Military to guard Mexico border?

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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#76

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:24 pm



NBC News

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Homeland Security Secretary Kristjen Nielsen announces Trump will sign an executive order to deploy the National Guard to "assist the border patrol."
2:22 PM - Apr 4, 2018
Who will pay for this? :think:


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neeneko
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#77

Post by neeneko » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:27 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:46 pm
Depends - a lot - on exactly what Trump wants the military to do. Which is unclear.
I doubt he has much of a plan or intent, he just wants the perception that he is 'doing something tough' that he can talk about later.



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#78

Post by Estiveo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:31 pm

Martial law in California within 6 months.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#79

Post by much ado » Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:39 pm

If you want an example of how this could go wrong, just look at the actions of the Ohio National Guard at Kent State in 1970. I was a student at Ohio State at the time.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#80

Post by DrIrvingFinegarten » Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:45 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:55 pm
And where exactly will these federal troops be housed? Is Sheriff Joe gonna run a tent city for our troops in the Arizona and Texas summers? What about all of the private landowners who will have federal troops occupying their properties? Any legal problems with that?

An actual Third Amendment issue?



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#81

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:13 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:19 pm
:snippity:

I fear that Trump envisions a line of dug-in troops with machine guns running from San Diego to Brownsville.
I doubt it. They'll probably do what they did before - logistics, aviation, communications, transport, etc..



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#82

Post by Chilidog » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:37 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:13 pm
Volkonski wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:19 pm
:snippity:

I fear that Trump envisions a line of dug-in troops with machine guns running from San Diego to Brownsville.
I doubt it. They'll probably do what they did before - logistics, aviation, communications, transport, etc..
All of which can be done a heck of a lot cheaper through civilian contracts.



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#83

Post by Dolly » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:40 pm

Sessions credits Trump with stopping migrant caravan
Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Wednesday credited President Trump with halting a "caravan" of migrants the president had warned were headed toward the U.S. border through Mexico.
..................
Pueblo Sin Fronteras, a migrants rights group that organized the journey, said the caravan's destination was not the U.S. border.

“Our job with the caravan ends in Mexico City,” the organization's director Irineo Mujica told The Washington Post. The caravan, organized to protect individual migrants from travel dangers, has largely disbanded in central Mexico.

Mexican officials have handed out temporary permits for the migrants, most of whom fled Honduras, allowing them time to return home or apply for asylum in Mexico, according to the report.
.....
Sessions, in the statement, said the caravan was only one form of "lawlessness" at the southern border that the U.S. is cracking down on.

"But let me be clear as well: we will not accept the lawlessness of these types of efforts and those who choose to violate our laws, and those who conspire to assist others to violate our laws, will face criminal prosecution," Sessions said.
...........
"I will soon be announcing additional Department of Justice initiatives to restore legality to the southern border," Sessions said.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... nt-caravan

:confused:


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#84

Post by Addie » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:45 pm

Military Times
New details on Trump’s troop deployments to the Mexican border

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump is ordering U.S. troops to the southern U.S. border, but the move does not appear to be as unusual as the White House first billed it this week.

The Pentagon and White House on Wednesday walked back President Donald Trump promise to handle border security “militarily,” saying the proposed moves will restricted to National Guard personnel and be similar to past operations in southern states.

Department of Homeland Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said Wednesday at a White House press conference that her agency and the Pentagon are coordinating with governors on the specifics of the deployments, with exact numbers and missions to be announced later. Guardsmen will serve in support roles, and not actual law enforcement activities.

The announcement came roughly 24 hours after Trump announced at a similar event that “we’re going to be guarding our border with the military,” adding “we really haven’t done that before.”
Adding:
Vox: Trump is mobilizing the National Guard to the US-Mexico border for literally no good reason

The Trump administration says “the threat is real.” But border crossings are at historic lows.
WaPo: Trump claimed his plan to put troops on the border is extraordinary. It was routine for Obama.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#85

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:17 pm

Isn’t this prohibited by Posse Comitatus?


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bob
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#86

Post by bob » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:24 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:17 pm
Isn’t this prohibited by Posse Comitatus?
If the president's efforts are limited to that of his predecessors, the soldiers' involvement will be limited to providing support services. They will not engage in law enforcement actions, so no Posse Comitatus Act violation.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#87

Post by Addie » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:44 pm

Just Security: The Military, the Mexican Border and Posse Comitatus: Four Key Takeaways


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#88

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:47 pm

:like:


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#89

Post by Addie » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:24 pm

New York Times Editorial
Trump’s Irrational Border Plan ...

It is a president’s duty to defend the country, and putting troops on the border is not unprecedented. Yet Mr. Trump’s move is not rooted in the reality of immigration in recent years. The number of people apprehended at the border plummeted from more than 1.6 million in 2000 to 310,000 last year, the lowest level since 1971. The main causes are slowed population growth, improved economic opportunities in Mexico and stronger American border security, the result of investment in thousands of guards, physical barriers and technology.

Like so many of the president’s decisions, the one to put troops on the border seems impulsive, spiteful and politically motivated. Kirstjen Nielsen, the homeland security chief, and other aides reportedly briefed Mr. Trump on the idea last week. Even so, after his unexpected announcement on Tuesday, the White House struggled to explain his intentions, including how many and which troops would be deployed. Officials have since said that he was referring to National Guard troops, not active-duty troops. There was no consultation with the Mexican president, whose ambassador to the United States called the decision unwelcome.

Mr. Trump is feeling heat from supporters who believed his pledge to build a wall paid for by Mexico. Not only has Mexico refused to fund this folly, Congress also thwarted him by approving only $1.6 billion for the project in a recent omnibus spending bill, rather than the $25 billion Mr. Trump sought. Despite opposing the wall, Democratic leaders offered to fund it if Mr. Trump backed a path to citizenship for 1.8 million DACA-eligible immigrants. He refused.

One impediment to using troops on the border could be American law. The 1878 Posse Comitatus Act bars the use of the armed forces for civilian law enforcement tasks unless authorized by the Constitution or Congress. Since the 1980s, however, the Defense Department, including the National Guard, has provided indirect support to border-related anti-drug and counterterrorism efforts.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#90

Post by AndyinPA » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:29 pm

This whole military-on-the-border thingie is only playing to his base. They have to be fed regularly.



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#91

Post by Dolly » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:00 pm

Trump signs off on memo to send National Guard to southern border

President Trump signed a proclamation late Wednesday ordering National Guard troops be sent to the U.S.-Mexico border to address a “surge of illegal activity.”

In a memo to Defense Secretary James Mattis and Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen, Trump ordered the National Guard be used to secure the border “to stop the flow of deadly drugs and other contraband, gang members and other criminals, and illegal aliens into this country.”

Trump also asked Mattis and Nielsen to submit reports within 30 days detailing what other resources are needed at the border.

Trump first suggested on Tuesday that he'd like to deploy troops to the southern border to secure the area until his proposed wall can be built.

On Wednesday, he followed through on that idea. Nielsen spoke at the White House press briefing to explain the deployment of troops.

“It’s time to act,” Nielsen told reporters, adding that the deployments could begin “immediately.”

She did not share how many troops will be sent to the border, the length of the deployment or its cost.

Trump has spent recent days tweeting his frustrations about current immigration laws, warning of approaching "caravans" of migrants approaching the border and calling on Congress to enact tougher regulations.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... ern-border

No official, historical photo of the signing at the link. :twisted:


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#92

Post by Dolly » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:04 pm

Off Topic
Mexican senators call on Pena Nieto to halt cooperation with US after Trump attacks

Mexican senators are calling on Mexican President Enrique Pena Nieto to halt its cooperation with the U.S. on various issues after President Trump went on the attack against the country.

Mexico senators unanimously approved a non-binding statement Wednesday that says the government should suspend joint efforts "in the fight against transnational organized crime" until Trump exhibits "civility and respect that the people of Mexico deserve," the Associated Press reported.

The statement from the Mexican senators also rails against Trump for his "baseless and offensive comments about Mexico and Mexicans."

It calls for the U.S. Congress to demand that Trump treat Mexico with "respect" and opposes the move by Trump to deploy the National Guard to the country's souther border.

Trump signed an order Wednesday to deploy National Guard troops to the U.S. southern border. <snip>
http://thehill.com/policy/international ... h-us-after


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#93

Post by Lani » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:15 am

One year ago....

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
General Kelly is doing a great job at the border. Numbers are way down. Many are not even trying to come in anymore.

3:04 PM - Mar 26, 2017


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#94

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:37 am

Dolly wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:40 pm
Sessions credits Trump with stopping migrant caravan
Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Wednesday credited President Trump with halting a "caravan" of migrants the president had warned were headed toward the U.S. border through Mexico.
:snippity:
"But let me be clear as well: we will not accept the lawlessness of these types of efforts and those who choose to violate our laws, and those who conspire to assist others to violate our laws, will face criminal prosecution," Sessions said.
...........
"I will soon be announcing additional Department of Justice initiatives to restore legality to the southern border," Sessions said.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... nt-caravan

:confused:
Who said that a march thru Mexico was a violation of US laws? Who said that those migrants might not ask properly for asylum at the border as the law prescribes? :think: :confused:



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#95

Post by Notorial Dissent » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:49 am

What I'd like to know is who and how they are going to pay for this little exercise. I can't see the states "willingly" footing the bill.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#96

Post by Xtreme1 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:24 am

Many presidents have done this, including Obama. It’s actually quite common. So much so that there is a highly detailed architecture in place setting forth the standards that need to be met.
There was a fair amount of this being done while Obama was in office.
The name of the military unit that oversees this is called JTF-N, Joint Task Force North. (JTF-N), is responsible for reviewing and managing requests for military support on American soil from law enforcement agencies at the federal, state, and local levels and in coordination with tribal authorities on Native American reservations. Military units, or private companies under contract to military commands, can provide actual military support, as well. Predominantly these missions take the form of providing intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance assets on the ground, at sea, or in the air – including unmanned aircraft and remotely operated sensors – moving personnel and materiel rapidly across long distances or to remote locations, and engineering services, such as building roads, bridges, barriers, and outposts.
Here is a brief synopsis of one such usage of the military. One needs to know that civilian contractors are commonly used. Note the dates of this particular activity. I highly doubt that Trump was involved.
https://www.army.mil/article/72606/nort ... st_mission

Some further information;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/284


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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#97

Post by Notorial Dissent » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 am

Somehow, I don't think that is what he has in mind.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#98

Post by neeneko » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:35 am

Xtreme1 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:24 am
Many presidents have done this, including Obama. It’s actually quite common. So much so that there is a highly detailed architecture in place setting forth the standards that need to be met.
This highlights the problem with having such an unpredictable president with such poor knowledge of how such things work. No one knows what Trump is actually picturing or planning. The existing system is likely what he will get, but much of the reaction is based on the symbolic nature of the action.

He is trying to look tough to his base, and is selling the idea as if he was deploying the army or something. Now he has given the relevant departments 30 days to write up a plan based off his spur of the moment idea, and their recommendations will probably be the mundane usage we have seen in the past. But given that the whole thing is a response to imaginary problems and anxiety from his base as opposed to concrete issues that resources can address, it is hard to picture what either the imagined or actual action will be.



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#99

Post by RVInit » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:57 am

neeneko wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:35 am
Xtreme1 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:24 am
Many presidents have done this, including Obama. It’s actually quite common. So much so that there is a highly detailed architecture in place setting forth the standards that need to be met.
This highlights the problem with having such an unpredictable president with such poor knowledge of how such things work. No one knows what Trump is actually picturing or planning. The existing system is likely what he will get, but much of the reaction is based on the symbolic nature of the action.

He is trying to look tough to his base, and is selling the idea as if he was deploying the army or something. Now he has given the relevant departments 30 days to write up a plan based off his spur of the moment idea, and their recommendations will probably be the mundane usage we have seen in the past. But given that the whole thing is a response to imaginary problems and anxiety from his base as opposed to concrete issues that resources can address, it is hard to picture what either the imagined or actual action will be.
:yeah:


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#100

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:08 am

Xtreme1 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:24 am
Many presidents have done this, including Obama. It’s actually quite common. So much so that there is a highly detailed architecture in place setting forth the standards that need to be met.
:snippity:
https://www.army.mil/article/72606/nort ... st_mission

Some further information;

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/284
From this description I would pick (but then I am not in the position of this dotus) extra drone coverage by the military. I don't know what Border Partrol is using themselves, I guess smaller stuff, but the military could provide for quality 24/7 coverage at critical times. At the altitude the military drones operate they can cover quite a bit of ground until they observe suspicious activity, then they can direct Border Patrol agents to the hotspot.



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