Election Results 11/8/2016

TexasFilly
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#426

Post by TexasFilly » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:03 pm

Woodworker, I hope you take some time and reconsider. I think TFB will be more important than ever.


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Suranis
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#427

Post by Suranis » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:08 pm

MsDaisy wrote:Democrats are their own worst enemy. Long before 2018 republicans will have impeached Trump and put the evangelical creationist in the White House. I believe that's the only reason most of them held their nose and supported him. Once he took the nomination it was the only was they could stay in power.They even got the FBI to help them do it. :madguy:
The same thought occured to me today as I was walking. Trump has the Trump Uni trial coming up this month, and its very possible that they might suddenly discover that *shock* there is gambling going on here the president has been involved in corruption or something, and kick him out in favour of his VP. Which would not be an improvement.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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esseff44
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#428

Post by esseff44 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:10 pm

Yes, please hang around woodworker. I don't think I will be able to turn on a radio or TV or check in the usual websites other than this one. It's like comfort food for the spirit. It's a little island of sanity in the midst of chaos and uncertainty.



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RVInit
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#429

Post by RVInit » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:12 pm

phaseolus wrote: Gonna have to disagree with you on this one -- maybe I'm biased, but I believe much of the perception of corruption was engineered by her political opponents. (Though I'll admit some of her coziness with the same investment banks who almost crashed the world economy hasn't really helped her cause any.)

Unfortunately for the country and for anyone who's not a Republican, I think one of the lessons the right's known for a while now is it's possible to create an aura of sleaze to cover almost any political opponent, an aura that's impervious to facts. It's hard to defend against that. What really sunk Clinton is the fact that she's been on the national stage for so long.
I agree. I will admit that when Bill Clinton was President I was just starting to calm down my raging Republicanism. My path to Non-Affiliated/Independent was in it's infancy at that time. I bought into all the crap about the Clintons being "criminal". It would take all day to describe my path to Independent status and how I eventually came to evaluate and research political candidates - I will spare everyone. I actually took a look at all the "evidence" that Ken Starr and others claimed to have on the Clintons and realized it was zip, nada, nothing. One of my sisters and I had a conversation where she stated that since there was so much investigation, there MUST be guilt after I pointed out to her that all the millions of dollars that were spent on investigating the Clintons have turned up nothing other than Bill Clinton does what a fairly sizable collection of married men do - cheat on their wives. BFD. We don't jail them for that. My biggest complaint about Bill Clinton is that he tended to wait to see what the polls say about something before he would act. I didn't see the same in HRC. She was more of a leader in my opinion, much better than Bill ever was. She was a great Senator and SoS. She would have been a great President, of that I have no doubt.


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Suranis
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#430

Post by Suranis » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:14 pm

Please hang around Woodworker.


Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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Slim Cognito
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#431

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:18 pm

Jocelyn9596 wrote:
AgentOrangeTabby wrote:
Adrianinflorida wrote:Watching the CBC News coverage of this. They made the point American media isn't. If Trump prevails, he now has to put the promises he made a reality. Many of them will hurt the country, and many won't happen, even with a GOP Congress. His damage of the GOP is going to be in slow motion. Unfortunately, his damage to the country will be, as well.
Yep, how will he explain either his policies' failure or his failure to enact them as promised without Democrats' mendacity to blame? Trumplicans now expect BIG change from their guy, per his BIG promises. What happens when one by one he either fails to deliver or inevitably delivers only fucked-up change? Following tonight's 3% USDs drop, within moments, how many billions has he already wiped from the US economy?

Now I really foresee the Republican Party splintering pending congressional reaction to Trump administration ludicrousness. Will it be complicit in dismantling the US economy, credit & credibility, or will it take on one of its own? Which is why I bet at least a few congressional republicans feel a little ambivalent tonight about such a triumphant GOP sweep in the party's current condition. Because how does a party by now so defined by opposition start crafting actual policy, especially under such enormous expectations of unrealistic & unbridled success?

For reasons I can't articulate better than that, Im surprised to feel faintly equanimous about the outcome, sensing a long-term silver lining in it all for progressive prerogatives (blithely assuming the damage we're in for isn't irrecoverable). After years & years of hysterical GOP, fear-mongering, petty nit-picking, sabotaging & draconian chicken littling, maybe it's like swing voters have figured, 'Fucking enough already; now show us YOU can do better.' And representative democracy means respecting the majority's prerogative to be stupid, even when it approaches self-sabotage. White America is still rapidly shrinking, and as an RN I've witnessed how impressively the dying can rally as the approaching end picks up speed. Today's outcome heralds conservative America's final chance to prove ideological viability in a crowded world and post-industrial domestic economy.

And when it inevitably bombs that chance, I just :pray: enough of America's foundation remains intact enough for rebuilding her to be worth it.
Trump practically came out and promised them no change whatsoever that would benefit them when he announced Giuliani as Attorney General and Gingrich as Secretary of State! How fucking ignorant can these people be? Obviously far more than I had ever believed. I really didn't think we had such a high number of bigoted, backwards people in this country.
How long will they give Trump, the magic man, to return their jobs, build the wall, deport millions (oh wait, Preibus is already walking that one back) and grow the military? Will they blame Trump or blame Ryan (or whomever) for not giving him the go-ahead? How long will they wait for their great new health care plan before realizing the republicans never could put one together that didn't look pretty much like Obamacare?


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Slim Cognito
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#432

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:19 pm

Suranis wrote:
MsDaisy wrote:Democrats are their own worst enemy. Long before 2018 republicans will have impeached Trump and put the evangelical creationist in the White House. I believe that's the only reason most of them held their nose and supported him. Once he took the nomination it was the only was they could stay in power.They even got the FBI to help them do it. :madguy:
The same thought occured to me today as I was walking. Trump has the Trump Uni trial coming up this month, and its very possible that they might suddenly discover that *shock* there is gambling going on here the president has been involved in corruption or something, and kick him out in favour of his VP. Which would not be an improvement.
Don't know how likely, but one person was afraid Trump's lawyer would simply postpone this month's trial until after the inauguration when AG Rudy would wipe it out.


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RVInit
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#433

Post by RVInit » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:21 pm

Slim Cognito wrote: How long will they give Trump, the magic man, to return their jobs, build the wall, deport millions (oh wait, Preibus is already walking that one back) and grow the military? Will they blame Trump or blame Ryan (or whomever) for not giving him the go-ahead? How long will they wait for their great new health care plan before realizing the republicans never could put one together that didn't look pretty much like Obamacare?
They won't care. They got what they wanted - someone who is just like them. They won't even pay attention to what he does.


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esseff44
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#434

Post by esseff44 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:28 pm

Another huge disappointment. California not only did not vote to repeal the death penalty, a proposition to speed up executions passed by less than one per cent.

So, yes, we are in some kind of regression.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cal ... 0b02caa779



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BillTheCat
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#435

Post by BillTheCat » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:31 pm

esseff44 wrote:Another huge disappointment. California not only did not vote to repeal the death penalty, a proposition to speed up executions passed by less than one per cent.

So, yes, we are in some kind of regression.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cal ... 0b02caa779

Well, to be fair, most of our good props passed.

I'd trade those and 64 for Clinton in a heartbeat.


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esseff44
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#436

Post by esseff44 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:39 pm

Another one of the threats we have to worry about is the Trump promise to end sanctuary cities. That could really hurt a lot of people here. They could try, but I don't think they could change the reality of it being a sanctuary. I expect the population needed sanctuary will grow vastly.



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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#437

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:44 pm

TexasFilly wrote:Woodworker, I hope you take some time and reconsider. I think TFB will be more important than ever.
:like: and the same to Road Scholar.


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esseff44
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#438

Post by esseff44 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:55 pm

More disappointing news: Darrell Issa kept his seat in Congress. Just barely. What will he do without having Hillary and Obama to 'investigate'?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... keeps-seat



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Dr. Caligari
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#439

Post by Dr. Caligari » Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:58 pm

esseff44 wrote:There will be no Democratic wave in 2018. It is structurally nearly impossible. The Congressional Districts are engineered to make sure the GOP stays in charge of their districts in spite of Dems overall numeric superiority. And Dems do not vote in midterms anyway. You can depend on the red state folks keeping it for a good long while. Yes, the wheel will turn but I doubt that I will see it in my lifetime.
The same structural barriers existed in 2006, when there was a huge Democratic wave in the midterm elections. All that is necessary is another serious recession, and Trump's trade policies, if he follows them, will almost guarantee that.


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Suranis
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#440

Post by Suranis » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:01 pm



Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.

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bob
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#441

Post by bob » Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:55 pm

esseff44 wrote:What will he do without having Hillary and Obama to 'investigate'?
I had a similar thought about Klayman.


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TexasFilly
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#442

Post by TexasFilly » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:03 pm

These assholes will continue to investigate the Clintons for years. The Clinton Foundation, allegations of pay to play, etc. Rudy at DOJ will be feeding the Issas and Chaffetzes for years. Let's revisit Benghazi.

Here's the rub. The GOP owns all of this now. The inevitable clusterfuck that their "policies" will bring will be on their heads now. If they were smart, they'd get to work on running the country. But recent history has shown Republicans are horrible at governing. God Bless America.


I love the poorly educated!!!

I believe Anita Hill! I believe Dr. Ford!

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esseff44
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#443

Post by esseff44 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:28 pm

TexasFilly wrote:These assholes will continue to investigate the Clintons for years. The Clinton Foundation, allegations of pay to play, etc. Rudy at DOJ will be feeding the Issas and Chaffetzes for years. Let's revisit Benghazi.

Here's the rub. The GOP owns all of this now. The inevitable clusterfuck that their "policies" will bring will be on their heads now. If they were smart, they'd get to work on running the country. But recent history has shown Republicans are horrible at governing. God Bless America.
And the pill is even harder to swallow knowing that Clinton won the most votes just as Gore did. Some political historians posit that the 2000 loss in the Electoral College and SCOTUS decision which was in conflict with the majority of voters was the cleaver that divided the nation so clearly and irreparably. Yes, it is our system, but it does not allow for healing or unity. It only deepens resentments. Our system is broken and we do not have the tools to fix it. Patriotic rhetoric is not going to fill in the cracks. The wounds are going to be reopened every time Congresses passes another bill that goes against the will of the majority and erases the progress we made and denies us the dream of the progress that we could have made in the coming years.



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bob
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#444

Post by bob » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:54 pm

The popular-vote interstate compact is looking much more appealing.


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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#445

Post by SuzieC » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:04 pm

Count me in with those who are going to withdraw from all cable and internet news sites and meditate in a cave for the next 4 years. I will get my news only from TFB.



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RVInit
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#446

Post by RVInit » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:43 pm

SuzieC wrote:Count me in with those who are going to withdraw from all cable and internet news sites and meditate in a cave for the next 4 years. I will get my news only from TFB.
:yeah: Same here. I will not be visiting any news sites. Of course, the management of the company that I am doing work for just put a large screen TV in the employee break room. They did not leave employees any way to change the channel. They set it for Faux "news". I can't even stand to go get coffee now.


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phaseolus
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#447

Post by phaseolus » Wed Nov 09, 2016 5:36 pm

RVInit wrote:... Of course, the management of the company that I am doing work for just put a large screen TV in the employee break room. They did not leave employees any way to change the channel. They set it for Faux "news". I can't even stand to go get coffee now.
Smartphone remote control app



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RVInit
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#448

Post by RVInit » Wed Nov 09, 2016 6:01 pm

phaseolus wrote:
RVInit wrote:... Of course, the management of the company that I am doing work for just put a large screen TV in the employee break room. They did not leave employees any way to change the channel. They set it for Faux "news". I can't even stand to go get coffee now.
Smartphone remote control app
Thanks for the tip. I will research which one(s) will work for the TV in the breakroom! Holy crap, I'm gonna make some people mad. I don't care. If I find an app that works I will keep changing it as long as they keep tuning it to Faux - I cannot STAND listening to anyone on that channel. They are completely out of their minds. Which, of course, is exactly why we had so many voting for the Orange ShitBag - all the hypnotized Faux "news" watchers.


"I know that human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
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Pompeed
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#449

Post by Pompeed » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:22 pm

woodworker wrote:I am bowing out of the Fogbow and I don't know if I will return. Ditto involvement in pretty much everything. With this Congress, the Trump administration and the new justices he will appoint, every piece of social, economic and civil rights progress that was made since 1932 is going to be reversed. Commerce Clause legislation, e.g., labor laws, the EPA, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Voting Rights, are all going to be eviscerated. Clarence Thomas' view of the Constitution will take over. Social Security - revised and privatized, Medicare/Medicaid will be transitioned to block grants and then eliminated. Labor rights - workers will have no rights.

Economically, I think we are looking at a new Greater Depression. Business capital investment will plummet. Elimination of corporate taxes, the estate tax, capital gains, dividend/interest income taxes will all be gone. Corporate profits stored overseas will be allowed to come back tax free and will be dividended out. Federal tax receipts will drop off a cliff and the only way to "balance" the budget, whilst increasing spending on the military and cops and prisons will be to cut all social spending. Normally I would say that repealing the ACA (there will be no replacement) would also blow a huge hole in the federal budget, bu I think that will be addressed by capping/block granting/eliminating any federal healthcare reimbursement at all.

Right to work will be the law of the land and unions are going to be killed. Food stamps, etc., will be eliminated (although congress may continue shoveling the money for a while directly to the farmers).

Social progress: Roe v Wade- gone; gay marriage - gone; affirmative action - gone;, etc., etc.

China isn't going to want to continue buying out debt and I think it will instead start selling off it's dollar holdings, as will other large holders. Trade wars, and actual wars, coming.

In summary, after Bundy Oregon and this election, I have given up on our country. It was a nice democracy while it lasted, but it ended last night. I know comparisons to Nazi Germany are too easily thrown around, but I don't see that there are going to be any restrictions on Trump/the crazies. If a Federal Judge says Trump can't do something, I can very easily see him just ignoring it.

Our checks and balances only work if you have rational people of some good faith in the system. I no longer believe we do. I don't have children and I wasn't planning on counting on Social Security. The new diktat will only really personally affect me because of the ACA. But I mourn for the demise of a once great democracy.

Au Revoir.


I agree with every sentence written here.

There isn't any part of the progress of my adult life time which will not be rolled back to the early part of the 20th century.

Welcome to the Dark Ages of the United States of America.

Result simply confirms my intentions to leave and not look back.

There are "better" places to live in the World which will not be run by Trump and the minions of liars, serial adulterers and political criminals he intends to put into Cabinet positions.



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Estiveo
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Re: Election Results 11/8/2016

#450

Post by Estiveo » Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:28 pm

It's the Apocolocyntosis of the American Presidency, Charlie Brown, but we'll survive and recover because that's what we do. It's incumbent upon us to stay strong, stay true to our values and to never stop speaking out in order to hasten that recovery when the time comes.

That said, there's nothing wrong with wallowing in despair for a day or two. Beyond that, it's time to rub some dirt on it and walk it off.


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