Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

Post Reply
User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#1

Post by Kriselda Gray » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:43 am

[highlight]Once bitten by a conspiracy theory, one is a debunker for life.[/highlight] I didn't know some of those things you wrote, Loren. I'll be checking out the Corsica blog, for sure.I don't know if everyone agrees, but this certainly seems true for me. Before birthers, I was interested in people who thought the moon landing was a hoax, people who believed Planet X (Nibiru) was going to pass the Earth and cause a pole shift, 9/11 truthers, and creationists. I've been thinking lately that Loren and Pat are right and that it's time to leave the birthers to wallow in their own filth. I wonder what's next... Climate change maybe :-kI seem to have a particular fascination with vaccine denialists, myself
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
Slarti the White
Posts: 7047
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#2

Post by Slarti the White » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:37 am

[highlight]Once bitten by a conspiracy theory, one is a debunker for life.[/highlight] I didn't know some of those things you wrote, Loren. I'll be checking out the Corsica blog, for sure.I don't know if everyone agrees, but this certainly seems true for me. Before birthers, I was interested in people who thought the moon landing was a hoax, people who believed Planet X (Nibiru) was going to pass the Earth and cause a pole shift, 9/11 truthers, and creationists. I've been thinking lately that Loren and Pat are right and that it's time to leave the birthers to wallow in their own filth. I wonder what's next... Climate change maybe :-kI seem to have a particular fascination with vaccine denialists, myselfI have a good friend who is one. I can understand how a parent could fall into this, although I think that even if the claims of vaccines causing autism were true (which I don't believe), it would still be in society's interest to vaccinate everyone.
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

User avatar
Flatpointhigh
Posts: 7946
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:05 pm
Location: Hotel California, PH23
Occupation: Voice Actor, Podcaster, I hold a Ph.D in Procrastination.
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#3

Post by Flatpointhigh » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:58 pm




I seem to have a particular fascination with vaccine denialists, myselfI have a good friend who is one. I can understand how a parent could fall into this, although I think that even if the claims of vaccines causing autism were true (which I don't believe), it would still be in society's interest to vaccinate everyone.They aren't true, in fact


//The British scientist responsible for starting the autism-MMR vaccine hoax not only falsified his data, but sought to profit from it, according to a report published Tuesday in the British Medical Journal.





Andrew Wakefield, who has been stripped of his medical license and whose study has since been retracted, explored business opportunities designed to capitalize on his fraudulent findings, according to the BMJ. The businesses were intended to earn huge sums of money in Britain and the U.S. — up to $40 million a year — by providing unique diagnostic services to test for the presence of measles in patients with Crohn's disease.





Wakefield planned to develop his own supposedly safer vaccines after public fears were sufficiently stoked, according to the report, a two-part investigation by British investigative journalist Brian Deer. He outlines how Wakefield accepted fees from a lawyer who eventually filed (and lost) an autism-vaccine lawsuit.


[/break1]popsci.com/science/article/2011-01/british-doctor-faked-data-linking-vaccines-autism-and-hoped-profit-]http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... ed-profit-





Deer's article: [/break1]bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5258]http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c5258

My Name is...
Daffy Duck.. woo hoo!
Cancer broke me

User avatar
Slarti the White
Posts: 7047
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#4

Post by Slarti the White » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:05 pm

Thanks for the info :-bd ---it will be interesting to see my friend's reaction.
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#5

Post by Kriselda Gray » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:26 pm

I highly recommend the book the panic virus by Seth Mnookin from the New York Times for anyone interested in the topic of vaccine denialism. It's a fascinating book, that be aware you will probably get quite angry while reading it at the mendacity of some of the alleged doctors who are promoting the anti-vaccine beliefs and black chairs for autism. Dr. Paul Orfitt's books are also excellent.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
vic
Posts: 3829
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:36 am
Location: The great San Fernando Valley
Occupation: Web developer

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#6

Post by vic » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Regarding vaccine denialists, I also take interest in that. It was a bit awkward a couple of years ago when my brother came down with GBS a week or so after a flu shot. It was caught quickly, and after about a week in the hospital he was released & was able to return to work after a month or so. He still has some lingering effects, but is mostly recovered.The awkwardness is due to people who take his very rare (probable) side effect of the vaccine as an excuse to not get a flu shot. His reaction is just the opposite of the denialists - since he has been told he can't get a flu shot any more, he relies on herd immunity to give him some protection.

User avatar
Slarti the White
Posts: 7047
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#7

Post by Slarti the White » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:02 pm

Regarding vaccine denialists, I also take interest in that. It was a bit awkward a couple of years ago when my brother came down with GBS a week or so after a flu shot. It was caught quickly, and after about a week in the hospital he was released & was able to return to work after a month or so. He still has some lingering effects, but is mostly recovered.The awkwardness is due to people who take his very rare (probable) side effect of the vaccine as an excuse to not get a flu shot. His reaction is just the opposite of the denialists - since he has been told he can't get a flu shot any more, he relies on herd immunity to give him some protection.Anyone who refuses immunizations should be made aware of how dangerous it would be to them (or their children) if herd immunity were compromised. I'm glad your brother takes the eminently rational position. :-bd
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

User avatar
PatGund
Posts: 7767
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:41 pm
Location: Edmonds. WA
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#8

Post by PatGund » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:58 am

Thanks for the info :-bd ---it will be interesting to see my friend's reaction.If it's anything like other anti-vaccers, your friend will say that Wakefield was unjustly framed by the pharma industry.Most birthers are far more open-minded than most anti-vaccine nuts.

User avatar
Sam the Centipede
Posts: 7308
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:25 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#9

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:49 am

Thanks for the info :-bd ---it will be interesting to see my friend's reaction.If it's anything like other anti-vaccers, your friend will say that Wakefield was unjustly framed by the pharma industry.Most birthers are far more open-minded than most anti-vaccine nuts.One of the absurdities of the anti-vaxers and their hatred of Big Pharma is that they can't recognize that people like Wakefield and other quacks were in it to make big profits while threatening people's health. Their heroes are the crooks telling lies to protect their profits; Big Pharma are no angels but they do at least provide a lot of good medicines and their failings are the failings of all capitalism.It's always a mystery to me how nutters (birthers, anti-vaxers, 9/11ers) never seem to notice that many of their heroes are greedy, lying, assholes. In SaneWorld, I see people that I agree with on some topics, but I can see that some of them are unpleasant and possibly evil, and I see people that I disagree with, but who are honest and good (just wrong in my view!), but nutters seem to need to project saintliness onto their heroes and evil intent onto anybody they disagree with. Bizarre!

User avatar
Piffle
Posts: 6987
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:39 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#10

Post by Piffle » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:57 am

It saddens me to watch RFK Jr. continue to embarrass himself as he clings to his anti-vaxxer beliefs. The original hypothesis (i.e., principal anti-vaxxer "fact") was that thimerosal (a mercury compound once used as a preservative) caused autism.Thimerosal was phased out years ago but does that matter? Nooooo. [-( And that's how it is with conspiracy theorists: You knock down one of their "facts" and they'll just conjure up a new one to take its place. They are committed to the conspiracy regardless of the evidence. :(

User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 23802
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#11

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:11 pm

Houston confirms season's first pediatric flu death


[/break1]chron.com/default/article/Houston-confirms-season-s-first-pediatric-flu-5094704.php]http://www.chron.com/default/article/Ho ... 094704.php





The Centers for Disease Control has reported "widespread" flu activity in Texas. CDC and health care experts also urge people to protect themselves from the flu by encouraging vaccinations and proper hand washing.
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 16980
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#12

Post by Suranis » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:15 pm

Reposting this imagehttp://s.quickmeme.com/img/bd/bdc9f6cbb2d0ea27dd1cf81434509887529e9417d2641417f626e6b365543e46.jpg
Learn to Swear in Latin. Profanity with class!
https://blogs.transparent.com/latin/lat ... -in-latin/

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#13

Post by Kriselda Gray » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:39 pm

Great graphic - thanks for posting it
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
realist
Posts: 34944
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:33 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#14

Post by realist » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:08 pm

Deleted because brainfart. :oops:
ImageX 4 ImageX36
Image

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#15

Post by Kriselda Gray » Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:20 pm

They need to develop a vaccine for those, huh?
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
Suranis
Posts: 16980
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:04 am

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#16

Post by Suranis » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:29 pm

More from my facebook wallhttps://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/547533_672468232805544_1821439535_n.jpg
Learn to Swear in Latin. Profanity with class!
https://blogs.transparent.com/latin/lat ... -in-latin/

User avatar
gupwalla
Posts: 2779
Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:57 pm
Location: The mind of Cassandra

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#17

Post by gupwalla » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:51 pm

Here's why vaccines are so important, and vaccine denialists so dangerous:In 2003, Northern Nigeria—a country which at that time [highlight]was considered provisionally polio free[/highlight]—issued an Islamic Fatwah declaring that the polio vaccine was a conspiracy by the United States and the United Nations against the Muslim faith, saying that the drops were designed to sterilize the true believers. Subsequently, [highlight]polio reappeared in Nigeria[/highlight] and spread from there to several other countries. Health workers administering polio vaccine have been targeted and killed by gunmen on motorcycles in Kano. (Wikipedia)Nigeria now accounts for half the world's polio cases, and re-introduced the disease to their neighboring countries. WHO has a goal of making polio go the way of smallpox, and they are close - there were only about 300 reported cases last year - but denialism can set back the goal of eradication pretty significantly.
In a wilderness of mirrors, what will the spider do beyond the circuit of the shuddering Bear in fractured atoms? -TS Eliot (somewhat modified)

All warfare is based on deception. - Sun Tzu

User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 23802
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#18

Post by Volkonski » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:21 pm

http://www.trbimg.com/img-52e03d5c/turb ... 600Measles outbreaks (purple) worldwide and whooping cough (green) in the U.S., thanks in part to the anti-vaccination movement. (Council on Foreign Relations)[/break1]latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-antivaccination-movement-20140120,0,5576371.story#ixzz2rFr8EAjt]http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... z2rFr8EAjt[/break1]latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-antivaccination-movement-20140120,0,5576371.story#axzz2rFqkcvzR]http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik ... z2rFqkcvzRAaron Carroll today offers a graphic depiction of the toll of the anti-vaccination movement. (H/t: Kevin Drum.) It comes from a Council on Foreign Relations interactive map of "vaccine-preventable outbreaks" worldwide 2008-2014.A couple of manifestations stand out. One is the prevalence of measles in Europe -- especially Britain -- and the U.S. Measles is endemic in the underdeveloped world because of the unavailability of the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine.But in the developed world it's an artifact of the anti-vaccination movement, which has associated the vaccine with autism. That connection, promoted by the discredited British physician Andrew Wakefield and the starlet Jenny McCarthy, has been thoroughly debunked. But its effects live on, as the map shows.Vaccine panic also plays a role in the shocking incidence in the U.S. of whooping cough, also beatable by a common vaccine. Researchers have pointed to the effect of "non-medical exemptions" from legally required whooping cough immunizations -- those premised on personal beliefs rather than medical reasons -- as a factor in a 2010 outbreak of whooping cough in California.
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#19

Post by Kriselda Gray » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:01 pm

I saw that… And - no pun intended – but it's absolutely sickening.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
SueDB
Posts: 27756
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Location: RIP, my friend. - Foggy

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#20

Post by SueDB » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:24 pm

I saw that… And - no pun intended – but it's absolutely sickening.It's an epidemic of ignorance. The map shows where ignorance flourishes.
“If You're Not In The Obit, Eat Breakfast”

Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!

User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 23802
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#21

Post by Volkonski » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:21 pm

Our growing skepticism about science puts children at risk





[/break1]chron.com/opinion/outlook/article/Ness-Our-growing-skepticism-about-science-puts-5186158.php]http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook/ar ... 186158.php





Shortly after the start of 2014, the Texas Department of State Health Services posted its end-of-year data for pertussis, known to many as whooping cough. With the dehydrated precision of most governmental documents, it reported 3,637 cases - 11 percent resulting in hospitalization, and five deaths. Numbers, numbers, right? Let's be clear about the magnitude of this human tragedy: More than 800 of these "cases" were babies under one year of age and another 800 were young children under the age of 6. Hysterical parents flooded emergency departments. Infants coughed until, starving for oxygen, they literally turned blue. Tubes were inserted and respirators employed because the finger-like cilia that usually clear those little airways were paralyzed by bacterial toxin. Antibiotics and oxygen, both applied at high dose, do not treat a toxin. So in the end, doctors and parents were simply left to pray.





The horror of the 2013 whooping cough epidemic, one of the worst in the nation's recent history, cannot be fully appreciated in any given story. But the larger story must be appreciated: Whooping cough is entirely preventable.





Starting with the introduction of the pertussis vaccine in 1949, Texas saw a decline in disease such that from 1970 to 2000, only a handful of cases were reported each year. In 2010, the disease came roaring back. Why?





Some say it is simply increased reporting of disease, while others believe the vaccine has gotten less effective over time. But a recent report in the elite journal "Pediatrics" clearly shows that a major factor lies with parents who elected not to vaccinate their children. According to the study, communities where parents were likely to file a personal belief exemption allowing their child to attend school without vaccination were 2½ times more likely to have high rates of pertussis. Whereas we think of non-adherence to medical recommendations as more common among the poor, many of these high-exemption neighborhoods were wealthy.
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

TexasFilly
Posts: 18462
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:52 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#22

Post by TexasFilly » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:27 pm

Oh, that is sickening.When my youngest was in preschool, the chicken pox vaccine became available. Of course, we had him vaccinated. There were subsequent significant outbreaks in his preschool of chicken pox! This was a fancy Montessori, patronized by supposedly educated and affluent parents. ](*,)
I love the poorly educated!!!

Kevin McCarthy: Paul Ryan playing with a head injury -- Jon Lovett

User avatar
Kriselda Gray
Posts: 8645
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Location: FEMA Camp 2112 - a joint project of the U.S. and Canada
Contact:

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#23

Post by Kriselda Gray » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:59 pm

They give parents the option to file a request for exemption so they can send their kids to school without vaccination. Is there also some kind of exemption form available for parents who don't want to send their kids to school with unvaccinated children? Seems to me, there should be. I know if I had children I would not want them in a school where there were more than a very small handful of a unvaccinated kids (and those kids were unvaccinated because for some genuine medical reason they could not be vaccinated safely - such as an allergy to some of the ingredients or something documentable of that nature.)personally, I don't think that children who can be vaccinated but have not have any place in our schools. Parents who do not want to vaccinate their kids should be told that fine, that's their choice, but now THEY are responsible for ensuring their child has an education that meets the state requirements, as the state cannot allow their personal choice to put other students at unnecessary risk. Who knows, maybe somebody will get entrepreneurial, and decide to create a private school for the unvaccinated where kids can go to class in a giant petri dish.
Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand... - "Witch Hunt" by Rush

SCMP = SovCits/Militias/Patriots.

Thor promised to slay the Ice Giants
God promised to quell all evil
-----
I'm not seeing any Ice Giants...

User avatar
wavey davey
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 pm

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#24

Post by wavey davey » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:36 pm

Oh, that is sickening.When my youngest was in preschool, the chicken pox vaccine became available. Of course, we had him vaccinated. There were subsequent significant outbreaks in his preschool of chicken pox! This was a fancy Montessori, patronized by supposedly educated and affluent parents. ](*,)My oldest daughter was at Montessori at the time that the vaccine became available. I think my wife and I fit into the educated and affluent category. --> But, our pediatrician thought that it was too soon in the evolution of the vaccine to jump on it. She left the decision up to us, but her recommendation was not to use the vaccine at that time. So, that is what we did. Sure enough, our daughter came down with chicken pox within a short time of that, as did several of her classmates. The vaccine was just not in wide spread use then. Fortunately, her case was a mild one.But, I am a firm believer in vaccines in general. In our case, the vaccine was not yet well established. That has all changed now, and in the meantime, our younger daughter most certainly DID get the vaccine.

User avatar
Lani
Posts: 4881
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:01 pm
Location: Some island in the Pacific

Vaccinations & Dangers of Anti-Vaxxers

#25

Post by Lani » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:55 am

I keep silent about this issue in general because the opinions are so polarized. However, sometimes people should listen to each other. It's not that black and white. For some people, however small the numbers might be to you, vaccination can have devastating consequences. If you want more to comply, than don't claim it's all good. For some, it is not. The better route is to acknowledge that some children can be harmed and find a way to determine who they are in advance so that they don't suffer or die.
Insert signature here: ____________________________________________________

Post Reply

Return to “Other Fringe Groups & Individuals”