Military Mischief

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SueDB
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #351 by SueDB » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:16 am

Maybenaut wrote:Here's an article from the Washington Post about a Navy Sailor who refused to salute during the National Anthem.

I have mixed feelings about this. I get where she's coming from, but you can't pick and choose which regulations you're going to follow.


I agree. Folks have a right to protest under the rules and the rules for military can be quite different.

There are many folks who end up being surprised when they find out that the UCMJ Uniform Code of Military Justice governing the military is in ways quite different from being a normal civilian.

I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't offer punishment under Article 15 (no civilian record/traces) - and hopefully the troop is smart enough to sign it. A court marshal record would not be helpful (Special/BCD Special as IIRR you can refuse the Article 15 and the lowest level CM - the Summary or judge only court marshal).


“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.”
? William Gibson

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Suranis
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #352 by Suranis » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:24 am

Yeah, I'm sorry, but when you are wearing the Uniform you salute, no matter your private feelings. You are representing something and your other team members while in uniform.


Some are born cretins, some achieve cretiniss, and some have cretiniss forced upon them.

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SueDB
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #353 by SueDB » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:22 pm

Navy Has Punished at Least One Sailor So Far-This one is an NCO-PO2 - Could Go Hard...

The Navy's protocol handbook says sailors in uniform must salute during the anthem. They must also face the flag, or if a flag is not visible, sailors are required to face the direction of the music.

Troops who don’t stand for the National Anthem could face prosecution under the Navy’s Uniform Code of Military Justice for violating Article 92, which says that troops can be punished for failing to obey a lawful general order.


“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.”
? William Gibson

Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!

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Maybenaut
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #354 by Maybenaut » Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:57 pm

SueDB wrote:Navy Has Punished at Least One Sailor So Far-This one is an NCO-PO2 - Could Go Hard...

The Navy's protocol handbook says sailors in uniform must salute during the anthem. They must also face the flag, or if a flag is not visible, sailors are required to face the direction of the music.

Troops who don’t stand for the National Anthem could face prosecution under the Navy’s Uniform Code of Military Justice for violating Article 92, which says that troops can be punished for failing to obey a lawful general order.


I have my doubts about that. To qualify as a "lawful general order or regulation" the regulation at issue has to include specific language that the Navy's protocol handbook doesn't include, notably, that the person has to be on notice that failure to obey the rehulation could result in punitive, as opposed to merely administrative, sanction. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not punishable under some other article (for example, Article 134, which prohibits conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline, and conduct of a nature to bring discredit on the armed forces). It might seem like a meaningless distinction, but a "simple disorder" under Article 134 carries a maximum punishment of 4 months and no punitive discharge, while the maximum punishment for violating a lawful general order or regulation is two years plus a dishonorable discharge.



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SueDB
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #355 by SueDB » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:38 pm

Maybenaut wrote:
SueDB wrote:Navy Has Punished at Least One Sailor So Far-This one is an NCO-PO2 - Could Go Hard...

The Navy's protocol handbook says sailors in uniform must salute during the anthem. They must also face the flag, or if a flag is not visible, sailors are required to face the direction of the music.

Troops who don’t stand for the National Anthem could face prosecution under the Navy’s Uniform Code of Military Justice for violating Article 92, which says that troops can be punished for failing to obey a lawful general order.


I have my doubts about that. To qualify as a "lawful general order or regulation" the regulation at issue has to include specific language that the Navy's protocol handbook doesn't include, notably, that the person has to be on notice that failure to obey the rehulation could result in punitive, as opposed to merely administrative, sanction. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not punishable under some other article (for example, Article 134, which prohibits conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline, and conduct of a nature to bring discredit on the armed forces). It might seem like a meaningless distinction, but a "simple disorder" under Article 134 carries a maximum punishment of 4 months and no punitive discharge, while the maximum punishment for violating a lawful general order or regulation is two years plus a dishonorable discharge.


It's someone's press release -
Edit: Ah, It's Faux News... So, take it with a big crystal of salt.

Conduct Unbecoming an NCO?


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? William Gibson

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Maybenaut
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #356 by Maybenaut » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:58 pm

There isn't any such offense as conduct unbecoming an NCO. There's conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman, bit that only applies to officers. She could be charged with a simple disorder under 134, and maybe with dereliction of duty under Atricle 92 (a duty can arise from a "custom of the service").



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SueDB
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #357 by SueDB » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:22 pm

Maybenaut wrote:There isn't any such offense as conduct unbecoming an NCO. There's conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman, bit that only applies to officers. She could be charged with a simple disorder under 134, and maybe with dereliction of duty under Atricle 92 (a duty can arise from a "custom of the service").


Thank you :-D


“Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure that you are not, in fact, just surrounding yourself with assholes.”
? William Gibson

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optimusprime
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Re: Military Mischief

Post #358 by optimusprime » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:17 pm

She is also a reservist.

What are they going to do - lock her up on drill weekends once a month and for two weeks in the summer?

To make this "go away" nicely, she will get a commander's reprimand and/or a bar to re-enlistment. With the reprimand in her file, she can then receive a negative block on the loyalty, respect and other check blocks on her efficiency report (I am Army, so there are different yearly reports, so forgive if I have stated something different for the US Navy) and her write up will suck. That will mean no more promotions, the bar to re-enlistment will boot her out, and she can then wait for her characterization of service stamp to be "less than honorable." Of course, she can spend the next 15 years battling service review boards and other actions to return her good name, but she is just about to get screwed royally.



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Re: Military Mischief

Post #359 by RTH10260 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:22 am

Case last mentioned further up in 2015

Admiral and 8 Other Navy Officers Indicted on Bribery Charges
By ERIC LICHTBLAU MARCH 14, 2017

WASHINGTON — A retired United States Navy admiral and eight other high-ranking officers were indicted on Tuesday in a widening bribery scandal in which prosecutors say a foreign contractor traded luxury travel, lavish gifts and prostitutes for inside intelligence.

A total of 25 military officers and private-sector executives have now been prosecuted in one of the worst corruption scandals to hit the military in years.

Prosecutors, laying out in unsparing detail a plot that stretched from Singapore to Washington, accused the officers — all with the Seventh Fleet in the Pacific, the Navy’s largest — of betraying the public trust for bribes from a well-connected military contractor in Singapore, Leonard Glenn Francis, known as Fat Leonard. The scheme cost the Navy “tens of millions of dollars” in overbillings to Mr. Francis’ firm, as he relied on sensitive and sometimes classified information the officers had given them to game the system, according to the indictment.

The yearslong bribery scheme “amounts to a staggering degree of corruption by the most prominent leaders of the Seventh Fleet,” said Alana W. Robinson, the acting United States attorney in San Diego, where the charges were brought.

The officers “actively worked together as a team to trade secrets for sex, serving the interests of a greedy foreign defense contractor, and not those of their own country,” Ms. Robinson said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/14/us/a ... arges.html



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Re: Military Mischief

Post #360 by RoadScholar » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:49 am

Trump has probably done everything they did and more.

Just sayin'.


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.


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