Military Mischief

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RTH10260
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Re: Military Mischief

#401

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:37 am

Maybenaut wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:28 am
Whatever4 wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:10 am
Maybenaut wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:56 am

:snippity:
But this kind of shocked me:
:snippity:
Elaborate please? :think:
He’s been recalled to active duty. The military judge didn’t say who had made the determination, but I’m pretty sure the Army didn’t order him not to wear his uniform. What shocked me is that the Army is apparently allowing him to show up in civilian clothes. The article doesn’t explain why that is happening, but I find it really odd that the Army would agree that there is some problem with a soldier being required to wear the uniform.
:snippity:
Would the Army need to provide him with a fresh uniform, newly tailored for a trial?



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RVInit
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Re: Military Mischief

#402

Post by RVInit » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:41 am

Is it unusual for him not to have entered a plea yet, or is that normal at this stage?


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Re: Military Mischief

#403

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:48 am

There may be a very simple explanation, he no longer fits his dress uniform.



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Re: Military Mischief

#404

Post by ZekeB » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:52 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:37 am
Would the Army need to provide him with a fresh uniform, newly tailored for a trial?
Doubtful, since officers are usually required to purchase their own uniforms anyway.


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Re: Military Mischief

#405

Post by Maybenaut » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:02 am

When they recall a person to active duty they put him back into pay status, and he would be responsible for purchasing his own new uniform if for some reason his old uniform did not fit. Active-duty soldiers wear uniforms.

There’s a place in the trial script where the military judge asks the defense counsel if the accused is wearing the uniform, and all the awards and decorations to which he is entitled. The reason that that is in the script is because of a concern that the military might try to make the guy look bad by preventing him from wearing all of his decorations.

I don’t know what the explanation is, but it’s not going to be “his uniform doesn’t fit him anymore.” That might’ve been OK for the initial appearance after he was recalled to active duty, but not for the entirety of the trial. There is simply no reason that I am aware of that this guy wouldn’t have a uniform that fits him. So whatever is going on, it’s got to be something else.

It is not unusual that he hasn’t entered a plea yet. Under our rules, certain motions have to be made prior to the entry of pleas. So they’re still in that motions stage. After those emotions have been made, then he’ll honorably.



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Re: Military Mischief

#406

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:09 am

Don't know how realistic a guess this is, but...

Could defense counsel want to have the guy in civies for the trial to emphasize to the panel of very busy 2- and 3-stars that they're losing valuable work and sleep time because the military has seen fit to recall the guy instead of having the matter handled in the civilian courts?


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Re: Military Mischief

#407

Post by Maybenaut » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:27 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:09 am
Don't know how realistic a guess this is, but...

Could defense counsel want to have the guy in civies for the trial to emphasize to the panel of very busy 2- and 3-stars that they're losing valuable work and sleep time because the military has seen fit to recall the guy instead of having the matter handled in the civilian courts?
Possibly. I’m just shocked that the government agreed to it. Again, I’m going on the assumption that this is something that the defense wanted.



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Re: Military Mischief

#408

Post by Maybenaut » Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:23 am

I have an answer to the uniform question. They didn’t actually recall him to active duty; he’s being tried in his retired status. I didn’t know they could do that, but apparently they can.



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Re: Military Mischief

#409

Post by Maybenaut » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:52 am

Disgustiong.
An Air Force sergeant recorded herself ranting about her black subordinates. Now she’s suspended.

An Air Force technical sergeant who posted a video of her racist ranting on social media on Sunday has been suspended from her leadership role, officials said.

Tech. Sgt. Geraldine Lovely uploaded an expletive-laden video to Facebook of herself in uniform spouting off about her black female subordinates, who she said regularly give her “attitude” and have no “respect whatsoever.” Her offensive language drew reactions both at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada and across the country as the video went viral.

“I am trying my best to hold my professionalism with them, but good God, they have no … respect whatsoever,” Lovely said in the video. “Every time I talk to them … they are talking down to me.”

“Why is it that every time I encounter my subordinates that are black females they have a giant … attitude?” she asked.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/che ... 40f117ecd9



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Re: Military Mischief

#410

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:01 am

Maybenaut wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:52 am
Disgustiong.
An Air Force sergeant recorded herself ranting about her black subordinates. Now she’s suspended.

:snippity:

Tech. Sgt. Geraldine Lovely uploaded an expletive-laden video to Facebook of herself in uniform spouting off about her black female subordinates, who she said regularly give her “attitude” and have no “respect whatsoever.” Her offensive language drew reactions both at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada and across the country as the video went viral.

“I am trying my best to hold my professionalism with them, but good God, they have no … respect whatsoever,” Lovely said in the video. “Every time I talk to them … they are talking down to me.”

“Why is it that every time I encounter my subordinates that are black females they have a giant … attitude?” she asked.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/che ... 40f117ecd9
I would have "an attitude" and "no respect whatsoever" if she were my "superior" officer. 8-)


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Re: Military Mischief

#411

Post by pipistrelle » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:08 am

Someone who posts their rants on social media already doesn’t get professionalism.



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Re: Military Mischief

#412

Post by RVInit » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:42 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:08 am
Someone who posts their rants on social media already doesn’t get professionalism.
:yeah: Respect is earned. A good leader would have figured out how to solve this problem. She may have learned that she was the one who needed to make a change. Or not. But I'm guessing the former.


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Re: Military Mischief

#413

Post by ZekeB » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:59 am

A TSG was King S*** when I was in the AF. Apparently the rank doesn't mean what it use to.


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Re: Military Mischief

#414

Post by Maybenaut » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:17 am

RVInit wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:42 am
pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:08 am
Someone who posts their rants on social media already doesn’t get professionalism.
:yeah: Respect is earned. A good leader would have figured out how to solve this problem. She may have learned that she was the one who needed to make a change. Or not. But I'm guessing the former.
I think at the very least she’s going to learn the elements of some UCMJ articles:

Article 93 of the UCMJ (cruelty and maltreatment)
(1) That a certain person was subject to the orders of the accused; and
(2) That the accused was cruel toward, or oppressed, or maltreated that person. MCM, pt. IV, 17b.
Nature of the Victim
Measured objectively, it is reasonable that her African American subordinates would suffer emotional harm upon hearing her tirade (which is really all the government would have to prove).

And the elements of Article 134, UCMJ:
(1) That the accused did or failed to do certain acts; and
(2) That, under the circumstances, the accused’s conduct was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
This was both prejudicial to good order and discipline, and service discrediting.

She’s gone. She probably wouldn’t be court-martialed, but I would be shocked if she was not administratively separated.



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Re: Military Mischief

#415

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:13 pm

In case you wish to see the ladies rant, here you go
► Show Spoiler



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Re: Military Mischief

#416

Post by pipistrelle » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:24 pm

She sounds like a 12-year-old. Immature. Sad.



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Re: Military Mischief

#417

Post by RVInit » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:08 pm

pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:24 pm
She sounds like a 12-year-old. Immature. Sad.
:thumbs: It's too bad she didn't seek advice from the person she reports to on how to handle that kind of situation. She may have been given some good advice about sitting down with them one by one in a private setting to get to the bottom of what changes they thought might need to take place...yada yada. I had a similar situation although not with someone that reported to me. Many years ago a coworker was really snotty toward me. I took an opportunity when we were alone to ask her if I had offended her in some way. It lead to her really opening up with some honest feelings of jealousy she was dealing with regarding my being younger but having a higher position with higher pay, etc. This person didn't handle the situation very effectively at all.


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Re: Military Mischief

#418

Post by maydijo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:11 pm

RVInit wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:08 pm
pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:24 pm
She sounds like a 12-year-old. Immature. Sad.
:thumbs: It's too bad she didn't seek advice from the person she reports to on how to handle that kind of situation. She may have been given some good advice about sitting down with them one by one in a private setting to get to the bottom of what changes they thought might need to take place...yada yada. I had a similar situation although not with someone that reported to me. Many years ago a coworker was really snotty toward me. I took an opportunity when we were alone to ask her if I had offended her in some way. It lead to her really opening up with some honest feelings of jealousy she was dealing with regarding my being younger but having a higher position with higher pay, etc. This person didn't handle the situation very effectively at all.
Ha - I tried that once at a retail job and it resulted in her telling everyone else there about it in a mocking tone, just to make fun of me. Everyone else there knew she was a bit of a bitch so it didn't really work the way she wanted it to work; but it also didn't clear the air any! I'm glad it worked for you though.



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Re: Military Mischief

#419

Post by RVInit » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:16 pm

maydijo wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:11 pm
RVInit wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:08 pm
pipistrelle wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:24 pm
She sounds like a 12-year-old. Immature. Sad.
:thumbs: It's too bad she didn't seek advice from the person she reports to on how to handle that kind of situation. She may have been given some good advice about sitting down with them one by one in a private setting to get to the bottom of what changes they thought might need to take place...yada yada. I had a similar situation although not with someone that reported to me. Many years ago a coworker was really snotty toward me. I took an opportunity when we were alone to ask her if I had offended her in some way. It lead to her really opening up with some honest feelings of jealousy she was dealing with regarding my being younger but having a higher position with higher pay, etc. This person didn't handle the situation very effectively at all.
Ha - I tried that once at a retail job and it resulted in her telling everyone else there about it in a mocking tone, just to make fun of me. Everyone else there knew she was a bit of a bitch so it didn't really work the way she wanted it to work; but it also didn't clear the air any! I'm glad it worked for you though.
As a supervisor, this person really had the upper hand on it and could have effected some real change, one way or the other. Bottom line is that certain things aren't tolerated in the military, disrespecting seniors being one of those things. Of course, it's been a while since I was connected in any way to the military, so maybe this has gone out the window.
Edit: In private companies this kind of thing actually does go to possible hostile work environment, so it can also be handled that way, even if it ends up requiring both parties to sit down with the supervisor. No reason to put up with this behavior from a coworker.


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Re: Military Mischief

#420

Post by maydijo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:31 pm

RVInit wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:16 pm
maydijo wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:11 pm
RVInit wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:08 pm


:thumbs: It's too bad she didn't seek advice from the person she reports to on how to handle that kind of situation. She may have been given some good advice about sitting down with them one by one in a private setting to get to the bottom of what changes they thought might need to take place...yada yada. I had a similar situation although not with someone that reported to me. Many years ago a coworker was really snotty toward me. I took an opportunity when we were alone to ask her if I had offended her in some way. It lead to her really opening up with some honest feelings of jealousy she was dealing with regarding my being younger but having a higher position with higher pay, etc. This person didn't handle the situation very effectively at all.
Ha - I tried that once at a retail job and it resulted in her telling everyone else there about it in a mocking tone, just to make fun of me. Everyone else there knew she was a bit of a bitch so it didn't really work the way she wanted it to work; but it also didn't clear the air any! I'm glad it worked for you though.
As a supervisor, this person really had the upper hand on it and could have effected some real change, one way or the other. Bottom line is that certain things aren't tolerated in the military, disrespecting seniors being one of those things. Of course, it's been a while since I was connected in any way to the military, so maybe this has gone out the window.
Edit: In private companies this kind of thing actually does go to possible hostile work environment, so it can also be handled that way, even if it ends up requiring both parties to sit down with the supervisor. No reason to put up with this behavior from a coworker.
Off Topic
I knew I'd only be at the job for three months so I wasn't too fussed; I just chalked it up to her being a bitch and avoided her. The only other time I've had a hostile work environment, it was the supervisor who was causing all the problems, so after weighing up my options I walked, but only after I'd taken the 9+ months of sick leave that was owing me. Former co-workers tell me she's still got it in for me for that. I'll end the threadjack, sorry.



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Re: Military Mischief

#421

Post by Dolly » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:54 pm

02/14/18 04:12 PM EST
Three Navy leaders fired after officer found drunk, naked in woods: report

The U.S. Navy has fired an entire unit's command leadership after the unit's executive officer was found drunk and walking naked in the woods, The Navy Times reported Wednesday.

Lt. Cmdr. Jason Gabbard — of Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 4, currently deployed to Okinawa, Japan — was fired Feb. 11.

Leadership relieved Gabbard after he was discovered in the woods on Camp Shields wearing only his boots, following a command gathering for chiefs and officers, service officials told Navy Times.

Commanding officer Cmdr. James Cho and Command Master Chief Jason Holden were also let go. A source told The Navy Times that they were fired because they attempted to cover up the incident. <SNIP>
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/37389 ... ods-report

TAGS for the article: NAVY FIRED NAKED DRUNK JAPAN

There is another thread: "No more alcohol for US troops in Japan"
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 40#p933940


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Re: Military Mischief

#422

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:08 pm

"Fired" sounds like an odd way to phrase it for the military. I would expect it to be relieved of command or court martialed or discharged. Can they just "fire" Navy personnel?



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Re: Military Mischief

#423

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:27 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:08 pm
"Fired" sounds like an odd way to phrase it for the military. I would expect it to be relieved of command or court martialed or discharged. Can they just "fire" Navy personnel?
I've heard "fired" used as a synonym for relieved of command throughout my wife's entire career - including when it involved sudden leadership changes during a deployment. (E.g. "I don't know for sure why they fired that battalion commander, but yesterday his wife threw all his shit on the lawn and was trying to set fire to it when the MPs showed up.")


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Re: Military Mischief

#424

Post by Dolly » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:42 pm

Rereading The Hill article, there was a link to The Navy Times in the first sentence.
Seabee command triad fired after XO found strolling naked in woods

The entire command triad of Naval Mobile Construction Battalion 4, currently deployed to Okinawa, Japan, was fired Feb. 11 after the unit’s executive officer was found intoxicated and walking naked in the woods on Camp Shields.

Lt. Cmdr. Jason M. Gabbard, the unit’s XO, was relieved after being discovered in the woods wearing only his boots following a command gathering for chiefs and officers, Navy officials said.

The commanding officer, Cmdr. James J. Cho, and Command Master Chief (SCW/EXW) Jason K. Holden, were also relieved for their handling of the incident, which they attempted to cover up, a source told Navy Times.
.................
Cho, Gabbard and Holden have been temporarily assigned to Naval Construction Group One in Port Hueneme, California, according to Cmdr. Cate Cook, spokeswoman for Navy Expeditionary Combat Command. <SNIP>
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-nav ... -in-woods/


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Re: Military Mischief

#425

Post by Maybenaut » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:03 pm

I think they’re using “fired” in a colloquial sense. You can be fired from the military, but only after they’ve afforded you the due process so valued by our president. The amount of process due varies by service, and also depends on the rank of the accused, the time in service, and the type of offense.



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