Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

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Mikedunford
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:44 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:Is any of that even legal???
Ability to deploy is, I believe, already considered when determining whether to keep someone in the military. And inability to deploy isn't necessarily decisive in whether someone should stay or go, it's just a factor that gets considered. That applies to anything that could affect ability to deploy, not just gender identity, and it's totally appropriate, at least IMO. It goes directly toward ability to do the job. So that part is very likely legal (and probably already happening anyway).

Refusing entry to transexuals may or may not be legal. That depends on the laws and regulations that govern setting entry standards for the service. I don't know what those are, I don't know what standard of review (if any) applies to decisions to change them.

Denying funding for treatment will probably depend on the treatment. I doubt that the military is currently providing gender reassignment surgery, and I'm not sure that they're providing hormone replacement therapy. Continuing to not offer those services is probably acceptable. Withdrawing funding for HRT that may have already commenced is problematic. Denying funding for mental health treatment or counseling is probably a no-go.
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Suranis
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Suranis » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:59 pm

Has anythig actually happened on this bar one stupid twit making a stupid twit, then sitting back and enjoying people talking about him for weeks without actually doing anything about it?

Because, frankly, I don't think the OSG will bother his ass doing anything. He said just enough to distract the outragerati from his legal problems and russia ties and thats all he wanted.
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June bug
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by June bug » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:31 pm

WSJ says ban on enlistment has been written up by the White House to be sent to the Pentagon, though he will give Mattis some leeway on those already serving.

IIRC Trump's original move came about because Freedom Caucus House members didn't want the military paying for transgender surgeries. They threatened not to vote to fund the wall unless there was a way to ban those payments. Health care repeal had also just failed and Trump needed something to throw at his base to distract them. So of course he went way past what the House members had demanded and banned transgenders completely...essentially on a whim. :madguy: Lordy, what a cretin he is.

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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by SLQ » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:40 pm

kate520 wrote:I agree that Trump is base.

From the stories I've read, i wouldn't be surprised if this is a tantrum, to show those military assholes that he can't be pushed around, after they said he couldn't withdraw from Afghanistan.
CNN had an article yesterday surmising as much:

Unspoken aim of Trump's ire: his own aides' advice
When President Donald Trump's aides said he wouldn't discuss a pardon of controversial Sheriff Joe Arpaio, he did it anyway. When they warned him against lashing Arizona's Republican senators by name, he made snide allusions to them instead. And when they insisted his statements about white supremacist violence required a re-do, he declared he was right the first time.

For all of Trump's bluster at Tuesday evening's campaign rally -- against the media, Democrats, and some Republicans -- a rebuke of his own staff lay just beneath the surface, the latest indication that efforts to rein him in instead cause him to act out.
Moar at the link.

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RoadScholar
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:42 pm

ZekeB wrote:
kate520 wrote:I agree that Trump is base.
I find him to be acid myself.
Not to mention salty.
The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.

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Chilidog
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Chilidog » Thu Aug 24, 2017 3:51 pm

So if someone is attending a service academy or is in an ROTC program. and the military up and prevents them from fulfilling their active duty service obligation, will they have to repay the government for four years of tuition, room and board?

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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:42 pm

Chilidog wrote:So if someone is attending a service academy or is in an ROTC program. and the military up and prevents them from fulfilling their active duty service obligation, will they have to repay the government for four years of tuition, room and board?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/military-ban ... uote]Riley Dosh, 22, of St. Paul, Minn., became the first openly transgender graduate of West Point in May. She dreamed of becoming an air defense artillery officer shooting down intercontinental ballistic missiles to defend the country she loves.

“That was the dream job with the Army. That’s what I wanted to do,” she told Yahoo News.

Now it seems that all her military training has been for naught. Faced with President Trump’s impending ban, which would prevent transgender people from serving in the armed forces “in any capacity,” she’s thinking about becoming a math teacher or perhaps a data analyst. On her graduation, she received her diploma and an honorable discharge.In the coming days, as the Wall Street Journal first reported, the Pentagon will receive a two-and-a-half page memo with instructions for executing the White House’s new policy: Deny applications from transgender people, stop paying for current transgender service members’ medical treatment and consider “deployability” when deciding whether to remove current members from the military. According to the report, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis will be given six months to prepare before fully implementing the administration’s ban.
[/quote]

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Suranis
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Suranis » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:15 pm

June bug wrote:WSJ says ban on enlistment has been written up by the White House to be sent to the Pentagon, though he will give Mattis some leeway on those already serving.
Thanks, i didn't know that.
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Lani
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Lani » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:50 pm

(CNN) President Donald Trump on Friday directed the military not to move forward with an Obama-era plan that would have allowed transgender individuals to be recruited into the armed forces, following through on his intentions announced a month earlier to ban transgender people from serving.

The presidential memorandum also bans the Department of Defense from using its resources to provide medical treatment regimens for transgender individuals currently serving in the military.

Trump also directed the departments of Defense and Homeland Security "to determine how to address transgender individuals currently serving based on military effectiveness and lethality, unitary cohesion, budgetary constraints, applicable law, and all factors that may be relevant," the White House official said.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/25/politics/ ... index.html
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:10 pm

What a WASTE - of energy, money, talent, skills, camaraderie, equality, fairness, and whatever else you want to add.
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Volkonski » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:39 pm

I am beginning to think that Trump is not a nice or good man.
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Skip Intro
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Skip Intro » Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:48 pm

Trump's only plan is to undo everything the black guy did.
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:33 pm

Skip Intro wrote:Trump's only plan is to undo everything the black guy did.
Thanks for reminding me. Luckily, he hasn't spent much time on proposing federal judges.
“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.


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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by SLQ » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:31 am


Jim
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Jim » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:20 pm

Mattis freezes transgender policy; allows troops to continue serving, pending study
Defense Secretary Jim Mattis late Tuesday announced that transgender troops will be allowed to continue serving in the military pending the results of a study by experts.

The announcement follows an order from President Trump — first announced in a tweet — declaring that transgender service members can no longer serve in the military, effectively reversing an Obama administration policy. The order also affects the Department of Homeland Security, which houses the Coast Guard.

"Once the panel reports its recommendations and following my consultation with the secretary of Homeland Security, I will provide my advice to the president concerning implementation of his policy direction," Mattis said in the statement. "In the interim, current policy with respect to currently serving members will remain in place."

Mattis' move buys time for the Pentagon to determine how and if it will allow thousands of transgender troops to continue to serve, whether they will receive medical treatment, or how they will be discharged.
I guess that's one way to stand up to dumb orders by the WH. :boxing:

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:06 pm

And at the glacial pace the military can mo0ve at when it puts its mind to it that could be sometime after LaRump's successor's successor's administration.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Maybenaut
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Maybenaut » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:44 pm

USA Today wrote:Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, responded by saying that the Pentagon would not change its policy until it was notified officially by the White House.

The president issued that notification Friday night. It directed Mattis to study the issue and determine how to implement Trump's direction.
It appears to me that Mattis is following his orders.

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Mikedunford
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:13 am

Maybenaut wrote:
USA Today wrote:Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, responded by saying that the Pentagon would not change its policy until it was notified officially by the White House.

The president issued that notification Friday night. It directed Mattis to study the issue and determine how to implement Trump's direction.
It appears to me that Mattis is following his orders.
:yeah:

I looked at the text of the actual order last week when it came out. It is (quelle surprise) much more modest than the rhetoric would suggest.
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Chilidog
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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by Chilidog » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:14 am

I wonder if the Pentagon is going to slow walk this if they determine that the proposed policies won't survive a legal challenge.

What if they study the issue and decide that the existing policy is fine?

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Re: Trump Ban on Transgender Military Service

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:07 am

Maybenaut wrote:
USA Today wrote:Marine Gen. Joseph Dunford, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, responded by saying that the Pentagon would not change its policy until it was notified officially by the White House.

The president issued that notification Friday night. It directed Mattis to study the issue and determine how to implement Trump's direction.
It appears to me that Mattis is following his orders.
I remember many of Teh Donalds EOs were directing studies rather than an implementation to screw up something. I wonder if staffers know how to defuse a bomb and potus does not recognize the difference.

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