Derek Chauvin trial: The murder of George Floyd

[Flatpoint High]

I have learned way more than I knew. He was tortured by a guy who LOVED doing it


makes me f'n sick

There are few bad cops -- unfortunately, it is difficult to fire them because of the powerful unions. Even when their coworkers want them gone.

Don't call them "unions" because they aren't. It's not difficult to fire a bad cop, it's the PBA's that sue to get the bad cop his job back.

[Luke]

Thank you Sugar, you're awesome. Had a feeling Will Chamberlain was as wrong about this as he was on the election (he made the case that Mike Pence could decide which electoral votes should be counted).

And not only do you get a cup of Denny's Coffee...

DennyCoffee.jpg (92.77 KiB) Viewed 3772 times

But a full-on Denny's breakfast with the second cup! Anyone you'd like to INDICT? That's included

Dennys 2.jpg (11.47 KiB) Viewed 3774 times

[sugar magnolia]

Thank you Sugar, you're awesome. Had a feeling Will Chamberlain was as wrong about this as he was on the election (he made the case that Mike Pence could decide which electoral votes should be counted).

And not only do you get a cup of Denny's Coffee...


DennyCoffee.jpg



But a full-on Denny's breakfast with the second cup! Anyone you'd like to INDICT? That's included

The first cup is for listening to his stupid comments. The second cup is for having to listen to his irritating voice.
If his (and that other guy's website he referenced) analysis of the defense case is accurate, at least we know what to expect next week. I haven't heard but one name mentioned as a possible defense witness (David somebody, something medical) but it will be interesting to see who they come up with to refute the other expert witnesses and how they compare to each other.

[Maybenaut]

I haven't heard but one name mentioned as a possible defense witness (David somebody, something medical) but it will be interesting to see who they come up with to refute the other expert witnesses and how they compare to each other.

In my little corner of the criminal justice system, the identity of testifying* experts, plus whatever research they rely upon in forming their opinions, is known well in advance of trial. And they can be interviewed by the other side before testifying. I assume that’s true in MN.

* Experts who only assist in educating the parties but don’t testify have to be identified (to ensure both sides don’t hire the same guy), but their opinions are considered work product and can’t be interviewed by the other side. If the other side’s expert testified to something unexpected, the non-testifying expert can be called in rebuttal. In our system the judge will look at you squiggle-eyed for sand-bagging, but will allow it.

[sugar magnolia]

I haven't heard but one name mentioned as a possible defense witness (David somebody, something medical) but it will be interesting to see who they come up with to refute the other expert witnesses and how they compare to each other.

In my little corner of the criminal justice system, the identity of testifying* experts, plus whatever research they rely upon in forming their opinions, is known well in advance of trial. And they can be interviewed by the other side before testifying. I assume that’s true in MN.

* Experts who only assist in educating the parties but don’t testify have to be identified (to ensure both sides don’t hire the same guy), but their opinions are considered work product and can’t be interviewed by the other side. If the other side’s expert testified to something unexpected, the non-testifying expert can be called in rebuttal. In our system the judge will look at you squiggle-eyed for sand-bagging, but will allow it.

I'm sure there's a list of defense experts out there somewhere, I just haven't seen it. The only reason I know David whosit is because one of the talkers on tv said it the other day.

[W. Kevin Vicklund]

j. Defense Experts (contact information and C.V. previously disclosed)

i. David R. Fowler, MB, ChB. M.Med. Path.
ii. William R. Oliver, M.D., M.S., M.P.A
iii. Brian L. Peterson, M.D.
iv. Ljubisa Jovan Dragovic, M.D., F.C.A.P., F.A.A.F.S.
v. Kanthi DeAlwis, M.D.
vi. Kimberly Ann Collins, M.D.
vii. Gary W. Kunsman, PH.D., F-ABFT
viii. Aahraf Mozayani, PHARM.D., PH.D., F-ABFT
ix. Lionel Raymon, PHARM. D., PH.D.
x. Sara J. Schreiber, MS
xi. Dr. Michael Welner
xii. Dr. Kai Sturmann
xiii. Dr. Ronald Goldenberg
xiv. Dr. Mary Sheppard
xv. Dr. William Anderson
xvi. Barry Brodd

From https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/ ... 082021.pdf

[Lani]

You can buy your experts. I know. I was a litigator. I hope the defense fails, but I have my doubts.

[fierceredpanda]

Okay, who the fuck is paying for Chauvin's defense? Because that's at least a couple hundred grand worth of experts right there.

[Lani]

Yes it is. I suspect that that the prosecutors are going to be hit hard.

[pipistrelle]

At least two with drug expertise. I think we can see where the defense is going.

[pipistrelle]

Okay, who the fuck is paying for Chauvin's defense? Because that's at least a couple hundred grand worth of experts right there.

Same ones who contribute to the Kenosha killer.

Why do Americans hate their own country?

If I were a juror, frankly, I’d smell desperation. That’s why I never get picked as a juror. My disqualifying questions have been, “ What college did you go to?” and “Do you read?”

[pipistrelle]

Yes it is. I suspect that that the prosecutors are going to be hit hard.

But they’ve known about them, right? I suspect they’ve sharpened their claws.

[sterngard friegen]

I think there's a good chance the jury will be hung, but I don't think this jury will acquit.

When I try a case to a jury while I like to see (and hear reports) about how the jury is reacting, I generally determine "how the trial is going" by how well my witnesses perform and whether I can get in all the evidence I have planned for. That's when I'm on my part of the case. When I'm dealing with the opponent's presentation "how well the case is going" depends on how well I can damage the opponent's witnesses on cross and how much evidence I can keep out. By that measure, so far the case is going well for the prosecution.

Most jury trials are crap shoots, especially in these polarized times, but there are some cases you have to try and this is one of them.

[Lani]

Yes it is. I suspect that that the prosecutors are going to be hit hard.

But they’ve known about them, right? I suspect they’ve sharpened their claws.

It's going to get ugly.

[Maybenaut]

Okay, who the fuck is paying for Chauvin's defense? Because that's at least a couple hundred grand worth of experts right there.

Who pays in your system? In the military the government pays, and they’re required to provide the defense with experts as qualified as the government uses. Procedurally, the defense IDs the experts it wants, the government either agrees or denies, and if it denies, the military judge decides. It’s unusual for the defense to lose these motions, and if they do, they’re usually successful in appeal, particularly where the government had an expert and the defense didn’t.

But the government wouldn’t be required to fund a parade, usually just one. But if the govt gets 2, so does the defense.

[fierceredpanda]

Okay, who the fuck is paying for Chauvin's defense? Because that's at least a couple hundred grand worth of experts right there.

Who pays in your system? In the military the government pays, and they’re required to provide the defense with experts as qualified as the government uses. Procedurally, the defense IDs the experts it wants, the government either agrees or denies, and if it denies, the military judge decides. It’s unusual for the defense to lose these motions, and if they do, they’re usually successful in appeal, particularly where the government had an expert and the defense didn’t.

But the government wouldn’t be required to fund a parade, usually just one. But if the govt gets 2, so does the defense.

In my cases where I'm appointed by the court or by the Wisconsin State Public Defender, I can get funding for a limited number of experts. In cases where the defendant has privately retained counsel, the government isn't paying for shit and the defendant has to pony up. I won't lie: It's been a deciding factor in a couple cases of mine where a trial would boil down to a battle of experts. When the prosecutor makes a reasonable offer and a trial is going to be a roll of the dice over which side's expert the jury believes, a lot of defendants decide they'd rather take the deal than beg, borrow, or steal the extra cash to pay an expert.

There's no way in hell politicians in our state would approve funding expert defense for criminal defendants who are not indigent. We can't even get the state legislature to agree to pay public defenders the same as prosecutors here. I suspect Minnesota is much the same.

[Lani]

Yeah. I walked away from litigation and became working with mediation.

If you don't have the money, you will lose in court. Thar's the reality.

[filly]

It will be interesting to see how many of these defense experts are actually paid experts. The State's best expert, Dr. Tobin, volunteered.

[sugar magnolia]

Okay, who the fuck is paying for Chauvin's defense? Because that's at least a couple hundred grand worth of experts right there.

The Minn Police Assn apparently. Not his union.
https://www.distractify.com/p/who-is-pa ... in-defense

[sugar magnolia]

It will be interesting to see how many of these defense experts are actually paid experts. The State's best expert, Dr. Tobin, volunteered.

As did Dr. Lindsey Thomas, the doctor that the ME in the case trained under.

[Maybenaut]

In my cases where I'm appointed by the court or by the Wisconsin State Public Defender, I can get funding for a limited number of experts. In cases where the defendant has privately retained counsel, the government isn't paying for shit and the defendant has to pony up. I won't lie: It's been a deciding factor in a couple cases of mine where a trial would boil down to a battle of experts. When the prosecutor makes a reasonable offer and a trial is going to be a roll of the dice over which side's expert the jury believes, a lot of defendants decide they'd rather take the deal than beg, borrow, or steal the extra cash to pay an expert.

There's no way in hell politicians in our state would approve funding expert defense for criminal defendants who are not indigent. We can't even get the state legislature to agree to pay public defenders the same as prosecutors here. I suspect Minnesota is much the same.

We don’t have an indigency requirement in the military. Dude could be independently wealthy, and he still going to get a free military attorney, and he still going to get experts paid for by the government, even if he goes out and hires his own civilian counsel. As much of a bad rap is military justice gets, I’d rather be tried in the military system. It is very, very defense-friendly.

What often happens is the judge will approve one expert, and the defense might go out and hire additional experts on their own dime.

[Lani]

BROOKLYN CENTER, Minn. — A 20-year-old Black man died after a police officer shot him during a traffic stop in a Minneapolis suburb on Sunday, sending hundreds of people into the streets where they clashed with police officers into Monday morning.

The protests in Brooklyn Center came hours before the 11th day of the trial of Derek Chauvin, the former Minneapolis police officer who has been charged with murdering George Floyd, was set to begin in a courtroom less than 10 miles away.

Chief Tim Gannon of the Brooklyn Center Police Department said an officer had shot the man on Sunday afternoon after pulling his car over for a traffic violation and discovering that the driver had a warrant out for his arrest. As the police tried to detain the man, he stepped back into his car, at which point an officer shot him, Chief Gannon said.

Mr. Wright’s mother, Katie Wright, told reporters that her son had been driving a car that his family had just given him two weeks ago and that he had called her as he was being pulled over.

“He said they pulled him over because he had air fresheners hanging from his rear view mirror,” she said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/11/us/b ... d=tw-share

He was on the phone with his mom and heard him be ordered to leave the car , some “scuffling” and an officer telling him not to run. Then the phone call was cut off. She called back and her son's girlfriend told her that the cops shot him.

People gathered to protest. Police & National Guard are involved.

[filly]

There was also looting at a nearby mall. That always hurts the cause.

Nelson made a motion to have to jury sequestered as a result of yesterday's incident, which Judge Cahill denied.

[RVInit]

It took four freaking years to arrest Cliven Bundt, a man who convinced a horde of people to point guns at law enforcement. I don’t understand why they have to shoot “runners”. Why not just get them later when it’s more safe

[neeneko]

It took four freaking years to arrest Cliven Bundt, a man who convinced a horde of people to point guns at law enforcement. I don’t understand why they have to shoot “runners”. Why not just get them later when it’s more safe

The law enforcement community seem to see the BLM as 'not one of them', so disrespect against them is not a high priority. Meanwhile disrespecting a county/state officer is OMG THE SKY IS FALLING and has to be met with lethal force otherwise others might disrespect them too.