Derek Chauvin trial: The murder of George Floyd

[Uninformed]

Is a divorce the “go to” option when your partner may be sued etc?

[sugar magnolia]

Okay, I should have listened to the whole thing with the defense lawyer before asking my previous question because he also said "as soon as the jury hears that Floyd was convicted of a home invasion against a pregnant women" it will all be over for the prosecution and then went on to explain why the judge will have to let that info come in, and "9 and a half minutes isn't that long." Neither of those statements strike me as logical. It sounds, to me, like desperate stretching on the part of a defense attorney.

[sugar magnolia]

Is a divorce the “go to” option when your partner may be sued etc?

Possibly. There was some chatter about protecting assets, and where those assets may have come from, at the beginning but I don't remember the details. Seems like she may have stood by him until his actual arrest (3 or 4 days?) but I may be wrong about that.

[sad-cafe]

Did anything happen to Tao or the other two officers?

[sugar magnolia]

Did anything happen to Tao or the other two officers?

Their trial is scheduled for Aug or Sept I believe. Judge Cahill originally ruled they would all 4 be tried together, then backtracked and decided to try Chauvin separately.

[sad-cafe]

oh good I did not know that.


I assume they also got fired when the Murderer got fired?

[LM K]

I have been reading about the trial rather than watching it. So many of the witnesses are traumatized by Floyd's death. It's a bit overwhelming for me.

I think the prosecution has made a solid case against Chauvin. Chauvin would need brilliant lawyers to work through a plausible defense after all of the prosecution's witnesses.

The one point that the defense is making some possible headway on is the issue of the crowd. But if a cop can't handle being called a bum or being told that he should be slapped, that cop should not be on the street. And, officer Thao was doing a really good job of handling the crowd. Chauvin could clearly see that Thao had the crowd well managed.

Officer Lane was clear when he asked Chauvin if they should reposition Floyd. Lane asked this after Floyd was handcuffed but still conscious. Based on today's testimony, we know that a cop of 19 years refused to follow protocol even when another officer was essentially reminding him of official protocol.

"'While Mr. Floyd was being restrained on the ground, on his stomach, with Mr. Chauvin’s knee pressed onto his neck, Mr. Lane asked whether Mr. Floyd should be turned onto his side.

Mr. Chauvin said, “No, he’s staying put where we got him.”

Mr. Lane then said he was worried Mr. Floyd might be having a medical emergency.

“Well that’s why we got the ambulance coming,” Mr. Chauvin responded, according to one of the transcripts.

“OK, I suppose,” Mr. Lane replied, adding soon after, “I think he’s passing out.”

At that moment, a bystander shouted: “He’s not even breathing right now, bro, you think that’s cool? You think that’s cool, right?” Other onlookers repeatedly asked if Mr. Floyd had a pulse.

“You got one?” Mr. Lane asked. “I can’t find one,” Mr. Kueng said. “Huh?” Mr. Chauvin replied. Mr. Kueng tried again, and again said he could not find a pulse.

More than two minutes then went by, according to timestamps on the transcript of Mr. Kueng’s body camera footage. Still, Mr. Chauvin kept his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck, videos show."'

Chauvin only moved when EMTs became quite assertive with Chauvin.

How much longer would Chauvin keep his knee on Floyd's neck had EMTs not forced him to move?

[LM K]

Is a divorce the “go to” option when your partner may be sued etc?

Possibly. There was some chatter about protecting assets, and where those assets may have come from, at the beginning but I don't remember the details. Seems like she may have stood by him until his actual arrest (3 or 4 days?) but I may be wrong about that.

Chauvin's wife filed for divorce the day before or after Chauvin's arrest; 3-4 days after Floyd's murder. (Different sources give slightly different dates). I think Chauvin's wife likely contacted a lawyer the day after Floyd's murder.

Both have been charged with 9 counts of tax evasion.

[RVInit]

Wow. So, in addition to everything else, it came in this morning that Chauvin applied pain techniques once Floyd was cuffed behind his back, laying on the ground on his face, and four police officers on top of him. Pinching his fingers together at the same time as he was bending his wrist back against the handcuffs. Also, I can't turn the sound on all the time (meetings on and off all morning), but I saw what I believe was Chauvin's body camera showing that he was using his just his fingertips on the police vehicle to help his balance. In other words trying not to put any weight on the car. Seemed to me like intentionally making sure his weight was completely on his knees, one of which was on Floyd's neck and the other on his back.

Depraved. Just absolutely depraved.

[filly]

Is a divorce the “go to” option when your partner may be sued etc?

Possibly. There was some chatter about protecting assets, and where those assets may have come from, at the beginning but I don't remember the details. Seems like she may have stood by him until his actual arrest (3 or 4 days?) but I may be wrong about that.

Chauvin's wife filed for divorce the day before or after Chauvin's arrest; 3-4 days after Floyd's murder. (Different sources give slightly different dates). I think Chauvin's wife likely contacted a lawyer the day after Floyd's murder.

Both have been charged with 9 counts of tax evasion.

I've always suspected she might have been a victim of domestic abuse.

[LM K]

Is it just me, or is the defense making things worse for Chauvin?

(Almost all are not actual quotes.)

*"Chauvin's knee is on Floyd's lower neck, not upper neck." Witness: maybe.

Next witness: no, Chauvin's knee is on the back of Floyd's neck.

*"Saying I can't breathe is a form if resistance." Witness: no.

"Well, Floyd said that while resisting arrest in the car." Witness: Floyd shouldn't have been in the car in such a manner in the first place. The officers escalated rather than de-escalate the situation.

Another witness: officers should have noticed that Floyd's health was already deteriorating.

*"Cameras don't have feelings or sensation so they can't convey the scene accurately because they only see what they see."

Plays an indiscernible clip:

"Floyd says he "ate too many drugs", right?" To which the witness says he can't hear Floyd say that. "Well, things can be missed in loud, chaotic situations."

Defense just now played a different audio to which witness says it does sound like Floyd said that.

Prosecution plays a different audio. Witness: It sounds like Floyd is saying "I ain't do no drugs."

*"Someone can feel tense but not look tense on camera." Witness: no.


I know the defense is trying to create doubt. But they are failing. They have to show photos/video clips to make their point, and the witnesses keep saying, "no, you're wrong".

[Maybenaut]

Is it just me, or is the defense making things worse for Chauvin?

(Almost all are not actual quotes.)

*"Chauvin's knee is on Floyd's lower neck, not upper neck." Witness: maybe.

Next witness: no, Chauvin's knee is on the back of Floyd's neck.

*"Saying I can't breathe is a form if resistance." Witness: no.

"Well, Floyd said that while resisting arrest in the car." Witness: Floyd shouldn't have been in the car in such a manner in the first place. The officers escalated rather than de-escalate the situation.

Another witness: officers should have noticed that Floyd's health was already deteriorating.

*"Cameras don't have feelings or sensation so they can't convey the scene accurately because they only see what they see."

Plays an indiscernible clip:

"Floyd says he "ate too many drugs", right?" To which the witness says he can't hear Floyd say that. "Well, things can be missed in loud, chaotic situations."

Defense just now played a different audio to which witness says it does sound like Floyd said that.

Prosecution plays a different audio. Witness: It sounds like Floyd is saying "I ain't do no drugs."

*"Someone can feel tense but not look tense on camera." Witness: no.


I know the defense is trying to create doubt. But they are failing. They have to show photos/video clips to make their point, and the witnesses keep saying, "no, you're wrong".

I haven’t seen or heard any of this testimony. I’m just going by what’s posted here. This witness lost some credibility with that statement, IMO. The jurors know that a person can, indeed, feel tense but not show any outward signs. I don’t think it’ll change the outcome any, but still.

[filly]

Nelson is making lots of points about the drugs. I didn't hear Floyd say he ate too many drugs on that clip, but if he did that seems to indicate Chauvin knew he was dealing with someone who needed some Narcan.

But Nelson is scoring some points today.

[sugar magnolia]

Is it just me, or is the defense making things worse for Chauvin?

(Almost all are not actual quotes.)

*"Chauvin's knee is on Floyd's lower neck, not upper neck." Witness: maybe.

Next witness: no, Chauvin's knee is on the back of Floyd's neck.

*"Saying I can't breathe is a form if resistance." Witness: no.

"Well, Floyd said that while resisting arrest in the car." Witness: Floyd shouldn't have been in the car in such a manner in the first place. The officers escalated rather than de-escalate the situation.

Another witness: officers should have noticed that Floyd's health was already deteriorating.

*"Cameras don't have feelings or sensation so they can't convey the scene accurately because they only see what they see."

Plays an indiscernible clip:

"Floyd says he "ate too many drugs", right?" To which the witness says he can't hear Floyd say that. "Well, things can be missed in loud, chaotic situations."

Defense just now played a different audio to which witness says it does sound like Floyd said that.

Prosecution plays a different audio. Witness: It sounds like Floyd is saying "I ain't do no drugs."

*"Someone can feel tense but not look tense on camera." Witness: no.


I know the defense is trying to create doubt. But they are failing. They have to show photos/video clips to make their point, and the witnesses keep saying, "no, you're wrong".

I haven’t seen or heard any of this testimony. I’m just going by what’s posted here. This witness lost some credibility with that statement, IMO. The jurors know that a person can, indeed, feel tense but not show any outward signs. I don’t think it’ll change the outcome any, but still.

If I'm remembering the context, it was specifically about physically tensed muscles, not "feeling" tense in an emotional sense. I believe the point was if he was physically tensing up his muscles in preparation for resisting or flight, and there was another graphic during that same line of questioning about escalation of force. If he was tensing up to resist in some way, that would probably be apparent on video. If the defense attorney was asking about state of mind, he did a pretty bad job of it because it was all related to physical actions and responses at that point in the testimony.

[RVInit]

Hopefully the prosecution will have a powerful closing argument. And will remind the jury - it doesn't matter what Floyd said or didn't say, whether he was pretending he couldn't breathe while he was in the car, etc. Why it doesn't matter is because the ex-officers all learned that if you have a person handcuffed behind their back you cannot leave them in a prone position without the risk of positional asphyxiation.

And this is why I think Chauvin is absolutely depraved and why I think this was actually first degree murder, although a jury won't buy it. He KNEW Floyd was complaining that "I can't breathe" while he was in the car. Then he KNEW that keeping him laying face down (and putting his full weight on Floyd's body so Floyd couldn't roll over onto his side) would put him at risk for asphyxiation. And he KNEW that he could rest easy knowing that cops normally get away with this shit, and hey, Floyd was complaining he couldn't breathe even before I put him into a position that I know for a fact has the possibility of causing asphyxiation, so I can double get away with it. The man is absolutely depraved, that is the only word for it.

[Patagoniagirl]

But Chauvin had to make a split-secind decision for over nine minutes.

[RVInit]

I just had another thought based on today's testimony, what part of it I heard. What I'm thinking is that the prosecutors must be rubbing their hands together more and more each day at the thought of cross examining Chauvin.

On the "I ate too many drugs thing". It seemed like the defense attorney did some good there. Until the prosecutor brought back one of the witnesses that the defense attorney had bamboozled into agreeing that this is what he heard Floyd say on that garbled tape. So, the prosecutor played the before and after. Chauvin asks him something about "what drugs have you done"? After Floyd's response Chauvin drops the subject completely and says nothing else and asks no more questions about drugs. So, is it really likely that Floyd really said "I ate too many drugs"? I think not. And I would ask Chauvin to explain why he asked Floyd that question. He asks about drugs and then the defense attorney wants us to believe that Chauvin heard Floyd admit to using "too many" drugs but then he completely drops the subject and never asks him what kind of drugs, etc? Hard to believe. And, when the witness was recalled to the stand and heard the before and after he said it sounded more like Floyd said "I ain't did no drugs". Which makes more sense given how the officers failed to respond in any way, shape, or manner that they would have responded had Floyd truly said "I ate too many drugs". I would love to hear the explanation of that.

Edit: Not only did Chauvin completely drop the subject of drugs after Floyd supposedly said "I ate too many drugs", but not one of the officers ever reported to the EMTs that Floyd had done any drugs or had admitted to drug use. I call BS on the "I ate too many drugs" as being what Floyd said. I think it far more likely that he denied the use of drugs, and the officers behavior and lack of any additional questioning about drugs makes me believe Chauvin knows damn well Floyd didn't say "I ate too many drugs".

Edit again. The experts on HLN are a little disappointing sometimes.

[Patagoniagirl]

If the defense is claiming Floyd said he ate too many drugs and the defense wants to infer drug overdose, how do they explain Narcan was not administered?

[RVInit]

If the defense is claiming Floyd said he ate too many drugs and the defense wants to infer drug overdose, how do they explain Narcan was not administered?

Yes, another good point. They didn't administer Narcan, they didn't tell EMTs that Floyd admitted to drug use, they didn't ask Floyd "what kind of drugs", "where did you get the drugs", etc. We are supposed to believe that Floyd uttered the words "I ate too many drugs" and the cops decided not to follow up on that in any way. That's why I don't believe those were the words Floyd said. And, I think the people who believe the defense attorney is making all these points are forgetting that if Chauvin testifies he's going to have to explain all these things. And there is going to be closing arguments and the prosecutors (I sure as hell hope) will bring all these things up. The lack of follow up questions, the failure to administer narcan, the failure to mention hey, the guy said he did too many drugs when EMT arrived and were trying to revive him. I don't think the defense is doing as well as some people seem to think they are doing.

Of course, you know what they say - half of the population is below average. I'm not going to get into semantics about that statement, but we all know what is meant by that. And the jury is made up of people from the general population. So, the defense doesn't have to necessarily do a great job. They just have to confuse one person with a bunch of BS. The prosecution has a much harder job.

[sugar magnolia]

Edit again. The experts on HLN are a little disappointing sometimes.

I flip back and forth between HLN and MSNBC.

[sad-cafe]

exactly

[RVInit]

Edit again. The experts on HLN are a little disappointing sometimes.

I flip back and forth between HLN and MSNBC.

thanks, I'll have to flip over the MSNBC and see about their commentary. I'm really more interested in the testimony but would be nice to hear better commentary. Some of the HLN experts are helpful, but others just get pulled down the rabbit hole too easily.

[RVInit]

Holy cow. If you have not been watching this trial, you need to watch today's testimony. I don't know how the defense gets around this testimony. This expert witness was by far the prosecution's knockout punch so far. I didn't catch his name and I had to miss some of what he said, but I heard enough of it to have thought there is no way to get around this. His direct examination is over, I guess it will be cross after lunch.

Edit - I am getting interrupted by work. LOL. This morning's expert was a pulmonologist. He gave the jury a compelling lesson in how the lungs operate and walked them through exactly what happened to George Floyd and how he was slowly asphyxiated and how every movement of his body showed exactly where he was in terms of how much oxygen was actually getting into the area of the lungs where it can do the body any good. And did a good job of explaining how and why the fentanyl, drugs, or heart condition could not have been the cause of his death. Powerful, powerful stuff. I was blown away.

[humblescribe]

Edit again. The experts on HLN are a little disappointing sometimes.

I flip back and forth between HLN and MSNBC.

thanks, I'll have to flip over the MSNBC and see about their commentary. I'm really more interested in the testimony but would be nice to hear better commentary. Some of the HLN experts are helpful, but others just get pulled down the rabbit hole too easily.

I've been following on CNN.

And Brooke Baldwin is leaving in a week or two.

[filly]

I only caught the tail end of Dr. Tobin's testimony and it was so hard to watch.

We'll see how he stands up to cross.