Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

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TollandRCR
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#26

Post by TollandRCR »

It is most important that Israelis get a grip on Israel. It is not healthy for either Israel or the U.S. for such grave decisions to be in our hands.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut
John Thomas8
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#27

Post by John Thomas8 »

The Israeli electorate is being ignored. There's not much support outside of their very own RWNJs for attacking Iran, but benny and his gang don't care.
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mimi
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#28

Post by mimi »

so yesterday it was reported that Netanyahu asked to meet with obama and he declined, saying no time.jake tapper gave a different story last night. bottoms up, it's twitter;Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper3) Tonight they spoke. WH says no meeting in DC was requested, one in NYC couldnt happen. Tune in tomorrow to see what Israelis say!Expand12h Jake Tapper Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper2) WH says POTUS/Bibi skeds didnt overlap. Israeli official tells abc news they offered to come to DC. WH says thats not the case...Expand12h Jake Tapper Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper1) This US/Israel meeting thing is complicated. So here goes: Israelis wanted to meet in NYC during UN Genl Assembly....Expand12h Jake Tapper Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapperWH: "Contrary to reports in the press, there was never a request" for Netanyahu to meet with POTUS in DC, nor was one deniedExpand12h Jake Tapper Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapperWH: POTUS spoke with Israeli PM Netanyahu for an hour this evening re: Iran + security issuesExpand[/break1]com/jaketapper]https://twitter.com/jaketapperthis was tweeted. see the date.Netanyahu ‘determined to attack Iran’ before US elections, claims Israel’s Channel 10TV reporter adds: ‘I doubt Obama could say anything that would convince PM to delay a possible attack’By Times of Israel staff August 20, 2012, 9:49 pm[/break1]timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-determined-to-attack-iran-before-us-elections-claims-israels-channel-10/]http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu- ... hannel-10/but i don't know that source.
Off Topic
in other news, a new keyboard was ordered. i seem to be having this thing rebuilt piece by piece.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#29

Post by John Thomas8 »

If Israel gets that ignorant, the US elections and economy will become a side story.
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TollandRCR
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#30

Post by TollandRCR »

The Times of Israel is connected to [link]Israel Insider,http://israelinsider.net/profile/TheTim ... memberList[/link], a far right-wing, extreme Zionist publication rarely read in Israel. A current headline isBubble, bubble, more Bibi-Obama trouble: Jerusalem official says White House lied about not nixing meeting This "senior government official" is anonymous. I might believe Orly Taitz before I believe Israel Insider.
“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut
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mimi
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#31

Post by mimi »

thanks, tolland. so they are sorta like a wnd or moony-times. yeah, i do equate those together.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#32

Post by Addie »

Thomas Friedman Op-Ed in [link]The New York Times,http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/11/opini ... -busy.html[/link]





My President Is Busy





ISRAELI friends have been asking me whether a re-elected President Obama will take revenge on Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu for the way he and Sheldon Adelson, his foolhardy financier, openly backed Mitt Romney. My answer to Israelis is this: You should be so lucky.





You should be so lucky that the president feels he has the time, energy and political capital to spend wrestling with Bibi to forge a peace between Israelis and Palestinians. I don’t see it anytime soon. Obama has his marching orders from the American people: Focus on Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, not on Bethlehem, Palestine, and focus on getting us out of quagmires (Afghanistan) not into them (Syria). No, my Israeli friends, it’s much worse than you think: You’re home alone. ...





Is this good for Israel? No. It is unhealthy. The combination of America’s internal focus, the post-Arab awakening turmoil and the exhaustion of Palestinians means Israel can stay in the West Bank indefinitely at a very low short-term cost but at a very high long-term cost of losing its identity as a Jewish democracy. If Israelis want to escape that fate, it is very important that they understand that we’re not your grandfather’s America anymore.





To begin with, the rising political force in America is not the one with which Bibi has aligned Israel. As the Israeli columnist Ari Shavit noted in the newspaper Haaretz last week: “In the past, both the Zionist movement and the Jewish state were careful to be identified with the progressive forces in the world. ... But in recent decades more and more Israelis took to leaning on the reactionary forces in American society. It was convenient to lean on them. The evangelists didn’t ask difficult questions about the settlements, the Tea Party people didn’t say a word about excluding women and minorities or about Jewish settlers’ attacks and acts of vandalism against Palestinians and peace activists. The Republican Party’s white, religious, conservative wing was not agitated when the Israeli Supreme Court was attacked and the rule of law in Israel was trampled.” Israel, Shavit added, assumed that “under the patronage of a radical, rightist America we can conduct a radical, rightist policy without paying the price.” No more. Netanyahu can still get a standing ovation from the Israel lobby, but not at U.C.L.A. ...





So my best advice to Israelis is: Focus on your own election — on Jan. 22 — not ours. I find it very sad that in a country with so much human talent, the Israeli center and left still can’t agree on a national figure who could run against Netanyahu and his thuggish partner, Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman — a man whose commitment to democracy is closer to Vladimir Putin’s than Thomas Jefferson’s. Don’t count on America to ride to the rescue. It has to start with you.
"The very least you can do in your life is to figure out what you hope for." - Barbara Kingsolver
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#33

Post by verbalobe »

=D>
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#34

Post by Plutodog »

Yep. Hope they figure it out. Soon.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#35

Post by ObjectiveDoubter »

I saw often disagree with Friedman, but I couldn't agree more this time. Excellent piece.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#36

Post by ducktape »

I saw often disagree with Friedman, but I couldn't agree more this time. Excellent piece.Ditto
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#37

Post by SueDB »

[/break1]nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/11/15086947-israel-joins-syria-conflict-fires-missile-across-border?lite]Israel decides to play with Syria again...JERUSALEM -- The Israeli military has fired a missile into Syria, the first time Israel has been drawn into the fighting in the neighboring country.The military said it fired the missile as a warning shot on Sunday after a stray mortar from Syria hit a military post in the Golan Heights. Israel captured the Golan from Syria in the 1967 Mideast war and subsequently annexed it.The military says no damage or injuries were reported inside Israel.A string of mortar shells have struck the Golan during the Syrian civil war. Israel views the fire as accidental, but nonetheless has warned that it holds Syria responsible....Will this widen the conflict????
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#38

Post by Chilidog »

Let's all face reality. Sooner or later Iran, North Korea, and East Beckybeckystan will have nukes, and theres not a damned thing we can do about it.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#39

Post by Plutodog »

Nah, East BeckyBeckystan, hasn't a prayer of becoming nookewlear. [-X
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#40

Post by SueDB »

[/break1]nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/15/15183459-region-on-the-precipice-israel-gaza-slide-closer-to-war-neither-side-wants?lite]They are all making WAR noises at the moment.





TEL AVIV, Israel - Israel has called up army reserves, the standing army is poised for a ground invasion of Gaza, the air force and navy is attacking a list of specified targets, mostly Hamas fighters and weapons facilities. All is set for war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.





The only sure thing, in this fog of war, is that nobody actually wants the war to take place -- not Israel, not Hamas.......split





Israel is resolved to end the Palestinian rocket attacks on its southern cities and communities -- 100 rockets fired in the five days before Israel's response and, at the time of writing, 150 since.





Israel's surprise attack Wednesday killed the man who has been on top of Israel's hit list for a decade, Hamas military commander Ahmed Jabari, accused of being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Israelis, as well as taking part in the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier who was held hostage in Gaza for five years.Let's warm up the Middle East Pepper Stew for a while.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#41

Post by esseff44 »

Interesting timing. Testing the unchained Obama who doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected. :-k
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#42

Post by poutine »

The people of Palestine have duly elected Hamas to be their voice. And Hamas has now fired no less than 750 rockets from Gaza into Israeli civilian areas in 2012 alone, according to the New York Times. 180 were fired since last Wednesday alone. A rocket on Thursday struck a suburb of Tel Aviv, traveling 30 miles to land in an open field. Addressing the Middle East crisis cannot be done without addressing the position taken by the Palestinian people, which is now indisputably reflected through their free will in parliamentary elections. They have endorsed Hamas, and Hamas endorses the killing of Israeli civilians within undisputed Israeli territory as a legitimate political tool. The Israeli people are surrounded by enemies who either struggle to recognize their nation's legitimacy or openly declare a desire to wipe them off the face of the planet. They are fighting for their lives, and cannot afford the luxury of showing signs of weakness in the hope that "cooler heads will prevail." This threatens to be a crisis of epic proportions, i.e., a war, that will be placed squarely in President Obama's lap. I hope he has a plan.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#43

Post by borealis »

Too bad we can't lock BiBi, Avigdor and the Palestinian leadership in a small closet together until they work out a solution. IT works for cats.I think we should refuse to send Israel any more financial aid until they hammer out something in writing with the Palestinians. Knowing how this regime treats ALL Palestinians the same horrible way whether they are Christians or Muslims, just says they are motivated by pure greed cloaked with this thin veil of religious persecution in order to win sympathy from the world's evangelicals. If the evangelicals truly understood Christians are also being rounded up, they would change their support in a hurry.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#44

Post by hitch »

The people of Palestine have duly elected Hamas to be their voice. And Hamas has now fired no less than 750 rockets from Gaza into Israeli civilian areas in 2012 alone, according to the New York Times. 180 were fired since last Wednesday alone. A rocket on Thursday struck a suburb of Tel Aviv, traveling 30 miles to land in an open field. Addressing the Middle East crisis cannot be done without addressing the position taken by the Palestinian people, which is now indisputably reflected through their free will in parliamentary elections. They have endorsed Hamas, and Hamas endorses the killing of Israeli civilians within undisputed Israeli territory as a legitimate political tool. The Israeli people are surrounded by enemies who either struggle to recognize their nation's legitimacy or openly declare a desire to wipe them off the face of the planet. They are fighting for their lives, and cannot afford the luxury of showing signs of weakness in the hope that "cooler heads will prevail." This threatens to be a crisis of epic proportions, i.e., a war, that will be placed squarely in President Obama's lap. I hope he has a plan.First, lets not forget that Israel itself elected terrorists into its own government -- who can forget Menachem Begin became prime minister not to mention him and many others served in various government elected and appointed positions for decades.Second, Palestinians rockets aren't really rockets in the sense of our or Israeli rockets. Third, people who are occupied have the right to fight their occupier.Fourth, people who live in the world largest open air prison have a right to fight their illegal imprisonment.Fifth, the damage the Palestinians have done in fighting their occupier is no where near the damage that Israel has done to them in any given month of the 45 years it has occupied the territories (forgetting how it got control of Israel proper).Sixth, when you oppress the hell out of people, take away their land, and imprison their future and control their present economics you have no right to complain how those people act.Seventh, contrary to popular belief, Israeli does not get a free pass in the Middle East because of what was done to the Jewish population in Europe.Eighth, Israel land stealing/Palestinians oppressing ways prevent the Palestinians from having any form of economic or physical security.Ninth, the New York Times is not the place to look for honest reporting on Israel.Tenth, we stopped being an honest broker with the Reagan administration as he pandered the right wing evangelicals who's world view demands Israel be made whole so they can have their armageddon.Eleventh, you can't possibly straighten out that mess with out first admitting that* the west shoved Israel into the middle east to assuage it's conscience, * the new Israeli then ethnically cleansed the land because it realized it had nothing to control if the Palestinians remained in the numbers it had and owned their land, * Israel continues to illegally seize land and ethnically cleanse it for it's citizens use, all the while practicing community punishment in the occupied territories as the Palestinians have less land to live on, less land to farm, less economic ability and a harder time just moving around their land or selling their produce.Finally, Israel protestations of their victim-hood, reminds me of an interview I heard of a South African white woman back in the early 1980's. She was whining how it was the whites who were really suffering. It was they who had to live behind gates. It was they who had to send their help home because they were afraid to keep them in their neighborhoods out of fear of what the help would do when the whites slept. It was they who had their movement restricted. She kept whining how the it was the blacks who were really oppressing the whites especially because the blacks forced the white minority to take steps to protects themselves, steps that the world viewed as horrible. When in reality the whites were just the victims trying to protect land and wealth they got legally.Israel surrounded by enemies? So what -- whatever they once were or might have been they are now just the bully on the block.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#45

Post by John Thomas8 »

whatever they once were or might have been they are now just the bully on the block.A nuclear-armed and violently reactionary bully.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#46

Post by poutine »

Second, Palestinians rockets aren't really rockets in the sense of our or Israeli rockets. Third, people who are occupied have the right to fight their occupier.I'm just going to focus on these 2 points to explain why I emphatically reject your entire argument. The Israel-Palestine conflict is complex and there are no purely innocent parties. But the Palestinian people have always had and still have a choice. It is the same choice faced by many peoples throughout history faced with injustice for one reason or another, such as blacks in South Africa, blacks in the USA, and India until its independence from Britain in 1947. And when faced with this choice, Palestinians have failed. Even as they complain about the pain inflicted on them by Israeli military measures, they gleefully murder children, housewives, grandparents and other civilians. Now, they have escalated their terrorist activities to the city of Tel Aviv. As long as Palestinians choose to utilize terrorism as their political tool of choice, they have no moral ground to stand on whatsoever. This is what separates them, morally and intellectually, from Gandhi, Mandela, and MLK, Jr. I fully expect the Israeli people to vigorously defend themselves with every military option available to them, and I support their right to do so.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#47

Post by Foggy »

A pox on both their houses. Neither wants peace. What Palestine needed is a Mahatma Ghandi ... but they've needed that since I was a small boy.
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Somebody Better Get a Grip On Israel

#49

Post by neonzx »

Trust me, John Thomas, we know. Our ancestors helped create this never-ending clusterfuck. I'm not a student of history on the conflict, but were there any dissenting voices in The West when the creation of Israel was being debated? It probably seemed like a great idea at the time (post-holocaust guilt?) but it doesn't appear as though it was thought through beyond a short-term "feels good". ](*,)
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#50

Post by John Thomas8 »

Trust me, John Thomas, we know. Our ancestors helped create this never-ending clusterfuck. I'm not a student of history on the conflict, but were there any dissenting voices in The West when the creation of Israel was being debated? It probably seemed like a great idea at the time (post-holocaust guilt?) but it doesn't appear as though it was thought through beyond a short-term "feels good". ](*,)The British did not have the fiscal wherewithal to deal with Palestine after WWII. When the Jews in the area started murdering British citizens, the Brits pulled out rather than try to deal with them. And nobody else moved in to fill the vacuum.
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