Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

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Lani
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5726

Post by Lani »

Hey, remember this?


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neeneko
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5727

Post by neeneko »

Lani wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:12 am For those with adblock or other blockers:
DqEwxMLU8AAP9Ca.jpeg
Scary thing is, he and his supporters believe he is being consistent and honest.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5728

Post by voxpopuluxe »

kate520 wrote: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:35 pm There are strong indications that all the chemicals that we dump into our environment, when combined, have deleterious effects on developing fetuses. On their endocrine systems.
Our babies.

These endocrine disruptors have many potential consequences. Including messing with gender hormones. Some of the chemical companies fully knew this even as they continued to douse us with their profitable poisons. We’ve been drenched in disruptors for 60 years.
There have been intersex, trans, and nonbinary people in every society in every part of the world since recorded history began (and there's no reason to believe they weren't there before recorded history, too!) I am extremely skeptical of any claim that this somehow a new thing created by "the chemicals dumped in our enviroment."
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5729

Post by kate520 »

Yes of course.. But there are ongoing studies. Inconclusive, as yet, as there are so many variables.

However
Sex ratio: In a number of regions and countries, fewer boys than girls are being born. There is evidence that unidentified external influences are associated with such changes, but it is not known whether endocrine disruptors are involved.
Abnormalities of male sex organs: Increased numbers of birth defects in male sex organs have been reported. The abnormalities are cryptorchidism, a condition in which the testes remain inside the abdominal area instead of dropping down, and hypospadias, which is a malformation where the opening is on the underside of the penis instead of the end. The possible role of EDC exposure in these human malformations has not been investigated. However, experimental animal studies clearly show that a number of EDCs can disrupt development of the male reproductive system.
Just as Dow and Monsanto have hidden, for decades, the knowledge that their some of their products are bad for us while proclaiming their safety, I’m confident that more will be revealed about endocrine disruptors. :(
ETA
:oops: https://www.greenfacts.org/en/endocrine ... tors-4.htm
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neeneko
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5730

Post by neeneko »

voxpopuluxe wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:19 am There have been intersex, trans, and nonbinary people in every society in every part of the world since recorded history began (and there's no reason to believe they weren't there before recorded history, too!) I am extremely skeptical of any claim that this somehow a new thing created by "the chemicals dumped in our enviroment."

Heh, just the other week I was drooling over an auction for a 15th century medical text on intersex case studies. So yeah, it has been around since well before the industrial revolution. But as with all developmental disorders, something can be happen throughout history and still be exacerbated by something new in the environment.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5731

Post by voxpopuluxe »

kate520 wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:28 pm Yes of course.. But there are ongoing studies. Inconclusive, as yet, as there are so many variables.

However
Sex ratio: In a number of regions and countries, fewer boys than girls are being born. There is evidence that unidentified external influences are associated with such changes, but it is not known whether endocrine disruptors are involved.
Abnormalities of male sex organs: Increased numbers of birth defects in male sex organs have been reported. The abnormalities are cryptorchidism, a condition in which the testes remain inside the abdominal area instead of dropping down, and hypospadias, which is a malformation where the opening is on the underside of the penis instead of the end. The possible role of EDC exposure in these human malformations has not been investigated. However, experimental animal studies clearly show that a number of EDCs can disrupt development of the male reproductive system.
Just as Dow and Monsanto have hidden, for decades, the knowledge that their some of their products are bad for us while proclaiming their safety, I’m confident that more will be revealed about endocrine disruptors. :(
ETA
:oops: https://www.greenfacts.org/en/endocrine ... tors-4.htm
Even that piece, tho, which is careful to note that the evidence for actual physiological damage as a byproduct of endocrine disruptors is suggestive but thin, makes no claims at all about the effects of endocrine disruptors on sexual orientation or gender identity. Might such a thing be possible? Lots of things are possible, I guess. But lacking any evidence of such of connection, such fears frankly sound to me more like the fear that chemicals in the water is turning people gay. And those fears, in turn, often get used to further pathologize LGBTQ people.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5732

Post by kate520 »

I hear you vox. I don’t wish to be seen as a RWNJ counter-factual alarmist, to be sure. ;) But I’m real good at Science. :lol:

I’m basing my concerns on the past actions of chemical companies, whose products have harmed the environment; all the while, they’re claiming they are safe.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5733

Post by voxpopuluxe »

kate520 wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:25 pm ;) But I’m real good at Science. :lol:
I take you at your word! But I'd add that not only is the evidence of endocrine disruptors altering sexual orientation/gender id lacking, but also that it isn't perfectly obvious to me that there's even a clear enough conceptual model of how sexual orientation/gender id works to even know how some chemical might alter someone's sexual orientation/gender id or—for that matter—really even what "altering sexual orientation/gender id" might mean. And I'll further note that this whole conversation implicitly centers heterosexuality as a "default" from which "some thing" is producing an abberation. Which is exactly what I mean by "pathologizing."

The only evidence here of anything is that chemical products have harmed people/the enviroment in the past and might possibly be harming them in unknown ways in the present. Any leap from that to a claim that a product is producing some specific physiological effect needs much, much more evidence than that.

Anyway, I'll stop.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5734

Post by TollandRCR »

One of the things we dump into our water supply resembles estrogen.

Many years ago Texas criminally insane prisoners had their semen examined, counting sperm. The methods are suspect, as is the sample. (The first count of chromosomes in the human genome, from the same population, was wrong by two.)

Today's sperm counts are about half what was seen in that prison population. Is the estrogen-like substance at fault? Are the counts even correct? Are other species affected?
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5735

Post by voxpopuluxe »

TollandRCR wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:24 pm Today's sperm counts are about half what was seen in that prison population. Is the estrogen-like substance at fault? Are the counts even correct? Are other species affected?
Foogie, since we already have the

:pigsfly: :pigsfly: :pigsfly:

smilie, could we have a gay frog smilie, too?
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5736

Post by TollandRCR »

One of the things we dump into our water supply resembles estrogen.

Many years ago Texas criminally insane prisoners had their semen examined, counting sperm. The methods are suspect, as is the sample. (The first count of chromosomes in the human genome, from the same population, was wrong by two.)

Today's sperm counts are about half what was seen in that prison population. Is the estrogen-like substance at fault? Are the counts even correct? Are other species affected?
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5737

Post by RoadScholar »

Scientists also suspect the estrogen mimetics as the cause for the age of female puberty getting younger over the last several decades.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5738

Post by Foggy »

voxpopuluxe wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:32 pm Foogie, since we already have the

:pigsfly: :pigsfly: :pigsfly:

smilie, could we have a gay frog smilie, too?
Too dangerous. :fingerwag:

If a white male citizen of the US over 65 eats a gay frog, he might could instantly turn into an illegal immigrant Chinese lesbian with freckles and six toes on her left foot. :eek2:

Alex Jones said so. :thumbs:
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5739

Post by Sam the Centipede »

RoadScholar wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:46 pm Scientists also suspect the estrogen mimetics as the cause for the age of female puberty getting younger over the last several decades.
"the cause" is, I think, over-stating it. A factor possibly or probably, but other issues such as dietary changes, exercise (or lack of) regimes come into play too.

Definitely best to keep these compounds out of the environment and food chains, both for our health and the planet's health.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5740

Post by Whatever4 »

One of my very favorite young persons has a GoFundMe for top surgery. (He identifies as transboy.) If anyone is interested, as a PERSONAL FAVOR TO ME, in contributing $10 or or so, pm me and I’ll send the link. Or see me on FaceBook. Someday, this person will be a famous performer and you can say you helped.

:bighug:
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5741

Post by neeneko »

Sam the Centipede wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:07 pm "the cause" is, I think, over-stating it. A factor possibly or probably, but other issues such as dietary changes, exercise (or lack of) regimes come into play too.
If I recall correctly, population density is also being looked at as a cause, with one trigger being significant exposure to non-related members of the opposite sex.

Also, if I understand correctly, the average age of hitting puberty has been dropping for around a century for both girls and boys, which does not speak to any particular chemical contamination, but more likely a social or economic shift.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5742

Post by TollandRCR »

Slate, How the Trump Administration’s Radical New Definition of “Sex” Would Legalize Anti-LGBTQ Discrimination, Mark Joseph Stern.

I suspect the VP is a mover in this. Pence is a hater of many things.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5743

Post by TollandRCR »

GQ has a new article Sperm Count Zero?
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5744

Post by RoadScholar »

I first heard of estrogen-mimetic chemicals (mainly in plastics) lowering sperm counts worldwide when I studied Organic Chemistry at CSU Fresno.

In 1979.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5745

Post by Volkonski »


'Report them to me': Tanzanian official asks residents to help hunt gays
Paul Makonda, governor of the East African country's largest city, Dar es Salaam, announced a chilling roundup of gays that he said would start Monday.


https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out ... d_nn_tw_ma
"I have received reports that there are so many homosexuals in our city, and these homosexuals are advertising and selling their services on the internet," Makonda said in a video posted to YouTube this past Monday.

"Therefore, I am announcing this to every citizen of Dar es Salaam: If you know any gays ... report them to me,” he said in the clip, which was translated from Swahili by CNN. Makonda then distributed a phone number so citizens could report gay people.

:snippity:

Makonda also warned international organizations and other countries not to interfere, saying Tanzania has its own “norms.”

:snippity:

Homosexuality is punishable in Tanzania by a prison sentence of 30 years to life, one of the harshest punishments in the world for same-sex intimacy, according to Human Rights Watch.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5746

Post by neeneko »

Volkonski wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:50 am
:snippity:

Makonda also warned international organizations and other countries not to interfere, saying Tanzania has its own “norms.”

:snippity:
Yeah, I wonder how much of a hand certain private american organizations had in this new crackdown.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5747

Post by bob »

WKYT: Rowan Co. Clerk race receives national attention:
In Rowan County on Election Day, one local race is receiving national attention.

The race between Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis and Elwood Caudill Jr. is expected to be a tight race.

Davis is up for reelection for the first time since she refused to give marriage licenses to same-sex couples in 2015. Her decision made national headlines. Tomorrow voters will decide if she keeps her job.

[ * * * ]

Her opponent works just down the hall in the Property Value Administrator office as chief deputy.

[ * * * ]

In 2014, Davis won by about a dozen votes when the pair were candidates for clerk.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5748

Post by bob »

Imagex6 Imagex2 Imagex4 Imagex2
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5749

Post by Chilidog »

Wah. Wah....
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5750

Post by Reality Check »

Kim Davis lost.

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Heather Heyer, November 2016
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