Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

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Dolly
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1501

Post by Dolly » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:43 pm

Post: #815905 Dolly
My earlier comment shows a poster for September 24

I noticed an earlier poster for September 17.


http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... on#p807992
Dolly wrote:
Bundy Family Fundraiser
Hosted by Bundy Ranch
Saturday, September 24at 5 PM - 11 PM in MDT
8354 N Sapphire, St George, UT 84770-6074


GUESTS
300 interested
69 going
815 shared with

ETA poster - I think this was posted on another thread. FOUND IT - SEE ABOVE

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boots
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1502

Post by boots » Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:46 pm

Burn'em Down wrote: "Bundyville" is more a state of mind rather than a particular location and it's wherever the hell they say it is!
Sure! Just like "ranching" is a state of mind more than a profession! Mebbe they can sell "Honorary Melon Rancher" t-shirts? :think: :shock:

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1503

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:29 am

Techno Luddite wrote:
Burn'em Down wrote: "Bundyville" is more a state of mind rather than a particular location and it's wherever the hell they say it is!
Sure! Just like "ranching" is a state of mind more than a profession! Mebbe they can sell "Honorary Melon Rancher" t-shirts? :think: :shock:
Hey! Show some respect! Melon ranchers have a tough life, out every day riding the range to round up the strays, sleeping under tarpaulins, fighting off gangs of Mexican melon rustlers, digging latrines, driving herds of melons to the railhead hoping that the eastern melon barons will give them a fair price. And when they rest their weary bodies around a campfire at sundown after branding young melons since sunup, these stoic Mormon melon ranchers must even forgo the pleasure of thrice-boiled coffee!

It's amazing that these heroic souls found the time for a little sedition and occupation.

Just need to check: melons are semi-domesticated buffalos, aren't they?

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1504

Post by Suranis » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:54 am

Not exactly.

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1505

Post by Whatever4 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:57 am

Jim wrote:Does that mean you can't drink when flying over Utah?
I've taken the train 5 times through Utah IIRC, and had no problem with buying or consuming wine in the cafe car, the dining car, or my sleeper. The California Zephyr menu online doesn't say anything about restrictions in Utah.
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1506

Post by JohnPCapitalist » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:53 am

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Techno Luddite wrote:
Burn'em Down wrote: "Bundyville" is more a state of mind rather than a particular location and it's wherever the hell they say it is!
Sure! Just like "ranching" is a state of mind more than a profession! Mebbe they can sell "Honorary Melon Rancher" t-shirts? :think: :shock:
Hey! Show some respect! Melon ranchers have a tough life, out every day riding the range to round up the strays, sleeping under tarpaulins, fighting off gangs of Mexican melon rustlers, digging latrines, driving herds of melons to the railhead hoping that the eastern melon barons will give them a fair price. And when they rest their weary bodies around a campfire at sundown after branding young melons since sunup, these stoic Mormon melon ranchers must even forgo the pleasure of thrice-boiled coffee!

It's amazing that these heroic souls found the time for a little sedition and occupation.

Just need to check: melons are semi-domesticated buffalos, aren't they?
:banana: :shootin: :notworthy: :banana:

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1507

Post by Karen Walker » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:19 am

Hey now... :fingerwag: My farmers grow melons on my farm in Florida. Sometimes they even have cows in my other fields. Let's not lump Bundy bunch with decent farmers.

I used to ride my bike to the crossroads in town to watch the fellas load & unload melons. Look... It was a very boring town, mmkay?

Our most popular event was our annual watermelon festival. It was a very BFD and a ton of fun!

Ironically, I cannot stand watermelon. :sick:

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1508

Post by RoadScholar » Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:58 am

Sure, but those aren't free range melons. 8-)
Edit: And don't even get me started on cage-free eggplants.
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1509

Post by woodworker » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:01 pm

How is it that no one has yet referred to Mr. Majestyk.
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1510

Post by SueDB » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:24 pm

woodworker wrote:How is it that no one has yet referred to Mr. Majestyk.
Because he was real hero melon farmer rather than a creepy old man stealing public land?
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Dolly
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1511

Post by Dolly » Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:48 pm

From the "Rural Land Rights Advocates" page (formerly Cliven Bundy's Army!)
her avatar
Frances R. Stoegbauer
7 hrs
More memory lane...
By SHIREE BUNDY COX:

I have had people ask me to explain my dad's stance on this BLM fight. Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it s in a nut shell. My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the servival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights. Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repaires and improvements of the ranches. My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these money's against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with they're own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren't doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down. So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes. In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business. Well when buying him out didn't work, they used the indangered species card. You've already heard about the desert tortis. Well that didn't work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years. Now their desperate. It's come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff. Everything their doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America. Now you may be saying," how sad, but what does this have to do with me?" Well, I'll tell you. They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again. Next, it's Utah's turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.

Then there's the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn't paid them, those cattle do belong to him. Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even exsisted. Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad's signature on it. They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Aucion and sell them. All with our tax money. They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars. See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks


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Sovereign Citizens, Private Militias, and Citizen Grand Juries Other Fringe Groups & Individuals
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Dolly
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1512

Post by Dolly » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:50 pm

I seldom ever look at Carol Bundy's facebook page. Or the Bundy Ranch page (maybe later)

Carol Bundy (shared the post below)
April 18 at 8:17 AM
► Show Spoiler
The U.S. Militia Gazette
April 14 at 9:44 AM ·
In 2014 the government tried to forcibly confiscate a cattleman’s livelihood over the fact the mans cows were grazing on public land. The cattleman and his neighbors, armed with the same weaponry as the federal officers, stopped the government from doing so and took his case to the highest of courts. In January 2018 a Supreme Court Judge ruled the government was in the wrong and the cattleman and his neighbors were justified in their actions. That cattleman was Cliven Bundy. His case proves the importance of having such guns and proves the importance of the 2A.
<snip photo of bridge sniper on bridge>
► Show Spoiler
some of the comments

Wayne Antone Was that where the uranium that Hillary and Obama sold to the Russians is?
2d

Wendy Kay Wayne, I believe that was the Hammond ranch in Oregon, but there was some investigation into the possibility that Cliven's ranch might be exploited for uranium sales to Russia. Look up Clinton Foundation.
1d


Wendy Kay Carol, isn't it true that you do not own the land, but the grazing rights? Just thought we should clarify that for those who might just be learning the story.
1d


Jason Patrick I hadn't heard of a 2018 ruling. Please advise?
1d

I did a very quick scan on both and didn't see anything about the "Patriot Network Summit".
ETA: Bundy Ranch page has most of the same as Carol Bundy posts.
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1513

Post by Whip » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:23 pm

Dolly wrote:
Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:48 pm
the logo is now a 4 wheel drive toilet?

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1514

Post by Whip » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:27 pm

Dolly wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:50 pm
I seldom ever look at Carol Bundy's facebook page. Or the Bundy Ranch page (maybe later)

Carol Bundy (shared the post below)
April 18 at 8:17 AM
► Show Spoiler
The U.S. Militia Gazette
April 14 at 9:44 AM ·
In 2014 the government tried to forcibly confiscate a cattleman’s livelihood over the fact the mans cows were grazing on public land. The cattleman and his neighbors, armed with the same weaponry as the federal officers, stopped the government from doing so and took his case to the highest of courts. In January 2018 a Supreme Court Judge ruled the government was in the wrong and the cattleman and his neighbors were justified in their actions. That cattleman was Cliven Bundy. His case proves the importance of having such guns and proves the importance of the 2A.
<snip photo of bridge sniper on bridge>
► Show Spoiler
some of the comments

Wayne Antone Was that where the uranium that Hillary and Obama sold to the Russians is?
2d

Wendy Kay Wayne, I believe that was the Hammond ranch in Oregon, but there was some investigation into the possibility that Cliven's ranch might be exploited for uranium sales to Russia. Look up Clinton Foundation.
1d


Wendy Kay Carol, isn't it true that you do not own the land, but the grazing rights? Just thought we should clarify that for those who might just be learning the story.
1d


Jason Patrick I hadn't heard of a 2018 ruling. Please advise?
1d

I did a very quick scan on both and didn't see anything about the "Patriot Network Summit".
ETA: Bundy Ranch page has most of the same as Carol Bundy posts.
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/
is that the same 'livelihood' that clove and the cRy were looking for the other day and couldn't find? I don't remember the feds being there to wrangle melons.

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1515

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:56 pm

Whip wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:23 pm
the logo is now a 4 wheel drive toilet?
:thumbs: For their next invasion of public lands they won't need to dig poot trenches. No, they'll have a fleet of Lavoyatories™ ready to roll!

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1516

Post by Mr. Gneiss » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:05 pm

My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972. These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the servival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars. These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights.
This is so wrong that anyone with an ounce of brains would know better. However, the Bundy clan's collective gray matter falls far short of this. There is a Preemption Act of 1841 (repealed in 1891) that allowed squatters on unsurveyed Public Lands to acquire title to 160 acres as long as they met the conditions of the Act and paid $200 for the land ($1.25/acre). The U.S. General Land Office never had the authority to lease the Public Lands for livestock grazing. Before the Taylor Grazing Act was passed in 1934 it was basically the first rancher to get his cows to forage an area who got the grass!

Period.....End of story! If the Bundy clan wanted to own the land they grazed all those years all they had to do was visit the local Land Office and pay for the land. They never acquired a patent for any of those grazing lands. It was always part of the Public Lands owned by the Sovereign! Now like accruing water rights they "may" have accrued grazing rights, but never ownership of the land.

The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 created the U.S. Grazing Service that was charged with managing the Public Lands suitable for grazing. On July 16, 1946, Congress created the U.S. Bureau of Land Management by merging the General Land Office, the Grazing Service, and the Oregon & California Revested Lands Administration.

The Bundys somehow want people to think that they have had the equivalent of fee simple title to that land since 1887 without every paying property taxes to the State of Nevada and/or Clark County and that Cloven-hoof decided to be magnamous and generous, too, also to pay exorbitant grazing fees to the feds because he was such a patriot until the BLM went too far!

What a complete crock of shit! :shit: :shit: :shit: :shit: :shit:

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1517

Post by Mr. Gneiss » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:28 pm

An added footnote. There are "things" that U.S. citizens (or foreigners stating that they intend to become a citizen) can claim a possessory right to use or extract something of value. The 1866, 1870 and 1872 U.S. Mining Laws provided such a thing for the possessory right to locatable minerals on the Public Lands. While the mining claimant could do a variety of things to apply for a mineral lands patent, a patent was not necessary to extract the minerals from the claim. If the claimant decided to not patent the land, they were required to follow several laws and regulations. One of these was to conduct a minimum of $100 of labor each year that was directly related to extraction of the valuable mineral. If the mining claimant failed to do this the claim was ruled to be abandoned and any other person could claim the remaining minerals.

The mining laws were specifically structured to prod the mining claimants to develop the mineral wealth on their claims. A use it or lose it proposition. There is nothing to prohibit the descendants of an old, wizened miner who first located his mine in 1887 to continue to mine the property as long as there has been continuous development of the mine since discovery. Even though the land is still owned by the Sovereign, the mining family cannot be removed from the property. Even if the Feds later created a National Park around the mine the Feds must honor the prior rights of the mining family.

The Bundy clan forever screwed themselves from legally grazing on that land because they failed to do what was required under the grazing acts to preserve their right to graze their feral beef. Their collective stupidity is not a mitigating factor. They have no claim now because they never owned the land.

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Dan1100
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1518

Post by Dan1100 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:35 am

Mr. Gneiss wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:05 pm
:snippity: Now like accruing water rights they "may" have accrued grazing rights, but never ownership of the land.

:snippity:

What a complete crock of shit! :shit: :shit: :shit: :shit: :shit:
In the United States, there is no such thing as "grazing rights" and no way to accrue them, since they do not exist. There are grazing leases and grazing permits.
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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1519

Post by Mr. Gneiss » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:10 am

Dan, I did use quotes around the word "may" and attempted to link any possible accrual of grazing rights to water rights. :-D

In 1893 the State of Nevada passed the Nevada Open Range Law that provided some protections to ranchers. Things changed in a big way when the Taylor Grazing Act was enacted in 1934. From Wikipedia, "[t]he Taylor Grazing Act allows the BLM to increase or decrease the utilization of a grazing area in response to changing ecological conditions, and specifies that permits are subject to periodic review at least every 10 years, with holders having preferential rights to renew at the discretion of the Secretary of the Interior."

With that preferential right and Clovenhoof's vested water rights I'd say he had some rights, although not grazing rights per se as you point out. The other ranchers in the area saw the writing on the wall when in 1993 the BLM wanted to limit how many and where livestock could graze because of recent wildfires, overgrazing and endangered species issues (i.e. habitat for the endangered desert tortoise). Other ranchers in the Gold Buttes area received compensation from I believe Clark County to voluntarily retire their grazing permits. While they received compensation for their existing grazing permits, Clovenhoof stupidly decided to fight by first declining to pay his grazing fees.

The real point of my prior posts is to lay bare the Bundys nitwittery that great-grandpa somehow secured preemptive rights to the land. There was no law in 1887 that allowed great grandpa to squat on over 100,000 acres and somehow acquire rights equivalent to fee title.

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Re: Bundy Ranch - Cliven Bundy

#1520

Post by RVInit » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:23 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:56 pm
Whip wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:23 pm
the logo is now a 4 wheel drive toilet?
:thumbs: For their next invasion of public lands they won't need to dig poot trenches. No, they'll have a fleet of Lavoyatories™ ready to roll!
Lavoyatories. :rotflmao:
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--- George W Bush

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