Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

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RoadScholar
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#101

Post by RoadScholar » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:38 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
RoadScholar wrote:Light being what it is, with a flat world, how exactly can part of it be dark and part in sunlight? And if it were arranged in a ring, wouldn't the sun be seen rising over the Antarctic ice? Also, if North is in the center, and South is a ring, wouldn't the sun be seen to traverse north-south, not east-west? :confused:
*sigh* Do I really have to keep edumacating you sheeple?

The sun and moon orbit above the flat Earth circling the north pole somewhere between the tropic of Cancer and the tropic of Capricorn depending on the season (see the images in Vic's post). You seem to have the naive idea that the sun sometimes dips below the Earth which is impossible---everyone knows it's turtles all the way down. You are also under the foolish impression that you can see infinitely far through the atmosphere. When the Sun gets sufficiently far away you are just unable to see it through all the water vapor.

Can't you figure out anything on your own? This is just simple logic.
:nope:
How then does night happen?

I love flat earth. Not only is it wrong, I can't even torture it into something that could conceivably be right. :nope:
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#102

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:48 pm

RoadScholar wrote: How then does night happen?
:brickwallsmall: I'm surprised at how dumb you are, RoadScholar. (Can I say that here, Foogie? It's not FEMA Camp 7 1/2.)

Large pterodactyls, carrying shades, circle the earth (from above) as the sun shines down and cause the darkness. Also sunrises and sunsets.

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#103

Post by vic » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:02 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:Vic,

How can "the edges connect with themselves" if the whole thing is flat?

Sugar,

As the map Vic included shows, the flat Earthers think that the antarctic is kind of a buffer region between the world and the wall (the north pole is in the center and "north" is toward the center and "south" is away from it. The purpose of the international treaty regarding use of the antarctic is so that all of the governments of the world can conspire to keep people away from the edge. A consequence is that the length of the coastline of Antarctica is necessarily much larger than the distance required to circumnavigate the north pole along the equator.
Slarti, I'm disappointed. I didn't think it would be necessary to explain to you. The smilie I included beating its head against the wall should have been a clue.
Vic earlier wrote:I dunno, but my suggestion would be that the edges connect with themselves, something like a sphere. But flat. :brickwallsmall:

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#104

Post by vic » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:12 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
RoadScholar wrote:Light being what it is, with a flat world, how exactly can part of it be dark and part in sunlight? And if it were arranged in a ring, wouldn't the sun be seen rising over the Antarctic ice? Also, if North is in the center, and South is a ring, wouldn't the sun be seen to traverse north-south, not east-west? :confused:
*sigh* Do I really have to keep edumacating you sheeple?

The sun and moon orbit above the flat Earth circling the north pole somewhere between the tropic of Cancer and the tropic of Capricorn depending on the season (see the images in Vic's post). You seem to have the naive idea that the sun sometimes dips below the Earth which is impossible---everyone knows it's turtles all the way down. You are also under the foolish impression that you can see infinitely far through the atmosphere. When the Sun gets sufficiently far away you are just unable to see it through all the water vapor.

Can't you figure out anything on your own? This is just simple logic.
:nope:
Also, on that flat earth society forum, someone said that the sun was like a spotlight, so it's there, but we can't see the light, because it's not aimed at you. :doh: Of all the stuff they said, that's the only one which I can see them saying they learned in school, since you get told that the sun's rays are parallel (not strictly true, but a reasonable first approximation, since the sun subtends an arc of only about 0.5 degree.)

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#105

Post by RoadScholar » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:19 pm

Which reminds me of a zen koan:

Above the budless branches, the golden phoenix* soars.
Around the shadowless tree, the jade elephant circumambulates.
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#106

Post by Slartibartfast » Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:18 am

vic wrote:Also, on that flat earth society forum, someone said that the sun was like a spotlight, so it's there, but we can't see the light, because it's not aimed at you. :doh: Of all the stuff they said, that's the only one which I can see them saying they learned in school, since you get told that the sun's rays are parallel (not strictly true, but a reasonable first approximation, since the sun subtends an arc of only about 0.5 degree.)
I think that the only possible answer (from a conspiracist point of view) is to conflate both theories. Personally, I can't see them saying they learned something in school nor do I think there is any evidence that any of them learned anything in school.
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#107

Post by vic » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:10 am

Slartibartfast wrote:
vic wrote:Also, on that flat earth society forum, someone said that the sun was like a spotlight, so it's there, but we can't see the light, because it's not aimed at you. :doh: Of all the stuff they said, that's the only one which I can see them saying they learned in school, since you get told that the sun's rays are parallel (not strictly true, but a reasonable first approximation, since the sun subtends an arc of only about 0.5 degree.)
I think that the only possible answer (from a conspiracist point of view) is to conflate both theories. Personally, I can't see them saying they learned something in school nor do I think there is any evidence that any of them learned anything in school.
When did you stop being fun?

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#108

Post by Slartibartfast » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:51 am

vic wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
vic wrote:Also, on that flat earth society forum, someone said that the sun was like a spotlight, so it's there, but we can't see the light, because it's not aimed at you. :doh: Of all the stuff they said, that's the only one which I can see them saying they learned in school, since you get told that the sun's rays are parallel (not strictly true, but a reasonable first approximation, since the sun subtends an arc of only about 0.5 degree.)
I think that the only possible answer (from a conspiracist point of view) is to conflate both theories. Personally, I can't see them saying they learned something in school nor do I think there is any evidence that any of them learned anything in school.
When did you stop being fun?
Just been a long day (or week or six years). These people are so mind-numbingly stupid that it gets to me sometimes. In some ways they're even worse than the birthers or the 9/11 truthers (not sure that any of these species are more vile than Sandy Hook truthers though...). I'll be better after a good night's sleep. :thumbs: Unfortunately, I wont be getting that tonight... :crying:

Anyway, thanks for looking at the forum and relating the idiocy on it. Even if sometimes it makes me despair that the world can be saved from this scientifically illiterate nonsense.
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#109

Post by MSO » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:20 am

Arguing with flat earthers is just as ridiculous as arguing with Orly Taitz. First of all they believe in every conspiracy theory that exists (and some they made up just to prove their theory). Every argument that you can prove against their theory will just be condemned as bible hating scientists faking stuff so they can destroy religion. You will find that most flat earthers wish we could go back to the dark ages where the church defined the world not science.

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#110

Post by vic » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:29 am

The only good things about flat earthers is that we get a chance to see Neil deGrasse Tyson on The Nightly Show

Neil deGrasse Tyson clip at Comedy Central

CNN story with The Nightly Show video in case the comedy central has regional limits
Edit: Oh, and Slarti, please get some rest soon. You are a very precious resource here and we need you in peak form!

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#111

Post by Suranis » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:50 am

MSO wrote:Arguing with flat earthers is just as ridiculous as arguing with Orly Taitz. First of all they believe in every conspiracy theory that exists (and some they made up just to prove their theory). Every argument that you can prove against their theory will just be condemned as bible hating scientists faking stuff so they can destroy religion. You will find that most flat earthers wish we could go back to the dark ages where the church defined the world not science.
Actually, its something more complex than that. For example, as I keep saying, People knew the Earth was round in the Dark Ages. The idea that the Earth was flat actually started a resurgence in the 19th century and was used as an insult as "hurr hurr You are so stoopid because you believed the earth was flat." St Augustine discussed a round earth in City of God for example. And, did you know that Copernicus's theories were brought before Pope Clement VII in 1533, who approved of the theory? http://info-poland.buffalo.edu/classroo ... icus.shtml

The point is that in the Dark ages Clerics WERE the scientists. They were frequently the only educated people around. When St Columbanus began his pilgrimage one of the reasons he was successful is that he was teaching Mathematics as well as the Scriptures and he began bringing the whole package of sciences back to Europe. He could debate with the best of them and prove things. It has been said that Ireland saved Europe because our missionaries brought knowledge of the sciences back to Europe, and the Sciences remained intact in Ireland because we had not been ravaged by the wars that had ravaged Europe back and forth for a couple of hundred years.

Frankly, the Church has been the guardian of science far more than it has been its enemy. Even today the Catholic Church has world leaders in the Physical Sciences and to a lesser extent in Biology. We are not too hot on the other sciences but you cant have everything.

Anyway, I think the reason this Flat earth shit is flourishing is that a lot of them are trolls. And the whole thing of "we are smarter today than people were in the past" is bouncing back against science at this point, because people think they are smarter than those old stuffy bigwigs who follow those old fashioned theories of, for example, Newton. Fuck his apple, We are smarter than that shit because WE HAVE THE INTERNET dammit! So we can decide the earth is flat now because everyone before us thought it was round and we are smart!

The fact is a lot of this shit can be 86ed by starting to admit that people in the prior centuries were actually pretty smart cookies and we shouldn't be looking down on them. Of course also that means admitting that Columbus was a moron who got his maths wrong, but hey, 'merica.
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#112

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 4:41 am

Slartibartfast wrote: :snippity:

Just been a long day (or week or six years). These people are so mind-numbingly stupid that it gets to me sometimes. In some ways they're even worse than the birthers or the 9/11 truthers (not sure that any of these species are more vile than Sandy Hook truthers though...). I'll be better after a good night's sleep. :thumbs: Unfortunately, I wont be getting that tonight... :crying:

Anyway, thanks for looking at the forum and relating the idiocy on it. Even if sometimes it makes me despair that the world can be saved from this scientifically illiterate nonsense.
Somebody please lift the Flat Earth up by its side and let the stupid drip of it, thanks :!:

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#113

Post by Northland10 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:06 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote: :snippity:

Just been a long day (or week or six years). These people are so mind-numbingly stupid that it gets to me sometimes. In some ways they're even worse than the birthers or the 9/11 truthers (not sure that any of these species are more vile than Sandy Hook truthers though...). I'll be better after a good night's sleep. :thumbs: Unfortunately, I wont be getting that tonight... :crying:

Anyway, thanks for looking at the forum and relating the idiocy on it. Even if sometimes it makes me despair that the world can be saved from this scientifically illiterate nonsense.
Somebody please lift the Flat Earth up by its side and let the stupid drip of it, thanks :!:
But the stupid has guns and guns fix anything.
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#114

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:44 am

I see that no one has disproved my pterodactyl theory.

So it must be fact.

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#115

Post by Foggy » Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:48 am

Image
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#116

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:33 am

Thank you. I rest my case.

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#117

Post by BrianH » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:10 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:The purpose of the international treaty regarding use of the antarctic is so that all of the governments of the world can conspire to keep people away from the edge.
Indeed. "The Truman Show" was just a clever bit of psy-ops disinformation to hide the world we actually inhabit.

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#118

Post by Suranis » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:22 pm

Damn, its true. When I hold a glass to the floor and listen, I can hear the ocean on the other side of the disk! :eek2:
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#119

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:56 pm

Suranis wrote:Damn, its true. When I hold a glass to the floor and listen, I can hear the ocean on the other side of the disk! :eek2:
Nonononono.. that's the river Styx on its way to the Underworld! The earth's disk has layers, y'know.

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#120

Post by Flatpointhigh » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:39 pm

Charon my native son...

My Name is...
Daffy Duck.. woo hoo!
Cancer broke me

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#121

Post by vic » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:21 pm

Someone knew we were discussing this. This link appeared on my facebook feed today, courtesy of Skeptical Spectacles

Listverse: 10 Absurd Claims Of Modern Flat Earth Conspiracy Theorists
WEIRD STUFF
10 Absurd Claims Of Modern Flat Earth Conspiracy Theorists
ELI NIXON FEBRUARY 1, 2016

If you’ve never made the mistake of scrolling down into the comments section of a NASA video on YouTube, you’d be forgiven for having a shred of optimism left for the future of our world. Around 600 BC, the Greek philosopher Pythagoras started telling people that the Earth was a sphere.

It seemed like a silly notion then. But as we know now, it was the first true step in understanding the nature of planetary behavior in the universe at large. By the Middle Ages, that knowledge was firmly entrenched in the annals of science. They still had to work out that the Earth wasn’t the center of the universe, much to Galileo’s dismay, but there was no question that it was a ball.

Then, in the mid-1800s, Samuel Rowbotham came along and told everyone that they’d been wrong all along—the Earth was flat. Somehow, the idea picked up steam, and after a tumultuous century and a half, it hit the Internet in the form of the Flat Earth Society. And yes, they’re serious.

The modern flat Earth conspiracy theory is much denser than most other theories, mainly because nobody can quite agree on what they believe. It’s a globular web of claims, counterclaims, ad hominem attacks on nonbelievers and believers alike, and denial of the scientific process to an extent that borders on neurosis.
:snippity:
Much more at the link, including details on these :brickwallsmall:

9 ISS Videos Are Shot In A Zero-G Plane
8 Antarctica Is An Impenetrable Ice Wall
7 The Earth Has No Curvature
6 Gravity Doesn’t Exist
5 The Sun Isn’t Millions Of Miles Away

#6 might explain why Neil deGrasse Tyson ended his The Nightly Show bit by dropping his mike and saying "... and by the way, this is called gravity"

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#122

Post by Slartibartfast » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:31 am

MSO wrote:Arguing with flat earthers is just as ridiculous as arguing with Orly Taitz. First of all they believe in every conspiracy theory that exists (and some they made up just to prove their theory). Every argument that you can prove against their theory will just be condemned as bible hating scientists faking stuff so they can destroy religion. You will find that most flat earthers wish we could go back to the dark ages where the church defined the world not science.
This poses an interesting question: are conspiracy theories well-ordered? By which I mean, given a conspiracy theory, is there a way to define "less stupid conspiracy theories" such that all of its adherents will buy all of the less stupid theories?

Hmmm... :think:

Suranis,

There's nothing on the other side of the disk---"up" is an absolute direction due to (as vic points out) a conspicuous lack of gravity. There is some kind of weird electromagnetism that holds us to the Earth (where everything attracts everything else instead of like repelling like) which would, if you worked out the equations (I'm not willing to simulate that much derp in my brain, sorry) require magnetic monopoles. Which would be cool if not for the mega-derp. But it is absolutely not gravity because that there is sphere-ist thinking "ball" boy.
:towel:

Vic,

That is exactly why I thought NDT's mic drop was awesome!


Thought experiment to determine if there is a "natural" well-ordering of conspiracy theories as described above.

Hypothesis---Flat Eartherism is the stupidest conspiracy theory (credit MSO)

Method---Anyone can propose a partial ordering (X is stupider than Y), offer a counter-example: drk(H)ate believes in X but not in Y or call the whole exercise stupid. You can provide anecdotal evidence, made-up evidence or just make an appeal to authority.

I'll start: chemtrails is stupider than birtherism as evinced by drk(H)ate's hatriots---all are birthers but not all are chemtrailers.
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#123

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:54 am

Still pretty smug no one has disproven the pterodactyl theory. Maybe Judge Anna can write a paper on it.

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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#124

Post by Slartibartfast » Tue Feb 02, 2016 1:21 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
RoadScholar wrote: How then does night happen?
:brickwallsmall: I'm surprised at how dumb you are, RoadScholar. (Can I say that here, Foogie? It's not FEMA Camp 7 1/2.)

Large pterodactyls, carrying shades, circle the earth (from above) as the sun shines down and cause the darkness. Also sunrises and sunsets.
*sigh*

That doesn't account for the sun dropping below the horizon, like when the 30-mile diameter disk of the sun moves far enough away over the flat earth and you can't see it on account of the water vapor.

Sheesh!
:towel:

Happy now Stern?
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Re: Round-Earth Deniers: The Great Balloon Project

#125

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:56 am

Mirrors!

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