattle grazing.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#14

Post by Lilslice » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:35 am

neeneko wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:26 am
Huh, I wonder who was whispering in his ear to get those jerks on his radar.
Roger Stone :madguy:
At this point, if a clown invited me into the woods, I would just go.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#15

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:35 am

neeneko wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:26 am
Huh, I wonder who was whispering in his ear to get those jerks on his radar.
It was hardly a whisper. A bunch of people from Oregon have been asking for a long time, including:

https://www.argusobserver.com/news/wald ... 98a12.html
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#16

Post by mmmirele » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:37 am

Aw @#$%÷×!*&^!!

Seriously, way to encourage more bad behavior.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#17

Post by RVInit » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:38 am

mmmirele wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:37 am
Aw @#$%÷×!*&^!!

Seriously, way to encourage more bad behavior.
And that is exactly what is about to happen.
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#18

Post by Suranis » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:40 am

I wonder who donated how much to the Trump foundation for this.
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#19

Post by neeneko » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:44 am

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:35 am
It was hardly a whisper. A bunch of people from Oregon have been asking for a long time, including:
People yes, but who that he actually listens to?

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#20

Post by ObjectiveDoubter » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:04 pm

It's definitely not all black and white here.

My longtime friends who live on a horse farm outside Portland in a rural ranching community, thought the sentencing of the Hammonds was more than heavy-handed and that the stance of the federal government in the prosecution was over-reaching and vindictive. Both are are highly educated, life-long liberal activists.

They will be happy about the pardon but find it, as we all do, unfortunate that the pardoning of the Hammonds will not only serve to feed the vile Trump base but to encourage the Bundys of this world to act out more.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#21

Post by fierceredpanda » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:06 pm

ObjectiveDoubter wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:04 pm
It's definitely not all black and white here.

My longtime friends who live on a horse farm outside Portland in a rural ranching community, thought the sentencing of the Hammonds was more than heavy-handed and that the stance of the federal government in the prosecution was over-reaching and vindictive. Both are are highly educated, life-long liberal activists.

They will be happy about the pardon but find it, as we all do, unfortunate that the pardoning of the Hammonds will not only serve to feed the vile Trump base but to encourage the Bundys of this world to act out more.
Your friends are confusing a pardon with commutation of sentence. I agree that the sentencing of the Hammons did appear overly harsh and vindictive. (Hey, I am a defense lawyer, after all.) But they both pleaded guilty. The remedy here is a commutation of their remaining sentences while letting the convictions stand.
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#22

Post by bob » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:21 pm

fierceredpanda wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:06 pm
I agree that the sentencing of the Hammons did appear overly harsh and vindictive. (Hey, I am a defense lawyer, after all.) But they both pleaded guilty. The remedy here is a commutation of their remaining sentences while letting the convictions stand.
Too also: They pleaded guilty to a sentence with a mandatory minimum (imposed by Congress). The harshness of the sentence was not for the judge to resolve, nor were the prosecutors "unjust" for appealing an unauthorized sentence.

That the president chose pardons over commutation is telling.

If "conflicting evidence" and draconian sentencing was the standard for pardons, then the federal prisons should all be empty.
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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#23

Post by Sageandcows » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Is it a pardon or clemency? I thought the White House release called it executive clemency.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#24

Post by TheNewSaint » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:29 pm

This is the other side of Trump's war on brown people. While we're deporting lifelong Americans who've done little or nothing wrong, thoroughly nasty white people like the Hammonds get leniency.
This bramble need not be traversed.

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Re: Trump PARDONS THE HAMMONDS

#25

Post by bob » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:31 pm

Sageandcows wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:26 pm
Is it a pardon or clemency? I thought the White House release called it executive clemency.
White House wrote:Today, President Donald J. Trump signed Executive Grants of Clemency (Full Pardons) for Dwight Lincoln Hammond, Jr., and his son, Steven Hammond.
* * *
TheNewSaint wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:29 pm
This is the other side of Trump's war on brown people. While we're deporting lifelong Americans who've done little or nothing wrong, thoroughly nasty white people like the Hammonds get leniency.
This: Federal prisons are full of people of color who might have a few thoughts on the justness of mandatory minimums.

Even the Kardashian-touted Johnson didn't receive a pardon.
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