Syria - Stepping into the Void

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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#251

Post by Foggy » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:16 am

Has FoxNews given Trump permission for this attack on Syria yet? :think:


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#252

Post by ZekeB » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:17 am

His mind is a bit bizzy right now. Who knows when Syria will be back on his front burner...


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Voisure.

#253

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:43 am

Those "grave repercussions" might be just what is needed to bring our relationship with Russia back onto a sensible trajectory.

I lke the UK and French responses but am not di that That Trump will notove them.


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#254

Post by bob » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:18 am

ZekeB wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:17 am
His mind is a bit bizzy right now. Who knows when Syria will be back on his front burner...


The last war will be tweeted. Cf.:


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#255

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:47 am

ZekeB wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:17 am
His mind is a bit bdizzy right now. Who knows when Syria will be back on his front burner...
FIFY



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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#256

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:36 pm


Guardian news

@guardiannews

Turkey's ever-closer ties with Russia leave US lacking key ally on Syria
https://
ebx.sh/2Heo0NG

12:33 PM - Apr 11, 2018


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#257

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:40 pm

bob wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:18 am
ZekeB wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:17 am
His mind is a bit bizzy right now. Who knows when Syria will be back on his front burner...


The last war will be tweeted. Cf.:
Stop the arms race? Trump just greatly increased the Pentgon's budget.

Schoolboy-like taunting of Russia. :roll: Trump is crazy. :madguy:


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#258

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:42 pm

3 things Donald Trump did wrong in his taunting Russia tweet

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/11/politics ... index.html
1. Twitter isn't the place to kind of, sort of announce a military strike

:snippity:

2. What happened to not telegraphing our military actions?

:snippity:

3. No one knows how seriously to take this

The prospect of launching missiles at Syria -- missiles that Russia has pledged to shoot down -- is a very serious thing to decide. The problem is that no one really knows Trump has actually decided to do it -- or not.

Was this tweet a purposeful kick-off of a missile launch? Did the top brass in the military know about it?Had they OK'd the language and timing of the tweet?

Or was this just Trump popping off? Watching early morning cable TV, seeing a report about Russia's pledge to shoot down missiles aimed at Syria and thinking "I'll show them"?


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#259

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:12 pm


Malcolm Nance

@MalcolmNance

PREDICTION: If Trump defies Putin & US strike forces Ru to shoot down missiles ... a verifiable hotel room screen cap of Trump & unknown woman at Ms Universe 2013 will be soon leaked by Kremlin. Bank on it. #Kompromat
https://
twitter.com/thedailybeast/
status/984030837350989824

6:41 AM - Apr 11, 2018


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#260

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:13 pm


ABC News

@ABC

NEW: Putin, Netanyahu spoke by phone today, their offices say.

Putin "underlined the fundamental importance of observing Syria's sovereignty,” Russian readout says; Israeli readout says Netanyahu "reiterated that Israel would not allow for Iranian military buildup in Syria.”
2:03 PM - Apr 11, 2018


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#261

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:01 pm

Tensions are building. I have lost track of what air defense resources Russia has in Syria. A little while back Russia was building several air bases there.

US-Russia tensions build as Moscow hits back at Trump's Twitter threat
Trump tells Russia to ‘get ready’ for US missiles fired at Syria
Kremlin spokesman: ‘We do not participate in Twitter diplomacy’


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... CMP=twt_gu
“We do not participate in Twitter diplomacy,” Peskov was quoted as saying by Interfax. “We support serious approaches. We continue to believe that it is important not to take steps that could harm an already fragile situation.”

A US naval battlegroup - including the guided missile destroyer USS Donald Cook, and mostly likely a cruise missile submarine, USS Georgia - was in place in the eastern Mediterranean on Wednesday night.

In anticipation of an attack, Syrian planes had been flown to three Russian air bases and senior Syrian government officials had been moved to safe houses in Damascus, according to sources in Turkey.

Trump’s 7am tweet came after news reports quoted the Russian ambassador to Lebanon, Alexander Zasypkin, warning that Russian forces in Syria would intercept any incoming US missiles, and return fire at their source, likely meaning US planes or ships.


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#262

Post by bob » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:05 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:01 pm
I have lost track of what air defense resources Russia has in Syria.
Newsweek: Can Russia Defeat U.S. Missiles In Syria? Yes, But It Will Not Be Easy:
Russia vowed Wednesday to shoot down any missiles President Donald Trump may launch against Syria. A defense expert said that Moscow was, in fact, able to block a U.S. attack—but it could prove difficult.

* * *

"[Missile defense] was one of the main design drivers for the MiG-31 Foxhound interceptor aircraft. Similarly, a range of surface-to-air missile systems, such as the long-range S-400 (SA-21 Growler) and point defense Pantsir (SA-22 Greyhound) also have the capability to be used against cruise missiles," Barrie continued.

"The last two systems, the SA-21 and SA-22, have been deployed to Syria as part of the Russian presence. To engage cruise missiles, however, you first have to locate them in flight and then have missile systems within range to engage or to located close to the intended targets. Given the comparatively limited Russian presence in Syria this presents a challenge," he added.


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#263

Post by Volkonski » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Trump’s ‘get ready’ threat to Moscow isn’t just careless, it’s dangerous

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -war-syria
If a sense of escalation has been palpable in the past few days, first in the Russian threat to shoot down US missiles, then Trump’s knee-jerk response, what is clear is that in his tweet, Trump has dangerously widened the scope of the crisis, from frustration among the international community at Moscow’s shielding of Assad, to hinting at the possibility of a clash with Russia.

That plays into deeper and darker themes of a competition between Putin and Trump – both thin-skinned populist nationalists who have vowed to make their countries “great again”. Two men with fragile egos who have each yoked to their national ambitions.

What is abundantly clear is that in just over three dozen ill-conceived words, Trump has added a new a sense of peril to the war in Syria.


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#264

Post by tencats » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:21 am

Why Trump can’t reverse Syrian regime dirty win in Ghouta & why Iran is Gloating
By Juan Cole | Apr. 12, 2018 |https://www.juancole.com/2018/04/revers ... ating.html
The Trump administration and the May government in the UK seem poised to launch missile strikes on Syria in the near future. It probably won’t matter.

The Syrian regime figures it can take the punishment, which is likely to consist of another set of one-off missile strikes similar to those launched on the Shuayrat Base in spring of 2017 after a chemical weapons attack by the regime in Khan Sheykhoun. Syrian and Iranian troops are said to be quietly deserting major air force bases, temporarily relocating outside them, in anticipation of the strikes.

The Syrian regime has all but won the civil war. It has all the major cities–Damascus, Aleppo, Latakia, Homs, and even Hama. It controls what the French colonialists used to call “useful Syria,” the band of fertile land stretching from Damascus to the north in the west of the country. While it has lost the ten percent of the population that is Kurds in the northeast, the Syrian Kurds are not regime enemies and likely will be forced into an alliance with Damascus over time in the face of attacks by Turkey and by fundamentalist Arab militias backed by Turkey.
:snippity:
While the focus of the Western press has been on the response from Trump, who considers chemical use a red line that requires a US military response, it has been little noted that al-Assad’s ploy worked.

The Army of Islam leaders abruptly surrendered, perhaps under severe pressure from Douma’s terrified civilian population, who did not want to be further gassed so that the Saudi-backed Salafis could go on trying to save face.
https://www.juancole.com/2018/04/revers ... ating.html



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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#265

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:26 am

Volkonski wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:11 pm
Trump’s ‘get ready’ threat to Moscow isn’t just careless, it’s dangerous

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -war-syria
If a sense of escalation has been palpable in the past few days, first in the Russian threat to shoot down US missiles, then Trump’s knee-jerk response, what is clear is that in his tweet, Trump has dangerously widened the scope of the crisis, from frustration among the international community at Moscow’s shielding of Assad, to hinting at the possibility of a clash with Russia.

That plays into deeper and darker themes of a competition between Putin and Trump – both thin-skinned populist nationalists who have vowed to make their countries “great again”. Two men with fragile egos who have each yoked to their national ambitions.

What is abundantly clear is that in just over three dozen ill-conceived words, Trump has added a new a sense of peril to the war in Syria.
Competition? IMHO I disagree with author on this. Putin has been a politician for decades, has known the political tricks of rising in a bureaucracy. Trump is a baby playing in a sand pit and thrashing sand. Putin has some long range political targets in positioning his country on the world map. Dotus does not even know what a world map is. It will turn into an unfair game if dotus continues his mindless blather on twitter and elsewhere. If there is no immediate international military reaction to an inner-Syrian event then it will be condemned as a one sided atttack. Dotus and his administration not being prepared for such and not having something pre-planned with its allies will look bad. Especially cause it seems to me that any large scale intervention may also leave collateral damage if they don't just till over some empty airfields again.



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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#266

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:45 am

Dotus dropping out of a military intervention?
Trump attempts to cloud timing of potential Syria strike

By Jennifer Hansler, CNN

Updated 1225 GMT (2025 HKT) April 12, 2018

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump on Thursday attempted to cloud the timing of potential airstrikes on Syria, a day after indicating they were imminent.

"Never said when an attack on Syria would take place. Could be very soon or not so soon at all!," the President tweeted. But Trump notably did not rule out plans to attack Syria in retaliation for the weekend's suspected chemical attack on civilians at the hands of the Assad regime.

Trump on Wednesday vowed to thwart Russia's missile defense system in Syria, warning that rockets "will be coming, nice and new and 'smart.'" The President did not specifically refer to the attack's timing in that tweet, but warned Russia to "get ready."

But in tweeting about a potential attack, Trump appeared to publicly telegraph military plans -- something for which he heavily criticized former President Barack Obama back in 2013.



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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#267

Post by Volkonski » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:06 am


ABC News

@ABC

NEW: Germany says it won't participate in possible military action in Syria.
https://
abcn.ws/2EIUhXW

7:13 AM - Apr 12, 2018


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#268

Post by Foggy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:03 am

Competition? IMHO I disagree with author on this. Putin has been a politician for decades, has known the political tricks of rising in a bureaucracy. Trump is a baby playing in a sand pit and thrashing sand. Putin has some long range political targets in positioning his country on the world map. Dotus does not even know what a world map is. It will turn into an unfair game if dotus continues his mindless blather on twitter and elsewhere. If there is no immediate international military reaction to an inner-Syrian event then it will be condemned as a one sided atttack. Dotus and his administration not being prepared for such and not having something pre-planned with its allies will look bad. Especially cause it seems to me that any large scale intervention may also leave collateral damage if they don't just till over some empty airfields again.
People, this dude lives in Switzerland (and Thailand) and sees our country as clearly as any of us. Way more clearly than DOTUS or anyone willing to work for him. :thumbs:


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#269

Post by Volkonski » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:27 am


ABC News

@ABC

Asked what worries him most about possible military action in Syria, Defense Sec. Mattis says, "On a strategic level, it's how do we keep this from escalating out of control, if you get my drift on that."
https://
abcn.ws/2qrbYG9

10:07 AM - Apr 12, 2018


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#270

Post by Volkonski » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:53 am

ABC News

@ABC

NEW: Pres. Trump: "We're having a meeting today on Syria...We're looking very, very seriously, very closely at that whole situation.

"We'll see what happens, folks...It's too bad that the world puts us in a position like that."
https://
abcn.ws/2GQfCnY

10:50 AM - Apr 12, 2018
When it comes to war-related rhetoric Trump is no Churchill.


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#271

Post by Suranis » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:14 pm

OH WHY HAS THE WORLD FORCED ME INTO THIS POSITION!!!

its never your responsibility is it, SOSOTUS


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#272

Post by TollandRCR » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:54 pm

Trump is no Obama. Or Bush or Bush or Nixon or Eisenhower or JFK or ....

Nor are members of his Cabinet.

Much depends upon the military. That is not as intended by the Constitution.
.


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#273

Post by Skip Intro » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:01 pm

Trump explains his Syria strategy.

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In the Trump era anything is true if enough people believe it.

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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#274

Post by RVInit » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:14 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:54 pm
Trump is no Obama. Or Bush or Bush or Nixon or Eisenhower or JFK or ....

Nor are members of his Cabinet.

Much depends upon the military. That is not as intended by the Constitution.
.
:yeah: Sadly, I think the proper role of the military in a democracy is misunderstood, or worse, not even on the radar, of a large portion of the US population. Civilian control of the military is an absolute necessity, it is not supposed to be the other way around. Yes, the military is supposed to protect our homeland, but it was never intended to be up to the military to make sure our civilian government remains intact against itself, it is supposed to be a civilian government that maintains authority over the military.


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Re: Syria - Stepping into the Void

#275

Post by Volkonski » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:31 pm


The Guardian

@guardian

Corbyn says MPs must be consulted on any UK military action in Syria
https://
trib.al/FjaNXtS

12:19 PM - Apr 12, 2018
Germany won't be attacking Syria. France seems ready to do so. Britain is divided on the issue.


Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
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