Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

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Dr. Blue
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5701

Post by Dr. Blue » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:22 am

bob wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:22 pm
dunstvangeet wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:15 pm
With their ruling focusing on the bias of the Civil Rights Commission, why did they outright overrule the decision, rather than setting aside the ruling, and remanding it back to the Lower Court for a rehearing? That seems to me to be the right ruling, considering the course that they took.
It seems like a compromise decision, based partially on the fact that the case spanned back to 2012, i.e., pre-Obergefell. It was a way to let this particular litigant win this particular case, but holds open the door for a different case. (Including, theoretically, if this baker again refuses to make a cake for a same-sex wedding.)

So it feels like SCOTUS wanted to dismiss this particular case with prejudice, and the idea was to "punish" the state for its wrongdoing (being biased), to deter it (and other, similar agencies) from doing the same thing.
That's what it looks like to this IANAL as well. I described this decision this way to someone else: it's like a case where a drug dealer is let off because the police improperly gathered evidence. The drug dealer may be guilty as hell, but he goes free because the officials need to be slapped (and "oh you naughty boys, we'll give you another shot at this case anyway" doesn't seem much of a deterrent).

While I hate to see Bundys drug-dealers get away with their crimes, government officials do need to be accountable and held to a high standard.

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5702

Post by Estiveo » Tue Jun 05, 2018 4:41 pm

If I may give my considered opinion as a gay man, after ruminating on all the stories, opinions and hyperbole from all sides: meh. I'd rather have a donut anyway.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5703

Post by dunstvangeet » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:32 pm

After reading the majority opinion, there's actually a lot in here that can be quoted to advance civil rights to begin with.

From Kennedy's opinion:

"Our society has come to the recognition that gay personsand gay couples cannot be treated as social outcasts or as inferior in dignity and worth. For that reason the laws and the Constitution can, and in some instances must, protect them in the exercise of their civil rights. The exercise of their freedom on terms equal to others must be given great weight and respect by the courts."

Another quote: "Nevertheless, while those religious and philosophical objections are protected, it is a general rule that such objections do not allow business owners and other actors in the economy and in society to deny protected persons equal access to goods and services under a neutral and generally applicable public accommodations law."

Another quote (when talking about the Clergy right to refuse to do a wedding ceremony): "Yet if that exception were not confined, then a long list of persons who provide goods and services for marriages and weddings might refuse to do so for gay persons, thus resulting in a community-wide stigma inconsistent with the history and dynamics of civil rights laws that ensure equal access to goods, services, and public accommodations."

Another quote: "It is unexceptional that Colorado law can protect gay persons, just as it can protect other classes of individuals, in acquiring whatever products and services they chooseon the same terms and conditions as are offered to other members of the public. And there are no doubt innumerable goods and services that no one could argue implicate the First Amendment. Petitioners conceded, moreover, that if a baker refused to sell any goods or any cakes for gay weddings, that would be a different matter and the State would have a strong case under this Court’s precedents that this would be a denial of goods and services that went beyond any protected rights of a baker who offers goods and services to the general public and is subject to a neutrally applied and generally applicable public accommodations law."

The way that Kennedy wrote this is almost a quote mine to protect gay rights in the future.

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bob
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5704

Post by bob » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:40 pm

dunstvangeet wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:32 pm
The way that Kennedy wrote this is almost a quote mine to protect gay rights in the future.
:winner:

Too also: Kennedy threw in a citation to Newman v. Piggie Park Enterprises, the civil-rights-era case that basically slammed the door on the argument that religious beliefs were an exception to the federal laws against racial discrimination.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5705

Post by Dr. Blue » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:44 pm

dunstvangeet wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:32 pm
The way that Kennedy wrote this is almost a quote mine to protect gay rights in the future.
Indeed. And I do have something I've been pondering, and would be a good question for the legal minds here: This case was specifically about the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act, and the fact that the state of Colorado designated sexual orientation as a protected class in their civil rights laws. Not all states do that (in fact, I think it's still a minority of states).

But even in states that don't provide protection against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, could this be argued as a religious discrimination issue, and thus the federal Civil Rights Act would apply? Basically, the baker is refusing service because his (potential) customer's lifestyle doesn't comport with the baker's religious beliefs. The baker's entire argument was based on his religion, in fact. How is that not refusing service on the basis of religion?

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5706

Post by vic » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:49 pm


Screenification
‏@ckvanderkaay

New cake purchase policy:

every cake request begins with "I'm gay, and I need a marriage cake." Wait for response, and if they're accommodating, then you can say, "Actually, I need a birthday cake for my son, I just wanted to make sure you weren't a piece of shit."

6:09 AM - 5 Jun 2018

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5707

Post by AndyinPA » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:50 pm

https://thinkprogress.org/bermuda-marri ... a9809cec8/
This year, Bermuda became the first country in the world to undo marriage equality for same-sex couples and that repeal took effect June 1. It lasted less than a week, however, before the country’s Supreme Court ruled against the repeal, upholding the right of same-sex couples’ marriages to be legally recognized.

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5708

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:35 am

“A black woman can invent something for the benefit of humankind.” -Bessie Blount-Griffin, physical therapist, inventor of devices for disabled WWII veterans, and forensic scientist.

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5709

Post by tek » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:09 pm

lgbt.jpg
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There's no way back
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5710

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:21 pm

Only on religious grounds. Or an atheist's sincerely held beliefs which hold a central part in her/his life.

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5711

Post by Orlylicious » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:20 pm

Tomorrow's announcement :P
Human Rights Campaign mobilizes in key states ahead of midterms
By DAVID SIDERS 07/26/2018 07:07 PM EDT
The Human Rights Campaign plans to double its staff and ramp up organizing and volunteer training in key states, as outside groups intensify their campaigns ahead of the November elections, the organization will announce Friday.

The LGBTQ advocacy group said it was hiring an additional 45 organizers and deploying 50 headquarters-based staffers into battleground districts and states, bolstering an existing field staff of 35. The spike in staffing comes a little more than three months ahead of critical midterm elections, with the group focusing on organizing, volunteer engagement and other work in six states: Nevada, Arizona, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. The effort is part of its $26 million HRC Rising campaign.

Like many left-leaning groups, the Human Rights Campaign is investing resources in the two states where Democrats are widely considered to hold their best pickup opportunities for the U.S. Senate, Arizona and Nevada, as well as in states with competitive House races. But officials with the group said the states in which it is organizing were chosen, as well, for their significance beyond 2018. The six states are all perennial battleground states in presidential elections and will factor heavily in the 2020 campaign.

The Human Rights Campaign said it was aiming to turn out 10 million LGBTQ voters and millions of their supporters this election cycle. The group said that since launching HRC Rising, it had helped register more than 25,000 people to vote, while phone banking and canvassing for nearly 330 HRC-endorsed candidates at every level.

“For nearly two years, the LGBTQ community has endured an unrelenting onslaught of attacks by the Trump-Pence administration on our basic civil rights,” JoDee Winterhof, the group’s senior vice president for policy and political affairs, said in a prepared statement. “HRC is seizing this opportunity to change that by doing everything in our power to turn out millions of LGBTQ voters and allies to elect pro-equality senators, representatives, governors, and others who will put Americans first and pull the emergency brake on this hateful regime.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/ ... tes-744758

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5712

Post by Addie » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:08 am

I was about to post this in the Mexico thread, but I thought I'd drop it here, too. An article about the history of gay bars in Mexico City.
PUNCH: One Last Night in Mexico City’s LGBT Time Warp
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5713

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:28 pm

Tennessee joins states in fight to overturn transgender rights ruling

Posted: Wed 4:50 PM, Aug 29, 2018

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (WVLT) -- Tennessee joined 15 other states in asking the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn a decision that ruled workplace anti-discrimination laws extended to transgender workers, CBS affiliate WTVF reported.

Recently, the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a Michigan funeral home had violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act by firing a transgender employee who didn't follow the employer's dress code.

A release from Tennessee AG Herbert H. Slatery stated that the ruling interpreted Title VII's prohibition on discrimination "because of sex" to include discrimination based on an employee's transgender status.

Chris Sanders, Executive Director of the Tennessee Equality Project, said the AG is misinterpreting the law.

"This is picking on a group that is already picked on," said Sanders. "Someone is still being fired because that person doesn't meet the conception of others. It is still sex discrimination."

Tennessee joined other states, Alabama, Arkansas, Nebraska, Kansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Texas and Mississippi, seeking a review of the decision.

The argument is that when Congress enacted Title VII in 1964, it used the word "sex" to mean only biological sex, not gender identity


http://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Tenness ... 23241.html

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5714

Post by TollandRCR » Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 am

The Trump maladministration has announced that it will deny visas to the same sex partners of diplomats. I would favor those countries denying representation both here and abroad to the US. I diubt that any of those countries absolutely must have doplomats here. Trump does not care what they have to say. Isolate Trump!
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5715

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:25 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 am
The Trump maladministration has announced that it will deny visas to the same sex partners of diplomats. I would favor those countries denying representation both here and abroad to the US. I diubt that any of those countries absolutely must have doplomats here. Trump does not care what they have to say. Isolate Trump!
I guess they are preparing for a political incident when the leaders of Luxemburg, Ireland or Serbia wish to visit with their partners. :blackeye:

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5716

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:17 am

It is past time for the world to cease treating Trump as just another Anerican president; he must be treated as a pariah. He is exactly the threat and the aberration that we expected. More than that, he is an evil man. I say to the world: seal off the infection to keep 20th century international achievements alive. Do not deal with the Trump maladministration. This will not harm American citizens, but the unwillingness of foreign administrations to answer a telephone call might be instructive for Trump's advisers.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5717

Post by dunstvangeet » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:47 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:22 am
The Trump maladministration has announced that it will deny visas to the same sex partners of diplomats. I would favor those countries denying representation both here and abroad to the US. I diubt that any of those countries absolutely must have doplomats here. Trump does not care what they have to say. Isolate Trump!
That's not exactly what they announced. They announced that in order to qualify for a visa, the same-sex partners of diplomats had to be legally married to them. So, if they're legally married, then they get a visa under the spousal passport.

The problem comes that alot of these countries don't have same-sex marriage, and don't recongize same-sex marriages. So, there is literally no way for members of those countries to get a visa for their same-sex partner.

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5718

Post by RTH10260 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:50 am

In the UK (N.Ireland)
Christian bakers win court fight after rejecting gay marriage cake
Frances Gibb, Legal Editor
October 11 2018, 12:00am, The Times

The Christian owners of a bakery have won a landmark ruling by the Supreme Court that they were entitled to refuse to make a cake decorated with the words “Support Gay Marriage”.

The McArthur family won a unanimous decision from the judges that they did not discriminate against Gareth Lee when they said that they could not in conscience produce the cake.

Daniel and Amy McArthur, who run Ashers Baking Company in Belfast, believe that the only form of marriage consistent with biblical teaching and acceptable to God is that between a man and a woman.


[rest behind paywall]
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/chri ... -sql0s8mg9

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5719

Post by Volkonski » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:08 pm


NBC News

Verified account

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The Trump admin. may be considering redefining gender as an unchangeable condition determined solely by a person's biology, according to a leaked memo draft obtained by The New York Times. - @NBCOUT
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― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5720

Post by maydijo » Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:43 pm

And what about people who are born intersex?

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RTH10260
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5721

Post by RTH10260 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:50 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:08 pm
https:// twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1054115382477406211
NBC News @NBCNews

The Trump admin. may be considering redefining gender as an unchangeable condition determined solely by a person's biology, according to a leaked memo draft obtained by The New York Times. - @NBCOUT
What law do they intend to use as a hook to implement such a crazy idea? If they think of using it in rules and regulations I bet the courts will trash them. Would Congress be really go along with a legislation that goes against all scientific interpretation to please the Evangelicals?

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5722

Post by RTH10260 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:52 pm

maydijo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:43 pm
And what about people who are born intersex?
Government ordered snippety-snip to be paid by the patient of course. :brickwallsmall:

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5723

Post by neeneko » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:00 pm

RTH10260 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:52 pm
maydijo wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:43 pm
And what about people who are born intersex?
Government ordered snippety-snip to be paid by the patient of course. :brickwallsmall:
I would not be surprised if the admin started pushing for a return to the days of infant sex reassignment surgery where they bill (but to not tell) the parents.

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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5724

Post by kate520 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:35 pm

There are strong indications that all the chemicals that we dump into our environment, when combined, have deleterious effects on developing fetuses. On their endocrine systems.
Our babies.

These endocrine disruptors have many potential consequences. Including messing with gender hormones. Some of the chemical companies fully knew this even as they continued to douse us with their profitable poisons. We’ve been drenched in disruptors for 60 years.

Some of our babies are as young as 5 when they “announce” their true gender to the world. They know that appearances can be deceiving. They and only they know how they truly feel inside.

For the administration to even think about making this ruling greatly disturbs me.
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Re: Gay Rights - LGBT - Same Sex Marriage

#5725

Post by Notorial Dissent » Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:23 am

Agreed, but with their track record hardly a surprise.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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