Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

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Fortinbras
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#101

Post by Fortinbras »

Bail money doesn't mean much to someone like Jeffs, who expects (and with good reason) to be able to live off his followers in his usual style, even as a fugitive in the unmapped colonias of Mexico, Canada, and elsewhere.

Bail money also doesn't mean much when the potential sentence is so severe that defendendant won't ever enjoy his money again.

Bail also doesn't have much incentive to return for trial when the money is from other people. I could tell you dozens, perhaps hundreds, of horror stories of druggies and youthful thugs who skipped when their parents or grandparents mortgaged everything for pretrial release.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#102

Post by Foggy »

Judge: "Oops." :oops: :bag:
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#103

Post by RoadScholar »

Sic the Dog on 'im.
220px-Dog-Chapman_(cropped).jpg
How cool would it be to watch Chapman perp-walk Jeffs?
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#104

Post by Mikedunford »

LeGargantua wrote:Only solution to avoid this: let the judge stay in prison until the defendant is caught again ....
I don't know where you got your views on what justice should be, but I'm glad I don't live there.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#105

Post by ZekeB »

Mikedunford wrote:I don't know where you got your views on what justice should be, but I'm glad I don't live there.
You've never eaten at Denny's?
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#106

Post by TollandRCR »

The FLDS has been operating as a polygamous cult in Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Idaho (?), British Columbia, and Mexico for many years. Law enforcement was fully aware of this. It is no surprise that a Utah judge turned this cult leader free. Religious tolerance is a virtue; blindness to cult abuse is not a virtue.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#107

Post by TexasFilly »

mmmirele wrote:I forgot to mention that court met on June 9 and Lyle Jeffs was let out at that time, with an ankle monitor. The judge was warned this was a bad idea, and today that became absolutely clear as Lyle had absconded over the weekend.

http://fox13now.com/2016/06/20/flds-lea ... d-custody/

No idea if there is any bail money at stake. He could be literally anywhere in the USA, though, so keep your eyes peeled.
Wikipedia:
Nomination to federal district court, filibuster and confirmation
Edit: In mid-1999, President Bill Clinton nominated Stewart to federal district court to fill a seat vacated by Judge J. Thomas Greene, who had taken senior status in November 1997.[1][3] Clinton, a Democrat, nominated Stewart, a Republican, because Stewart was a friend of Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, and Hatch at that time was the chairman of the United States Senate Committee on the Judiciary.[4] Clinton did so as a courtesy to Hatch, hoping the gesture would encourage Republican senators to act to confirm many of the president's languishing judicial nominees.[4]
However, Hatch demanded that Stewart be confirmed before senators could consider other judicial nominees.[4] That enraged Senate Democrats, who refused to allow for a vote on Stewart. That prompted Republican senators to take the very rare move of filing for cloture on the nomination of a federal district judge. On September 21, 1999, Democrats unified to successfully filibuster Stewart's nomination, in a 55-44 party-line vote on the Senate floor that may well have been the only successful filibuster ever on a federal district court nominee.[4][5]
Two weeks later, Democratic and Republican senators announced a deal that paved the way for votes on the nominations of Stewart and two other judicial nominees. On October 5, 1999, the Senate vote 93-5 to confirm Stewart.[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Stewart
Personal
Edit: Stewart is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. With his brother, Chris Stewart, he wrote the book,Seven Miracles That Saved America: Why They Matter and Why We Should Have Hope, which was published in 2009.[8]
Maybe Orin Hatch can locate Jeffs. ;)
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#108

Post by Family Liberty Patriot »

Judge dun goofed; shoulda made Jeffs take out student loan to make bail. You skip bail, they send the student loan people to find you. Back in custody within a week. Those cats don't fuck around.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#109

Post by TollandRCR »

The Daily Beast June 21 2016 How The Polygamy Cult Will Hide Fugitive Leader Lyle Jeffs
Jeffs’ attorney successfully argued that keeping her client in detention until the October trial would have been a violation of his constitutional rights. The judge’s decision to release him into house arrest was baffling and infuriating for those who saw this coming a mile away.

“Why [the judge] would give deference to Lyle Jeffs is beyond me,” said an exasperated Brower. “I think it’s this thing in the back of judges’ minds that [FLDS] is some sort of religion.”

“They’re not a religion, they’re a crime syndicate,” he continued. “They’re a criminal organization that specializes in exploiting children and women. A religion doesn’t have every single member of its leadership in prison.”
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#110

Post by Fortinbras »

The FDLS people have been able hide from the regular Mormons for decades. Of course, only occasionally are the regular Mormons motivated to look hard for any of the Fundies, but with people like Ervil LeBaron they do make an exception. I suspect that the FDLS crowd could teach ISIS a few lessons in how to hide.

As for bail, a leader like Jeffs could put up every dime of his own and still skip, absolutely confident that he can command his followers to give up all of their money to him and keep him in the style to which he is accustomed.
LeGargantua

Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#111

Post by LeGargantua »

Mikedunford wrote:
LeGargantua wrote:Only solution to avoid this: let the judge stay in prison until the defendant is caught again ....
I don't know where you got your views on what justice should be, but I'm glad I don't live there.
Or may be that judge should pay for the search of the fugitive. He broke it - he owns it. But I know of course - immunity even for the most crazy things.

Btw. - it is extremely easy to tickle you, Mike.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#112

Post by Maybenaut »

LeGargantua wrote:
Mikedunford wrote:
LeGargantua wrote:Only solution to avoid this: let the judge stay in prison until the defendant is caught again ....
I don't know where you got your views on what justice should be, but I'm glad I don't live there.
Or may be that judge should pay for the search of the fugitive. He broke it - he owns it. But I know of course - immunity even for the most crazy things.

Btw. - it is extremely easy to tickle you, Mike.
I think it's odd in a way that some people are laying this on the judge, and I've heard some folks blaming the defense counsel. But the burden was on the government to prove to the judge that Jeffs was a flight risk. It is obvious from the ruling that he government didn't meet its burden.

I don't know that the government could have done a better job than it did with respect to meeting its burden. That is, I don't know that there is evidence that government had that it didn't present, or some argument that the government could have made but didn't. But the judge obviously found that the government didn't meet its burden or he would have denied release.

In my view, we can't blame the judge for guessing wrong. That's not how our system works.
"Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#113

Post by ZekeB »

No matter. Jeffs may not be found tomorrow. He may not be found for years. Meanwhile he lives a life in hiding. When he is found he will not be seeing the light of day for many years. I wouldn't want to live the life he now has to live.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#114

Post by Azastan »

Maybenaut wrote:

I don't know that the government could have done a better job than it did with respect to meeting its burden. That is, I don't know that there is evidence that government had that it didn't present, or some argument that the government could have made but didn't. But the judge obviously found that the government didn't meet its burden or he would have denied release.
Is there a way to look at the government's presentation? I find it amazing that Judge Stewart would have allowed Lyle Jeffs to be on house arrest, knowing that Warren Jeffs took to his heels and eluded capture for months.

The FLDS is even more prepared now than when Warren Jeffs was on the loose.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#115

Post by Foggy »

NOW the prosecutors have better evidence that he's a flight risk. :blink:
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#116

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Excellent point, Foogie.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#117

Post by RVInit »

Are any of the others who were charged along with him out on pre-trial release?
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#118

Post by Maybenaut »

Foggy wrote:NOW the prosecutors have better evidence that he's a flight risk. :blink:
Indeed they do. I think they probably did at the time. But I can't fault the judge if he concluded that the government didn't meet its burden. Nor am I willing to assume that the judge was "stupid" or "corrupt," although I've seen him described that way in comments to some articles I've read.

And the reason I'm reluctant to fault the judge is because he's the gatekeeper of our constitutional rights. It gladdens my little defense attorney heart to think that a judge will hold the government's feet to the fire, even if it turns out he was wrong.

They'll find Jeffs eventually. What I'm wondering now is whether the government will move to revoke the release of any of the remaining defendants who, as I understand it, have all been released.
"Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#119

Post by magdalen77 »

Maybenaut wrote:
Foggy wrote:NOW the prosecutors have better evidence that he's a flight risk. :blink:
Indeed they do. I think they probably did at the time. But I can't fault the judge if he concluded that the government didn't meet its burden. Nor am I willing to assume that the judge was "stupid" or "corrupt," although I've seen him described that way in comments to some articles I've read.

And the reason I'm reluctant to fault the judge is because he's the gatekeeper of our constitutional rights. It gladdens my little defense attorney heart to think that a judge will hold the government's feet to the fire, even if it turns out he was wrong.

They'll find Jeffs eventually. What I'm wondering now is whether the government will move to revoke the release of any of the remaining defendants who, as I understand it, have all been released.
Yeah, that's something I don't get. A few years ago we had a ballot question that wanted to give the option of whether a criminal defendant was tried before a jury or just the judge to the county/state. The reason was to "protect" us from those liberal judges. IDK, if I'm ever in trouble for something and faced with prison I might want me one of them liberal judges. Why don't people ever think of it that way?
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#120

Post by Maybenaut »

magdalen77 wrote:
Maybenaut wrote:
Foggy wrote:NOW the prosecutors have better evidence that he's a flight risk. :blink:
Indeed they do. I think they probably did at the time. But I can't fault the judge if he concluded that the government didn't meet its burden. Nor am I willing to assume that the judge was "stupid" or "corrupt," although I've seen him described that way in comments to some articles I've read.

And the reason I'm reluctant to fault the judge is because he's the gatekeeper of our constitutional rights. It gladdens my little defense attorney heart to think that a judge will hold the government's feet to the fire, even if it turns out he was wrong.

They'll find Jeffs eventually. What I'm wondering now is whether the government will move to revoke the release of any of the remaining defendants who, as I understand it, have all been released.
Yeah, that's something I don't get. A few years ago we had a ballot question that wanted to give the option of whether a criminal defendant was tried before a jury or just the judge to the county/state. The reason was to "protect" us from those liberal judges. IDK, if I'm ever in trouble for something and faced with prison I might want me one of them liberal judges. Why don't people ever think of it that way?
Really??!! What happened on the ballot question? Are they totally unaware that the Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to trial by jury in all but petty offenses? There are valid reasons for being tried before a jury or a bench trial, depending on the circumstances, but I wouldn't want the government making that decision for me if I was a criminal defendant.
"Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." - Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#121

Post by magdalen77 »

Maybenaut wrote:
magdalen77 wrote:
Maybenaut wrote: Indeed they do. I think they probably did at the time. But I can't fault the judge if he concluded that the government didn't meet its burden. Nor am I willing to assume that the judge was "stupid" or "corrupt," although I've seen him described that way in comments to some articles I've read.

And the reason I'm reluctant to fault the judge is because he's the gatekeeper of our constitutional rights. It gladdens my little defense attorney heart to think that a judge will hold the government's feet to the fire, even if it turns out he was wrong.

They'll find Jeffs eventually. What I'm wondering now is whether the government will move to revoke the release of any of the remaining defendants who, as I understand it, have all been released.
Yeah, that's something I don't get. A few years ago we had a ballot question that wanted to give the option of whether a criminal defendant was tried before a jury or just the judge to the county/state. The reason was to "protect" us from those liberal judges. IDK, if I'm ever in trouble for something and faced with prison I might want me one of them liberal judges. Why don't people ever think of it that way?
Really??!! What happened on the ballot question? Are they totally unaware that the Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to trial by jury in all but petty offenses? There are valid reasons for being tried before a jury or a bench trial, depending on the circumstances, but I wouldn't want the government making that decision for me if I was a criminal defendant.
It lost. Thankfully. I was totally disappointed that most of my friends and co-workers were thinking, "Yeah! We gotta stop those judges!" Instead of "Doesn't the government have enough power?" Apparently the DAs were confident in their ability to convince the "hang 'em high" juries to do just that.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#122

Post by rifleman1635 »

Maybenaut wrote: Really??!! What happened on the ballot question? Are they totally unaware that the Sixth Amendment guarantees the right to trial by jury in all but petty offenses? There are valid reasons for being tried before a jury or a bench trial, depending on the circumstances, but I wouldn't want the government making that decision for me if I was a criminal defendant.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#123

Post by Fortinbras »

In the very unlikely event that they recapture Jeffs, from now on he won't be able to get pre-trial release even if the case is for an overdue library book.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#124

Post by woodworker »

mmmirele wrote:I forgot to mention that court met on June 9 and Lyle Jeffs was let out at that time, with an ankle monitor. The judge was warned this was a bad idea, and today that became absolutely clear as Lyle had absconded over the weekend.

http://fox13now.com/2016/06/20/flds-lea ... d-custody/

No idea if there is any bail money at stake. He could be literally anywhere in the USA, though, so keep your eyes peeled.

I am sure he is merely on a religious retreat and his 1st Amendment Right to do whatever the fuck he wants in the name of his dog trumps everything else.
bring out the tumbrils. I am so fucking filled with pain and anger at what is going on in this country. I do deeply believe that if trump somehow retains power it will be the end of democracy in this country and the end of this country as we know it.
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Re: Jeffs and 10 Others Indicted for Food Stamp Fraud Conspiracy and Money Laundering

#125

Post by woodworker »

TexasFilly wrote:
mmmirele wrote:I forgot to mention that court met on June 9 and Lyle Jeffs was let out at that time, with an ankle monitor. The judge was warned this was a bad idea, and today that became absolutely clear as Lyle had absconded over the weekend.

http://fox13now.com/2016/06/20/flds-lea ... d-custody/

No idea if there is any bail money at stake. He could be literally anywhere in the USA, though, so keep your eyes peeled.
:snippity:

Maybe Orin Hatch can locate Jeffs. ;)
h
I am sure that Senator Hatch, in between shilling for herbal supplement pushers, will find time to complain about those damned liberal judges, like Merrick Garland, letting pedophiles out on bail and failing to protect our womenfolk - oh wait, Hatch promoted this guy, stop, look over there, is that Elvis? Ooh, shiny new object. Hillary, Benghazi, must not talk about judge.
bring out the tumbrils. I am so fucking filled with pain and anger at what is going on in this country. I do deeply believe that if trump somehow retains power it will be the end of democracy in this country and the end of this country as we know it.
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