Chauvin Jury deliberation poll

[sugar magnolia]

I wonder if the jurors think, every time Nelson says "non-lethal force", "but he DIED so it isn't non-lethal"?

[sugar magnolia]

I don't think Nelson knows what physiological means either.

[LM K]

Is it me, or is Nelson going on way too long? He's losing me, and I'm used to boring crap.

[sugar magnolia]

Is it me, or is Nelson going on way too long? He's losing me, and I'm used to boring crap.

2.5 hours so far and no sign of slowing down so I'm turning it off and going take a shower. If he ever finishes, the jury will get a lunch break then Blackwell to wrap it all up. I should be back by then.

[LM K]

The judge just interrupted the defense to take the lunch break. He apologized for interrupting the defense, but said they have to break.

Lunch is 30 minutes.

I hope jurors get caffeinated if they plan to get through the afternoon.

Nelson is guaranteeing the the jury will not deliberate until tomorrow, thus the jurors will have all evening to ruminate over the prosecution's rebuttal. Not smart.

Washington Post court reporter said that evidence show you have 45-60 minutes before you lose the juror.

Jurors are probably getting pissed off with Nelson. It's after 2pm, and jurors are just now getting to eat lunch. And the jury is going to be sequestered for a night after getting no deliberations (or a tiny bit) done. Not smart of Nelson.

[sterngard friegen]

I need to change my forecast to tomorrow before lunch. I didn't realize that Nelson was going to filibuster the jury -- and really piss them off.

As for the angry crowd, I hope the jurors all remember that terrifying, superhuman 9 year old girl who watched the murder. She must have been a real threat to Chauvin.

[sugar magnolia]

The judge just interrupted the defense to take the lunch break. He apologized for interrupting the defense, but said they have to break.

Lunch is 30 minutes.

I hope jurors get caffeinated if they plan to get through the afternoon.

Nelson is guaranteeing the the jury will not deliberate until tomorrow, thus the jurors will have all evening to ruminate over the prosecution's rebuttal. Not smart.

Washington Post court reporter said that evidence show you have 45-60 minutes before you lose the juror.

Jurors are probably getting pissed off with Nelson. It's after 2pm, and jurors are just now getting to eat lunch. And the jury is going to be sequestered for a night after getting no deliberations (or a tiny bit) done. Not smart of Nelson.

He knew he was going to be "long-winded" (his words, several times) and he took over at about 11:40, so why didn't he ask for the lunch break before he started talking? Or plan a logical break point in his closing? Attorneys can do that, can't they?

[sugar magnolia]

I need to change my forecast to tomorrow before lunch. I didn't realize that Nelson was going to filibuster the jury -- and really piss them off.

As for the angry crowd, I hope the jurors all remember that terrifying, superhuman 9 year old girl who watched the murder. She must have been a real threat to Chauvin.

Yeah, the angry crowd who was so hostile and scary they didn't even step off the curb.

Were the other 3 officers not called to testify because they have also been charged? I'm assuming the answer is yes but I don't know that for sure. Will Chauvin's verdict have any bearing on the other cases? Can it be used as evidence? Will they basically have to mount the same case 3 more times?

[LM K]

I need to change my forecast to tomorrow before lunch. I didn't realize that Nelson was going to filibuster the jury -- and really piss them off.

As for the angry crowd, I hope the jurors all remember that terrifying, superhuman 9 year old girl who watched the murder. She must have been a real threat to Chauvin.

Sternie: Is there anything effective in the defense's closing argument?

On what planet would a 3 hour closing be a smart move?

My Ms. Shrinky Lady opinion; the jurors are going to be so bored, frustrated, and confused by the defense's closing that they aren't going to consider it at all. They will likely try to be thoughtful about the defense's arguments, but emotionally and cognitively, they can't spend anymore time on the defense. They'll mean well, but Nelson has abused any good will he could have obtained today.

[sugar magnolia]

I need to change my forecast to tomorrow before lunch. I didn't realize that Nelson was going to filibuster the jury -- and really piss them off.

As for the angry crowd, I hope the jurors all remember that terrifying, superhuman 9 year old girl who watched the murder. She must have been a real threat to Chauvin.

Sternie: Is there anything effective in the defense's closing argument?

On what planet would a 3 hour closing be a smart move?

My Ms. Shrinky Lady opinion; the jurors are going to be so bored, frustrated, and confused by the defense's closing that they aren't going to consider it at all. They will likely try to be thoughtful about the defense's arguments, but emotionally and cognitively, they can't spend anymore time on the defense. They'll mean well, but Nelson has abused any good will he could have obtained today.

Not to mention the fact that Nelson kept showing clips from the Chauvin snuff film. I believe I would have avoided that.

[LM K]

Defense is back. Nelson is flustered.

Oh, and Nelson said the car was running because we never see video of an officer touching the keys to turn it off.

[Jim]

Nelson is guaranteeing the the jury will not deliberate until tomorrow, thus the jurors will have all evening to ruminate over the prosecution's rebuttal. Not smart.

You sure he's not going to drone on and on so the day ends with his closing and rebuttal doesn't happen till tomorrow? That way, the jurors will ruminate about the defense's closing and not the rebuttal?

[sugar magnolia]

"We know from his hospital records that his heart was beating at 219 over 160 and he didn't die that day."

What the FUCK would make him put that in the jury's mind 30 seconds before he finally quit talking?

[LM K]

Defense has finished.

[sterngard friegen]

I need to change my forecast to tomorrow before lunch. I didn't realize that Nelson was going to filibuster the jury -- and really piss them off.

As for the angry crowd, I hope the jurors all remember that terrifying, superhuman 9 year old girl who watched the murder. She must have been a real threat to Chauvin.

Sternie: Is there anything effective in the defense's closing argument?

On what planet would a 3 hour closing be a smart move?

My Ms. Shrinky Lady opinion; the jurors are going to be so bored, frustrated, and confused by the defense's closing that they aren't going to consider it at all. They will likely try to be thoughtful about the defense's arguments, but emotionally and cognitively, they can't spend anymore time on the defense. They'll mean well, but Nelson has abused any good will he could have obtained today.

That Floyd's blood oxygen was 98%. That was buried early on. I would have put that last.

[LM K]

Nelson is guaranteeing the the jury will not deliberate until tomorrow, thus the jurors will have all evening to ruminate over the prosecution's rebuttal. Not smart.

You sure he's not going to drone on and on so the day ends with his closing and rebuttal doesn't happen till tomorrow? That way, the jurors will ruminate about the defense's closing and not the rebuttal?

God, I hope not.

[Jim]

God, I hope not.

You win!

[LM K]

Lawyers are talking with the judge. Nelson just said he can't remember saying that Chauvin thought he was following his training. Nelson confused even himself.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

Lawyers are talking with the judge. Nelson just said he can't remember saying that Chauvin thought he was following his training. Nelson confused even himself.

Relevance? Guessing that lawyer couldn't claim that without having Chauvin on the stand?

[zekeb]

That Floyd's blood oxygen was 98%. That was buried early on. I would have put that last.

How did they know his blood O2 was 98%? They noted my blood O2 a couple of weeks ago using a pulse oximeter. It was a device they put on my finger and it somehow read the O2 level as my blood was pumping through my body. If I slowed my breathing down for more than a few seconds, my O2 level would began to drop. Once blood is exposed to air, it will oxygenate. I'm not a medical person by a long shot, but how do you read that on a dead person?

[sterngard friegen]

That Floyd's blood oxygen was 98%. That was buried early on. I would have put that last.

How did they know his blood O2 was 98%? They noted my blood O2 a couple of weeks ago using a pulse oximeter. It was a device they put on my finger and it somehow read the O2 level as my blood was pumping through my body. If I slowed my breathing down for more than a few seconds, my O2 level would began to drop. Once blood is exposed to air, it will oxygenate. I'm not a medical person by a long shot, but how do you read that on a dead person?

Dr. Tobin testified to it on rebuttal.

ETA: The elite Jerry Blackwell is taking Nelson's closing apart. Point by point.

[fierceredpanda]

Blackwell is killing it on rebuttal, and pillorying Nelson for misstating the law on causation.

[neeneko]

My Ms. Shrinky Lady opinion; the jurors are going to be so bored, frustrated, and confused by the defense's closing that they aren't going to consider it at all. They will likely try to be thoughtful about the defense's arguments, but emotionally and cognitively, they can't spend anymore time on the defense. They'll mean well, but Nelson has abused any good will he could have obtained today.

I wonder if it was targeted not at 'the jury', but one or two who are looking for an excuse? Ramble for hours and there is bound to be something a person can latch onto, and the prosecution is not going to be able to respond (or maybe even remember) everything.

[sugar magnolia]

That Floyd's blood oxygen was 98%. That was buried early on. I would have put that last.

How did they know his blood O2 was 98%? They noted my blood O2 a couple of weeks ago using a pulse oximeter. It was a device they put on my finger and it somehow read the O2 level as my blood was pumping through my body. If I slowed my breathing down for more than a few seconds, my O2 level would began to drop. Once blood is exposed to air, it will oxygenate. I'm not a medical person by a long shot, but how do you read that on a dead person?

They did an ABG draw at the hospital.

The whole business about the blood oxygen is pretty confusing the way they're explaining it, too. Your O2 level can be normal, as George Floyd's was, and yet you still die from anoxia. Asphyxiation may make your O2 drop, but not necessarily. O2 to your brain stops when your heart stops providing blood to the brain. That doesn't affect the O2 saturation in your blood, it just means the brain can't use it.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

That Floyd's blood oxygen was 98%. That was buried early on. I would have put that last.

How did they know his blood O2 was 98%? They noted my blood O2 a couple of weeks ago using a pulse oximeter. It was a device they put on my finger and it somehow read the O2 level as my blood was pumping through my body. If I slowed my breathing down for more than a few seconds, my O2 level would began to drop. Once blood is exposed to air, it will oxygenate. I'm not a medical person by a long shot, but how do you read that on a dead person?

They tested the arterial blood itself. It's more accurate than a pulse oximeter, and the arterial blood wouldn't have been exposed to air before testing. As to the 98%, the resuscitation attempts could account for that, and CO takes longer to leave the system than they tried to revive him (half-life of 5 hours).