Water Troubles

User avatar
Azastan
Posts: 2150
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:42 am

Re: Water Troubles

Post #276 by Azastan » Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:38 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Addie wrote:SacBee

BREAKING: Marysville, Yuba County evacuated as Oroville spillway collapse feared

Heavy traffic amid evacuation

5:59 p.m.

Aerial photos show traffic backed up along Highway 70 as people from Oroville try to escape to the north.

Flows boosted to try to avoid collapse

5:52 p.m.

Releases through the main spillway at Oroville Dam have been boosted to 100,000 cubic feet per second from 55,000 cfs in hopes of easing pressure on the emergency spillway before a failure occurs, officials said Sunday night.

Kevin Dossey, a Department of Water Resources engineer and spokesman said “it might help” to alleviate the pressure.

So far, Dossey said, the emergency spillway’s concrete lip at the top has not crumbled, although the hillside had “eroded to within several feet” of the big concrete structure.


To give some perspective, the typical summer flow of the Mississippi in St. Louis is about 100,000 cubic feet per second. That's a lot of water.


My husband's mother lives in that area :( .



User avatar
magdalen77
Posts: 5384
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Down in the cellar

Re: Water Troubles

Post #277 by magdalen77 » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:01 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:Jackson has a population of about 200,000 people and over half of them are under a boil water notice for the foreseeable future. One 48" water main has been broken for 3 weeks and another broke a week ago. They are both spewing water like geysers so god only knows how many millions of gallons have already been wasted. They tried to fix one yesterday but the damage was so much more extensive than they realized they just basically backed out, turned the water back on and said they'll be back when they can figure out how to fix it. Meanwhile, we've had zero water pressure for 2 days, restaurants are closing all over town, the mayoral candidates are passing out free water and we're under another fucking boil water notice. We get the notices half a dozen times a year due to neighborhood water main breaks (usually 12" lines, though) and they last about 3 days at the time. This time, they're estimating at least 2 weeks.


Gosh, we had a far bigger water main break in Philly and it was fixed in a matter of days. We routinely have mains breaking in Philly and the surrounding 'burbs, especially this time of years. For a 6", 8" or 12" main the repairs usually take around 12 hours. I know because I do phone duty and they have to notify us any time it happens.



User avatar
Sugar Magnolia
Posts: 7947
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:44 am

Re: Water Troubles

Post #278 by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:49 am

magdalen77 wrote:
Sugar Magnolia wrote:Jackson has a population of about 200,000 people and over half of them are under a boil water notice for the foreseeable future. One 48" water main has been broken for 3 weeks and another broke a week ago. They are both spewing water like geysers so god only knows how many millions of gallons have already been wasted. They tried to fix one yesterday but the damage was so much more extensive than they realized they just basically backed out, turned the water back on and said they'll be back when they can figure out how to fix it. Meanwhile, we've had zero water pressure for 2 days, restaurants are closing all over town, the mayoral candidates are passing out free water and we're under another fucking boil water notice. We get the notices half a dozen times a year due to neighborhood water main breaks (usually 12" lines, though) and they last about 3 days at the time. This time, they're estimating at least 2 weeks.


Gosh, we had a far bigger water main break in Philly and it was fixed in a matter of days. We routinely have mains breaking in Philly and the surrounding 'burbs, especially this time of years. For a 6", 8" or 12" main the repairs usually take around 12 hours. I know because I do phone duty and they have to notify us any time it happens.

The 12" main break a few blocks from us took 17 months to fix. Of course the street is now torn up from the water so it will have to be repaved in about 10 years, too. The 8" main break by my daughter's house has been running for 3+ years at this point. The city "has it on the list" but since the water is running down a hill and not into people's yards it keeps getting bumped down the list while they repair (for some definition of repair) more critical breaks.

Meanwhile, our new electronic Siemens meters are so fucked up the city isn't even cutting service for non-payment because they can't figure out which of the 6 and 8 thousand dollar bills are legit and which are due to the Siemens bad meters.



User avatar
magdalen77
Posts: 5384
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:43 pm
Location: Down in the cellar

Re: Water Troubles

Post #279 by magdalen77 » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:39 am

Not to pretend that everything is all peachy in Philly. Some of these mains are from the 1800s* and they're breaking all of the time. PWD is always running around with the equivalent of stethoscopes trying to figure which main will break next.

*We have some of the oldest water mains in the country and there are miles and miles of them.



User avatar
TollandRCR
Posts: 18699
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Water Troubles

Post #280 by TollandRCR » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:16 am

Some Southern cities permitted the use of paper mains to connect residences to the street main (they did not call them "paper"). I wonder if any of the troublesome mains in Jackson could be paper.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
RoadScholar
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Baltimore
Occupation: Historic Restoration Woodworker
Contact:

Re: Water Troubles

Post #281 by RoadScholar » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:44 am

Baltimore had the first gas-lighting (IIRC) in America. We used to have (still do?) wooden gas mains. Yikes.


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.

User avatar
Sugar Magnolia
Posts: 7947
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:44 am

Re: Water Troubles

Post #282 by Sugar Magnolia » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:10 am

TollandRCR wrote:Some Southern cities permitted the use of paper mains to connect residences to the street main (they did not call them "paper"). I wonder if any of the troublesome mains in Jackson could be paper.

Our big lead scare a few months ago was because the joints of the residential feeds was soldered with lead at the joints connecting them to the city mains and the pipes were corroding to the point they were leaching the lead solder.

Our biggest problem here, besides the FUBAR water dept and ancient infrastructure is the Yazoo clay we have to deal with. When it's dry, it's as hard as a rock (people actually make pottery out of it) but when it's saturated, it can expand 30% or more. The constant shrinking and expanding breaks the pipes, the roads, the foundations on houses, my brother's sliding glass door...My neighbor has a vein of it running through her yard and it shifted the bottom half of her driveway over about 8". Big crack all the way across it one day and about 2 weeks later the whole bottom had scooted over to the left without adding any more cracks. Sink holes are also a huge problem here due to the soil issues. It is interesting, in a detached sort of way, to watch sink holes develop over a period of days, from a small pothole, to something that will take out your front end, to a water-filled hole surrounded by barricades. One street I drive on to get to the studio runs along the river and foot-deep potholes literally develop overnight. Like huge chunks of asphalt just disappear into thin air.

They are rebuilding the interstate south of I-20 that was already completely rebuilt about 20 years ago because it was not only partially built on Yazoo clay, but the clay they did bother to dig out they just dumped to the side, so when they rebuilt the frontage roads, they were on double the usual amount of clay. They started the initial rebuild about 10 years ago, got half of it done and had to start over after doing nothing with it for 2 years while they reassessed and re-engineered the plans. It's still a construction zone all these years later.

As for the paper mains, we do have something that looks like heavy tarpaper composite looking stuff pipes in our system in some parts of town. They dug up a chunk of it in front of our building downtown (oldest part of town) when they were jetting the storm drain out.



User avatar
HeatherGray
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun May 08, 2016 9:06 pm
Location: Colorado
Occupation: retired systems analyst

Re: Water Troubles

Post #283 by HeatherGray » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:27 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote:Our biggest problem here, besides the FUBAR water dept and ancient infrastructure is the Yazoo clay we have to deal with. When it's dry, it's as hard as a rock (people actually make pottery out of it) but when it's saturated, it can expand 30% or more. The constant shrinking and expanding breaks the pipes, the roads, the foundations on houses, my brother's sliding glass door...My neighbor has a vein of it running through her yard and it shifted the bottom half of her driveway over about 8". Big crack all the way across it one day and about 2 weeks later the whole bottom had scooted over to the left without adding any more cracks. Sink holes are also a huge problem here due to the soil issues. It is interesting, in a detached sort of way, to watch sink holes develop over a period of days, from a small pothole, to something that will take out your front end, to a water-filled hole surrounded by barricades. One street I drive on to get to the studio runs along the river and foot-deep potholes literally develop overnight. Like huge chunks of asphalt just disappear into thin air.


We had a similar clay under our slab foundation when we lived in Plano TX for two years. The first time someone told us to make sure we kept our foundations watered we were like, right. The explanation was that watering the foundation kept it from drying out and shrinking. As it was the seller of the house had to do some minor pier work before we bought it.

That stuff was nasty, wet or dry. I once had to dig it out of a horse's foot and thought I was going to break my hand.



User avatar
TollandRCR
Posts: 18699
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Water Troubles

Post #284 by TollandRCR » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:53 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote:As for the paper mains, we do have something that looks like heavy tarpaper composite looking stuff pipes in our system in some parts of town. They dug up a chunk of it in front of our building downtown (oldest part of town) when they were jetting the storm drain out.

That sounds exactly like what led from our house in Mount Vernon/Alexandria VA to the street. It failed all along the line almost simultaneously. It was said that this was the only choice immediately after WW II. I can believe that: my parents' house, constructed at the same time, had metal tiles in the bathrooms. They rusted out.

I drew a lesson from this: don't have wars.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Re: Water Troubles

Post #285 by Volkonski » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:51 am

Both quantity and quality problems threaten Long Island's water supply. If significant sea water intrusion is happening on the North Fork that would be devastating for the farms and vineyards that drive the local economy. On the rest of the Island chemical contamination may require expensive water treatment driving up the costs of water for all purposes.

In retrospect it was probably a mistake to let all those thirsty people move from New York City to Long Island in the years after WW II. ;)

As groundwater quality crisis worsens, it’s time to tap Pine Barrens water reserve

http://riverheadlocal.com/2017/03/16/gr ... r-reserve/

The U.S. Geological Survey will shortly set up four test wells in Riverhead Town to track salt water intrusion in North Fork groundwater, in the aquifers where all our drinking water originates. Salt water seeps into the aquifers when fresh water is extracted by wells faster than it is replenished with rainwater. That partly explains our quantity problem.

:snippity:

The quality problem with our groundwater is far worse. As science advances with ways to detect pollution and its effects on both youngsters and adults, we have now discovered that most of LI’s untreated groundwater contains “trace amounts” of a cancer causing chemical called 1,4-dioxane. “Trace amounts” seems a calming phrase, but not when it ends up in “finish filtered” drinking water, with the harsh realities of chronic exposure. 1,4-dioxane is an “unregulated organic compound,” and should be limited to no more than 50 parts per billion, according to N.Y. state. Now we learn even at that level, it is a dangerous health threat.

:snippity:

The Suffolk County Water Authority is the largest public water supplier on LI. In fact, they are the largest national supplier using 100% groundwater outside of Miami-Dade in Florida, which relies on the Everglades. SCWA, operates 240 separate water supply systems, boasting huge filters at more and more of its well sites, including in Southold Town. Many of these filters are 15 feet high and 12 feet in diameter, each pair filled with $40,000 worth of crushed carbon. Their use of these filters has intensified, many going to double and triple annual change-outs to keep up desperately with consistent increases in contamination and potability standards.

Other water districts suffer a worsening fate. Most public water customers get their water from a well field or pump station that is only a few short miles away. Water transmission lines (aqueducts) are only used to move water for short distances. According to the LI Aquifer Commission’s report of 2012, rainfall recharges our groundwater aquifers in the amount of 300 billion gallons each year. This rainfall blends with surface toxins all across Long Island (except in preserved areas) and seeps into the groundwater, slowly but surely.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 23751
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ (Rawly NC)
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: Water Troubles

Post #286 by Foggy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:44 am



I'm gonna zip up my guitar,
Yeah, and when I've gone too far,
I'm gonna zip down my guitar.

Grumpy Old Guy
Posts: 784
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:24 am

Re: Water Troubles

Post #287 by Grumpy Old Guy » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:24 pm

Foggy wrote:[bbvideo=560,315]


We had a couple of Tom Lehrer records when I was young. My dad was a mathematician and enjoyed the fact that Lehrer was one too.

I remember the song about the elements, sung to the tune of the "Modern Major General" ending with "These are the only ones of which the news has come to Harvard. There may be many others but they haven't been discovered". (pronounced Havaad, discovaad)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major-General%27s_Song

There were also tunes about poisoning pigeons in the park and the old dope peddler, who gives the kids free samples.."today's young innocent faces are tomorrow's clientele."



User avatar
RoadScholar
Posts: 5469
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Baltimore
Occupation: Historic Restoration Woodworker
Contact:

Re: Water Troubles

Post #288 by RoadScholar » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:53 pm

"Be Prepared" 8-)


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 19600
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Water Troubles

Post #289 by Addie » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:17 pm

Reuters

Lead poisoning afflicts neighborhoods across California

Dozens of California communities have experienced recent rates of childhood lead poisoning that surpass those of Flint, Michigan, with one Fresno locale showing rates nearly three times higher, blood testing data obtained by Reuters shows.

The data shows how lead poisoning affects even a state known for its environmental advocacy, with high rates of childhood exposure found in a swath of the Bay Area and downtown Los Angeles. And the figures show that, despite national strides in eliminating lead-based products, hazards remain in areas far from the Rust Belt or East Coast regions filled with old housing and legacy industry.

In one central Fresno zip code, 13.6 percent of blood tests on children under six years old came back high for lead. That compares to 5 percent across the city of Flint during its recent water contamination crisis. In all, Reuters found at least 29 Golden State neighborhoods where children had elevated lead tests at rates at least as high as in Flint.

“It’s a widespread problem and we have to get a better idea of where the sources of exposure are,” said California Assembly member Bill Quirk, who chairs the state legislature’s Committee on Environmental Safety and Toxic Materials.

(To see the Reuters interactive map of U.S. lead hotspots, click here reut.rs/2h55POf)


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 19600
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Water Troubles

Post #290 by Addie » Mon May 01, 2017 9:31 pm

Associated Press

Rich clash with working class in new East Coast oyster war

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. — Oystermen, pirates and police clashed violently more than a century ago over who could collect the Chesapeake Bay's tasty and lucrative oysters. As the shellfish makes a comeback, a modern-day oyster war is brewing, this time between wealthy waterfront property owners and working-class fishermen.

Over the past five years, oyster production has doubled on the East Coast, driven by new farming methods, cleaner water and Americans' growing taste for orders on the half shell. The resurgence has led to unprecedented resistance from coastal Virginians who want to maintain picturesque views from their waterfront homes and has fueled a debate over access to public waterways.

"These people can't have it all," said Chris Ludford, an oysterman in Virginia Beach who sells to nearby farm-to-table restaurants.

Ludford said he faces fierce pushback along a Chesapeake Bay tributary from people with "a $2,000 painting in their house of some old bearded oysterman tonging oysters.

"But they don't want to look out their window and see the real thing," he said.

Homeowners say the growing number of oystermen — dressed in waders and often tending cages of shellfish — spoil their views and invade their privacy. Residents also worry about less access to the water and the safety of boaters and swimmers.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Tiredretiredlawyer
Posts: 2926
Joined: Tue May 10, 2016 2:56 pm
Location: Animal Planet
Occupation: Permanent probationary slave to 5 dogs, 2 cats, the neighbor's cat, and 1 horse

Re: Water Troubles

Post #291 by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue May 02, 2017 9:14 am

The more things change, the more they stay the same.


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

User avatar
Volkonski
Posts: 12345
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:44 pm
Location: Texas Gulf Coast and North Fork of Long Island
Occupation: Retired Mechanical Engineer

Re: Water Troubles

Post #292 by Volkonski » Tue May 02, 2017 11:04 am

In 1982 Nova broadcast an episode titled "Goodbye Louisiana" which described how much of southern Louisiana might be lost to erosion. That is happening now.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1440585/

There will be a new series of articles on this matter-

New York Times and The Times-Picayune form coastal reporting partnership

http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/ ... mes-p.html

The Times-Picayune and The New York Times have begun a partnership that will explore the causes and potentially catastrophic effects of coastal erosion and sea level rise along the Louisiana coast.

The reporting collaboration will combine the resources of two environmental reporting initiatives announced earlier this year: The Times-Picayune's Louisiana coastal reporting team, made possible in part by the Fund for Environmental Journalism, a grant-making program of the Society of Environmental Journalists; and The New York Times' climate team, which focuses visual, explanatory and investigative journalism on the calamities caused by climate change around the world.

"No other news organization in Louisiana understands the state's coastal crisis better, or devotes more resources to covering it, than The Times-Picayune," said Mark Lorando, editor of The Times-Picayune and vice president of content for NOLA.com. "And no news organization in the world is more committed to documenting the global ramifications of climate change than The New York Times. By joining forces, we can tell this important national story in a powerful way."


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

User avatar
tek
Posts: 1582
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:02 pm
Location: Happy Valley, MA
Occupation: Damned if I know

Re: Water Troubles

Post #293 by tek » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:13 pm

"Towns regret selling public water systems amid budget shortfalls, neglected infrastructure"
http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/07/towns_regret_selling_public_wa.html


We are so far down the rabbit hole..

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 19600
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Water Troubles

Post #294 by Addie » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:42 am

Grist

Rising seas could force a large-scale retreat from U.S. shores within decades.

A new study by the Union of Concerned Scientists offers us the best look yet into how coastal communities will experience debilitating inundation this century.

Without sharp reductions in emissions, by 2100, parts of every coastal county in the continental United States will experience “chronic flooding that makes normal routines impossible” — including 24 percent of the city of Boston, 33 percent of Virginia Beach, and 54 percent of Miami.

Some especially vulnerable places, like Miami Beach (94 percent) and Galveston, Texas, (90 percent) would be essentially uninhabitable. The report predicts that relocation will be the only option in these areas.



For another eye-opening example, take the image above. By 2100, the New York and New Jersey area could experience Hurricane Sandy–level flooding twice per month. Yikes.

The study takes a fresh approach by examining the effects of tidal flooding, which varies significantly based on local geography. It also incorporates the latest science on sea-level rise, including new information about melting in Antarctica and the fact that ocean levels are rising at different rates around the world (in the U.S., the East Coast and Gulf Coast will be hit especially hard).


Interactive map


¡Qué vergüenza!


Return to “Social Issues”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest