Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#51

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:43 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:37 am
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:35 am
I wonder if MikeDunford has had a change of heart in the last day, especially since he has now had a chance to see what's in the testimony.
I believe he said he did, once someone brought the GOP leaks.
No he hasn't. This is MikeDunford's last post on the subject:
Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:05 pm
RoadScholar wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:57 pm
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:28 pm
I'm with DiFi on this. Sorry MiDun.

The long term benefits are -- truth and exposing lying Goopers.
Yeah. That.

This will show how sleazy the GOP misrepresentations have been. Folks can compare what they said about the testimony, and what the Fox News spin has been, to the actual testimony.
To borrow RC's phrase, "what world have you been watching?" Who is it going to show? Fox will barely mention it; the Fox-only set isn't going to bother reading it. And while there are benefits to preaching to the choir - it's how you get them to sing - I can't see how this particular move nets anything that's likely to be beneficial in the long haul.

And as far as what the GOP has been doing with unilateral moves, if it was wrong for the Nunes and Grassley to make unilateral moves without the Democrats on their committee, then it was wrong for Feinstein to respond with her own unilateral moves.



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#52

Post by pipistrelle » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:48 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:43 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:37 am
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:35 am
I wonder if MikeDunford has had a change of heart in the last day, especially since he has now had a chance to see what's in the testimony.
I believe he said he did, once someone brought the GOP leaks.
No he hasn't. This is MikeDunford's last post on the subject:
Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:05 pm
RoadScholar wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:57 pm

Yeah. That.

This will show how sleazy the GOP misrepresentations have been. Folks can compare what they said about the testimony, and what the Fox News spin has been, to the actual testimony.
To borrow RC's phrase, "what world have you been watching?" Who is it going to show? Fox will barely mention it; the Fox-only set isn't going to bother reading it. And while there are benefits to preaching to the choir - it's how you get them to sing - I can't see how this particular move nets anything that's likely to be beneficial in the long haul.

And as far as what the GOP has been doing with unilateral moves, if it was wrong for the Nunes and Grassley to make unilateral moves without the Democrats on their committee, then it was wrong for Feinstein to respond with her own unilateral moves.
I was referring to this: http://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 36#p947536, at 4:31 yesterday.



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#53

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 am

Thanks, pips. I don't follow all of the threads so I missed this.



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#54

Post by Foggy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:10 am

I like how she waited until some of the furor had died down over Michael Wolff's book.

"Having a dull day? Well here's a little something I have stashed away." :mrgreen:


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#55

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:36 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 am
Thanks, pips. I don't follow all of the threads so I missed this.
Yeah, sorry, I lost track of which thread I was in. I've moved, but not an enormous distance. Some of that's going to be differences of opinion regarding the importance of public revelation of the information; some of it will probably be differences in what priorities I think are most important to defend. It's gonna take a Slarti-post to explain. I'll try to get that up soon, but I've got an appointment to go spend money to make my mouth hurt in a little more than an hour, so no idea if I'll get to/through it by then.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#56

Post by Volkonski » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:37 am



The New York Times

Verified account

@nytimes
2h
2 hours ago


More
President Trump's longtime lawyer sues @BuzzFeed and Fusion GPS, the firm behind the Russia dossier


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#57

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:37 am

Mikedunford wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:36 am
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 am
Thanks, pips. I don't follow all of the threads so I missed this.
Yeah, sorry, I lost track of which thread I was in. I've moved, but not an enormous distance. Some of that's going to be differences of opinion regarding the importance of public revelation of the information; some of it will probably be differences in what priorities I think are most important to defend. It's gonna take a Slarti-post to explain. I'll try to get that up soon, but I've got an appointment to go spend money to make my mouth hurt in a little more than an hour, so no idea if I'll get to/through it by then.
:nooo:



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#58

Post by Suranis » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:42 am

Another Twit Thread about the transcript that you really should read.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9508 ... 32096.html

I'm down to line 43, which includes this nugget
Speaking of the media, put down any sharp or fragile objects. You may want to throw something after this one...

FGPS and Steele had begun briefing media outlets by late September...

...including the NY Times...

The same NY Times that then ran a 10/31 story clearing Trump
I've said it before, but fuck the NY Times, they have some good instincts but then they vomit up shit on a regular basis...

Anyway, read.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#59

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:13 am

Suranis wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:42 am

I've said it before, but fuck the NY Times, they have some good instincts but then they vomit up shit on a regular basis...

Anyway, read.
I've been pissed at the NYT since Judith Miller and I'm not letting it go.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#60

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:17 am

I found it interesting that Simpson was asked if FGPS was paid more if they could deliver extra helpings of salacious. I'm almost halfway through. I've heard the peepee tape comes up approximately page 165.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#61

Post by Kendra » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:18 am

Suranis wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:42 am
Another Twit Thread about the transcript that you really should read.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/9508 ... 32096.html

I'm down to line 43, which includes this nugget
Speaking of the media, put down any sharp or fragile objects. You may want to throw something after this one...

FGPS and Steele had begun briefing media outlets by late September...

...including the NY Times...

The same NY Times that then ran a 10/31 story clearing Trump
I've said it before, but fuck the NY Times, they have some good instincts but then they vomit up shit on a regular basis...

Anyway, read.
Thanks to you and Dolly posting these links. They are so much easier to follow for non-twitter persons like me.



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#62

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 am

Thanks to Dolly for the reader app. Now we know why Graham and Grassley have toadied up to Trump. They are in this big time with their direct knowledge plus any kompromat Trump may have on them. As someone mentioned upthread, Feinstein's timing was perfect. Blumenthal was going on shows mentioning indictments, Fire and Fury was creating fire and fury, and in the brief lull, BAM!!!!


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#63

Post by Kendra » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:29 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:23 am
Thanks to Dolly for the reader app. Now we know why Graham and Grassley have toadied up to Trump. They are in this big time with their direct knowledge plus any kompromat Trump may have on them. As someone mentioned upthread, Feinstein's timing was perfect. Blumenthal was going on shows mentioning indictments, Fire and Fury was creating fire and fury, and in the brief lull, BAM!!!!
Are we now seeing the reasons the Republicans have taken such a hard line these last few months?



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#64

Post by Addie » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:43 am

Mother Jones: The Lioness in Winter


¡Estiveo! come home.

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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#65

Post by AndyinPA » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:55 am

Absolutely thanks to Dolly for the links. I have read only the second one so far, but it's enough to see how complicit the republican party is in covering up for 45.

This wasn't classified information. I think DiFi would never have done this without a lot of thought to consequences. I think she was pushed to this by Grassley and Graham's action last week in referring Steele to the FBI. It's clear just how partisan that move was (not that it wasn't already considered that).

I'm not even sure we can call ourselves a democracy any more. And Comey should rot in hell. :x



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#66

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:59 am

In the interests of keeping different things clear, I'll do a post now about where I'm at with the

1: Why I'm so concerned about the Senate as an Institution.

I've thought for a while now that the worst harm that the Republicans have done to the country over the last 10-15 years has been the damage they've done to democratic institutions. It's a harm that's harder to see than a lot of the other, more tangible, stuff. But it's also one that's harder to fix, and that at the same time makes it harder to undo the other things.

One of the areas that they've harmed - with the harm beginning in the 90s - is in converting congressional investigations into tools for partisan political gain. There are times (Watergate; Iran-Contra; Russian influence on elections) when we need either a bipartisan or fully independent investigator to tell the American people what happened, what went wrong, and what (if anything) can be done to fix it. Right now, we don't have that ability. The Republicans in Congress aren't allowing it to happen there, and they and their media allies are doing their best to ensure that whatever the independent counsel reveals isn't going to be believed by the Republican base. That's bad.

Maybe we'll never be able to recover that ability, even to the limited extent it existed before now. It's possible that the ship has sailed. It's clear that recovering any ability to work bipartisanly will require a substantial exercise of leadership by both parties. One party will, while in the minority, have to be able to offer to work together in good faith rather than simply banking wrongs to use to fire up their base as a means of regaining the majority; the other will have to be willing to accept that when in the majority. So, yeah, it's quite plausibly a crack dream. But I think it's a goal that shouldn't be sacrificed.

And I think it's important enough that my default position is to oppose moves that push us farther from that point unless there are extremely compelling reasons for the move. Establishing a norm that either party can unilaterally choose to selectively release information (IMO) pushes things away from effective investigations and toward dysfunction, and does so in a way that will be harder to fix for future investigations.

2: Why I'm unpersuaded, frustrated, and angered by "the Republicans have shown us that these tactics are the way to victory" arguments.

A Republican-like party advancing progressive policies instead of regressive policies might be an improvement on the current situation, but it's not an outcome that I can view as a "victory." It's a defeat. In many ways, it's a defeat that's worse than what we're experiencing now.

I see tactics that involve changing or disregarding rules to obtain power as harmful to the country in and of themselves, in addition to being harmful because they let the Republicans advance harmful policies. I don't see how those tactics become less harmful if they are used to allow Democrats to advance helpful policies.

3: Why, despite 1 & 2, I've moved (some) from my full-throated opposition to the release from yesterday.

The first two points are the reasons that I'm almost always going to be opposed to politicians who do things that flaunt prior institutional norms. For me to budge on that, I've got to be convinced that there's a compelling reason beyond short-term political gain to do it.

Tek's mention of selective releases allowed me to make a connection that wasn't made when Stern's more general mention of "truth" failed to penetrate my skull. Full public release of material is a counter to selective release of information. More than that, it's probably the only available counter even when there's little chance that the other side will read the full information (I withdraw and apologize for my prior comment suggesting otherwise). That's a compelling reason beyond short term political gain.

4: Why none of the above considered the content of the release.

I'm relatively confident that there's nothing in there that Mueller doesn't have access to - and he's probably had access to most (if not all) of it for months. So I'm not sure what effect the content of the release has on changing anything about the administration or its hold on power. As I just mentioned, I do see the benefit of providing full material to counter selective release. But that would remain true regardless of the specific content.

Too, also, given that the interview is with Steele's boss, rather than with someone providing fully independent confirmation of Steele's findings, I'm also inclined to read the transcript with a degree of skepticism.




But I'll (maybe) have more on that later; I'm literally off to the dentist now.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#67

Post by RVInit » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 am

So, Diane Feinstein should fiercely protect democratic norms that Republicans have already destroyed. :nope:

There is nothing left to protect when it comes to this issue. Republicans have destroyed it. Completely.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#68

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 am

OK, Mike, but surely you can see how playing fair and losing elections can get old and make playing dirty look appealing...


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#69

Post by RVInit » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:07 am

If she had done this under different circumstances, I would agree. But, she did this only after Republicans had clearly leaked not just misleading information, but outright lies. Not to mention the referral of Steele to the FBI. That was over the top. She needed to do this because at some point you just look like a stoopid idiot while the other person is bashing away.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#70

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:10 am

And Sen. Feinstein has been awarded her Trump nickname - Sneaky!


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#71

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:14 am

RoadScholar wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 am
OK, Mike, but surely you can see how playing fair and losing elections can get old and make playing dirty look appealing...
Absolutely. That's one of the reasons I think it's important too fight that urge.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#72

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:17 am

RVInit wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:03 am
So, Diane Feinstein should fiercely protect democratic norms that Republicans have already destroyed. :nope:

There is nothing left to protect when it comes to this issue. Republicans have destroyed it. Completely.
This is the kind of thing that sends my blood pressure shooting up. Every time.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#73

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:40 am

Mike

I am unconvinced.

The Senate, like the Supreme Court and state legislatures, is simply another institution which the Republicans seek to control regardless of what the rules used to be in order to dominate American politics when they are the minority party. So I find your reasoning to be based on a set of old "norms" which will only allow Democrats to continue to be slaughtered.

DiFi did exactly the right thing to expose Republicans. And exposure is going to be necessary over and over again. WHen Democrats have wrested by majority control because they are in the majority, then we can talk about the niceties of a Gentlemen's Club. Not now.



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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#74

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 am

Just my arrogant opinion, but I'm through with Mr. Nice Guy finishing last.


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Re: Diane Feinstein releases the FusionGPS transcripts

#75

Post by Kendra » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:49 am




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