Military Guarding Mexico border

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pipistrelle
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#101

Post by pipistrelle » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:18 am

AndyinPA wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:29 pm
This whole military-on-the-border thingie is only playing to his base. They have to be fed regularly.
:winner:



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voxpopuluxe
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#102

Post by voxpopuluxe » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:05 am

neeneko wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:35 am
Xtreme1 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:24 am
Many presidents have done this, including Obama. It’s actually quite common. So much so that there is a highly detailed architecture in place setting forth the standards that need to be met.
This highlights the problem with having such an unpredictable president with such poor knowledge of how such things work. No one knows what Trump is actually picturing or planning. The existing system is likely what he will get, but much of the reaction is based on the symbolic nature of the action.

:snippity:
Yeah, the big problem here isn't that in a best-case scenario, the agencies and Governors can and will route around the President's demands; the big problem is that the President is a :cussing: imbecile who changes his :cussing: mind from one moment to the next and who thinks the government is his :cussing: toy.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#103

Post by Northland10 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:05 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:18 am
AndyinPA wrote:
Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:29 pm
This whole military-on-the-border thingie is only playing to his base. They have to be fed regularly.
:winner:
Especially with the omnibus bill and stuff from the DOJ/Mueller.


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AndyinPA
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#104

Post by AndyinPA » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:56 am

Governor Brown isn't onboard with this.

http://www.newsweek.com/mexico-border-w ... ard-872783
"If @realDonaldTrump asks me to deploy Oregon Guard troops to the Mexico border, I’ll say no," tweeted Democratic Gov Brown. "As Commander of Oregon’s Guard, I’m deeply troubled by Trump’s plan to militarize our border."

She added: "There’s been no outreach by the President or federal officials, and I have no intention of allowing Oregon’s guard troops to be used to distract from his troubles in Washington."
:boxing:



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RTH10260
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#105

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:34 am

AndyinPA wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:56 am
Governor Brown isn't onboard with this.

http://www.newsweek.com/mexico-border-w ... ard-872783
"If @realDonaldTrump asks me to deploy Oregon Guard troops to the Mexico border, I’ll say no," tweeted Democratic Gov Brown. "As Commander of Oregon’s Guard, I’m deeply troubled by Trump’s plan to militarize our border."

She added: "There’s been no outreach by the President or federal officials, and I have no intention of allowing Oregon’s guard troops to be used to distract from his troubles in Washington."
:boxing:
Of course not by dotus cause it was a sudden whim crossed his aging mind. And federal offices had never heard of his intent before... :brickwallsmall:

Greatest Deal Maker Of All Times. signed dotus



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#106

Post by Addie » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:14 am

:lol:
Politico: Arizona lawmaker: I'll 'gladly' work with Trump on immigration 'when his ideas aren’t stupid'
Politico: Trump credits Mexico for reportedly breaking up migrant caravan


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Dolly
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#107

Post by Dolly » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:45 am

Mexico: Nielsen promised limited role for National Guard at border

Mexico's top diplomat said Wednesday he received assurances from Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen that National Guard troops deployed to the border will only act in a supporting role.

Foreign Relations Secretary Luis Videgaray Caso said on Twitter that Nielsen "clarified some aspects of the deployment" over the phone.

According to a Foreign Relations Secretariat press release, Nielsen said the troops will be unarmed and not directly engage in immigration or customs controls.
......................
The National Guard is restricted by law from performing tasks attributed to Customs and Border Protection and Border Patrol officers.
...........................
But asked about legal limitations that prevent National Guard troops from conducting arrests, seizures and interdictions, Nielsen indicated she'd look to Congress to change those laws.

"We are looking in every way we can act within the executive branch but I really will continue to ask Congress to please work with me in the next couple months to pass legislation. Some of the [limitations] are absolutely the result of loopholes in our system. They were probably never meant to be there," she said.
http://thehill.com/latino/381780-mexico ... -at-border


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Kendra
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#108

Post by Kendra » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:08 pm

:confused: :confused:

I still don't quite get what it is the NG is going to do. Let alone where they'll be housed and fed and all.



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Dolly
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#109

Post by Dolly » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:19 pm

Kendra wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:08 pm
:confused: :confused:

I still don't quite get what it is the NG is going to do. Let alone where they'll be housed and fed and all.
I was thinking about this last night. I have been in Arizona and portions of Southern California during the summer when the temperature is 120 - 122 degrees. Very uncomfortable.

From my link above:
"Operation Phalanx, as you know, was a way the National Guard could provide air support. We would look for them to do that. They provide medical care for those we interdict. They help us do fleet maintenance; we need a lot of mechanics in that terrain," she said.

"It's a lot of support functions that will free up the border patrol to do what they do best," added Nielsen.
http://thehill.com/latino/381780-mexico ... -at-border

<< grrr my comments post while I am copy/pasting between tabs - without hitting the SUBMIT button>
Does Trump have the power to send National Guard troops to the border?
Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush asked states to send National Guard forces to the border. Then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger told Bush no thanks.
................

HOW CAN A PRESIDENT GET TROOPS TO THE BORDER?
The military has no legal mandate to deal with immigration issues, but there are two ways for the federal government to use the National Guard to enhance the country's border efforts.

Under the provisions of U.S. Code Title 10, the one Lieu cited in his tweet, the movement of federally funded National Guard troops is controlled by the secretary of defense. This is in effect the "federalization" of the Guard.

However, under U.S. Code Title 32, which Trump used as the basis for his proclamation, the federally funded troops remain under state control, sent only at the determination of a participating state's governor.

Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush both used Title 32 to direct National Guard forces to the southern border. In addition, the authority of Title 10 has for decades been used to federally fund military groups fighting transnational gangs that attempt to cross U.S. borders, according to a 2012 Government Accountability Office report.

WHY USE TITLE 32, NOT TITLE 10?
Title 32 broadens the scope of what National Guard personnel can do at the border.

National Guard troops under control of the federal government, as they would be under Title 10, are prohibited by the Posse Comitatus Act (PCA) from enforcing domestic laws. The PCA bars military forces from getting involved with domestic issues like immigration. The troops can only take a support role, such as training or loaning and operating equipment, as well as being involved in certain counterdrug and counterterrorism efforts.

State National Guard personnel are not subject to the PCA. In 2004, Congress passed a law that previous administrations have used to allow the federal government to fund National Guard troops participating in border security operations triggered by "homeland defense activity" under Title 32, according to a 2013 Congressional Research Report. <SNIP>

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... er-n862891


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bob
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#110

Post by bob » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:21 pm

Kendra wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:08 pm
I still don't quite get what it is the NG is going to do.
Under previous initiatives, the guard surveiled the border, and reported their findings to the border patrol. They also repaired fences, built roads, etc. And provided support services (i.e., clerical and administrative work).
Let alone where they'll be housed and fed and all.
I assume they'll be given per diems, and will rent rooms, etc. (Or otherwise be spread around already existing bases.)


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#111

Post by kate520 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:27 pm

isnt this asking our NG to begin to regard our closest neighbor as the enemy? Will this feeling transfer to the military? I really really really really really don’t like this. Don’t care that others have done it, they didn’t spray the hateful rhetoric, which isn’t over yet, first.

This incredibly immoral, ugly man has proven his mal-intent at every turn. He doesn’t have the strength of will to sign a bill and stick to it. He listens to the ones who tell him he can do this other thing instead, won’t that make the liberals mad. So he has to personally fuck with some group or another or he can’t sleep.


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Kendra
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#112

Post by Kendra » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:30 pm

Thanks Dolly and Bob. :bighug:
However, under U.S. Code Title 32, which Trump used as the basis for his proclamation, the federally funded troops remain under state control, sent only at the determination of a participating state's governor.
If I see it again, I'll post the link here, but I read somewhere this morning that Oregon's governor plans to decline.



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Dolly
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#113

Post by Dolly » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:51 pm

Kendra wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:30 pm
Thanks Dolly and Bob. :bighug:
However, under U.S. Code Title 32, which Trump used as the basis for his proclamation, the federally funded troops remain under state control, sent only at the determination of a participating state's governor.
If I see it again, I'll post the link here, but I read somewhere this morning that Oregon's governor plans to decline.
Oregon governor: I'll say no if Trump asks me to deploy National Guard troops to Mexico border

Oregon Gov. Kate Brown (D) said she would reject a request from President Trump to dispatch National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexico border.

"If @realDonaldTrump asks me to deploy Oregon Guard troops to the Mexico border, I’ll say no," Brown tweeted.

"As Commander of Oregon’s Guard, I’m deeply troubled by Trump’s plan to militarize our border."

She added: "There’s been no outreach by the President or federal officials, and I have no intention of allowing Oregon’s guard troops to be used to distract from his troubles in Washington." <SNIP>
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch ... egon-guard


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#114

Post by Kendra » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Thanks Dolly :thumbs:



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#115

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:47 pm

Looks like political posturing on the part of Oregon's governor to me. It would make no logistical sense to deploy units from as far away as Oregon.

Fortunately, this isn't something they've never done before.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#116

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:50 pm

The Arkansas Republican governor agreed to help in this "mission". Waste of money.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#117

Post by Jim » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:57 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:50 pm
The Arkansas Republican governor agreed to help in this "mission". Waste of money.
I believe Bush 42 and Obama found out the same thing when they sent the National Guard to the border...it was too expensive for too little return.



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#118

Post by neeneko » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:08 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:47 pm
Looks like political posturing on the part of Oregon's governor to me. It would make no logistical sense to deploy units from as far away as Oregon.

Fortunately, this isn't something they've never done before.
This whole thing is political posturing that makes no logical sense.



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Kendra
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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#119

Post by Kendra » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:57 pm

neeneko wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:08 pm
Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:47 pm
Looks like political posturing on the part of Oregon's governor to me. It would make no logistical sense to deploy units from as far away as Oregon.

Fortunately, this isn't something they've never done before.
This whole thing is political posturing that makes no logical sense.
:yeah:



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#120

Post by HilltownGrrl » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:45 pm

Jim wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:57 pm
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:50 pm
The Arkansas Republican governor agreed to help in this "mission". Waste of money.
I believe Bush 42 and Obama found out the same thing when they sent the National Guard to the border...it was too expensive for too little return.
This may have been true for Bush & Obama but it isn't true for Trump. It isn't his money so he doesn't care how much it costs & he's doing it to look strong & to cater to his base so there's lots of return (for him) right there.

ETA And I loathe how cynical I've gotten & how I have to think in Trump terms now rather than usual GOP/Dem administration terms.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#121

Post by Dan1100 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 pm

So, we are going to put National Guard guys up in hotels, feed them 3 times a day, and during the day they are going to drive around in their trucks and maybe do some light construction or clerical work that temps/illegal day laborers could do faster, better, and cheaper.

Then, on their time off, they are going to get bored, go to bars, get drunk and hit on local women. Some of them are going to go across the border to the zona rosa, get drunk, end up with hookers, and some might get arrested and a few might even get themselves killed.

Am I missing anything?


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#122

Post by bob » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:50 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 pm
Am I missing anything?
That the border patrol's increased effectiveness will be nominal.

And that the president repeatedly will declare unprecedented victory.


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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#123

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:51 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 pm
So, we are going to put National Guard guys up in hotels, feed them 3 times a day, and during the day they are going to drive around in their trucks and maybe do some light construction or clerical work that temps/illegal day laborers could do faster, better, and cheaper.

Then, on their time off, they are going to get bored, go to bars, get drunk and hit on local women. Some of them are going to go across the border to the zona rosa, get drunk, end up with hookers, and some might get arrested and a few might even get themselves killed.

Am I missing anything?
This: a good soldier never puts his gun down, even when he crosses the border ;)



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#124

Post by vic » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:52 pm

bob wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:50 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 pm
Am I missing anything?
That the border patrol's increased effectiveness will be nominal.

And that the president repeatedly will declare unprecedented victory.
And too also, probably most of those National Guard members have real jobs which they'll be called away from, and their employers will find it difficult to fill those positions (unknown duration, USERRA requirements to reemploy at end of deployment). This will have the greatest affect on those small businesses that the current resident of the White House said he said he would protect.



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Re: Military to guard Mexico border?

#125

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:43 am

vic wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:52 pm
bob wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:50 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 pm
Am I missing anything?
That the border patrol's increased effectiveness will be nominal.

And that the president repeatedly will declare unprecedented victory.
And too also, probably most of those National Guard members have real jobs which they'll be called away from, and their employers will find it difficult to fill those positions (unknown duration, USERRA requirements to reemploy at end of deployment). This will have the greatest affect on those small businesses that the current resident of the White House said he said he would protect.
Scene: a repair shop in the small town of Ironyville, the shop owner speaks:
"Hi Joe, did you enjoy your time guarding the border? We employed a couple Mexicans to do your job while you were away."



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