Bye bye wind, we want coal

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RTH10260
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Bye bye wind, we want coal

#1

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:58 pm

Wyoming Bill Would All But Outlaw Clean Energy by Preventing Utilities From Using It
Coal supporters are pushing a bill that would bar utilities from using the state's abundant wind power to provide electricity within the state.

BY ZAHRA HIRJI JAN 13, 2017

A new bill would outlaw utilities from providing power from large-scale wind farms like the Foote Creek Rim Wind Project. Credit: Getty Images
While many U.S. states have mandates and incentives to get more of their electricity from renewable energy, Republican legislators in Wyoming are proposing to cut the state off from its most abundant, clean resource—wind—and ensuring its continued dependence on coal.

A new measure submitted to the Wyoming legislature this week would forbid utilities from providing any electricity to the state that comes from large-scale wind or solar energy projects by 2019. It's an unprecedented attack on clean energy in Wyoming, and possibly the nation. And it comes at a time when such resources are becoming cheaper and increasingly in demand as the world seeks to transition to clean energy to prevent the worst impacts of climate change.

The bill's nine sponsors, two state senators and seven representatives, largely come from Wyoming's top coal-producing counties and include some deniers of man-made climate change. They filed the bill on Tuesday, the first day of the state's 2017 legislative session. Activists and energy experts are alarmed by the measure, which would levy steep fines on utilities that continue providing (or provide new) "non-eligible" clean energy for the state's electricity. But they are skeptical it will get enough support to become law.

"I haven't seen anything like this before," Shannon Anderson, director of the local organizing group Powder River Basin Resource Council, told InsideClimate News. "This is essentially a reverse renewable energy standard."
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/1201 ... nge-denial

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RVInit
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#2

Post by RVInit » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:57 pm

What in the hell is wrong with Republican politicians? So many of them seem just completely evil, hateful, and downright vile. This is beyond sickening.
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#3

Post by GreatGrey » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:01 am

I swear it's like Stewie & Brian went back into the past and altered the timeline.

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#4

Post by SueDB » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:01 am

RVInit wrote:What in the hell is wrong with Republican politicians? So many of them seem just completely evil, hateful, and downright vile. This is beyond sickening.
It's like part of the country has gone stark raving mad. Madder than Hatters on Mercury.
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#5

Post by maydijo » Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:07 am

RVInit wrote:What in the hell is wrong with Republican politicians? So many of them seem just completely evil, hateful, and downright vile. This is beyond sickening.
It's like they're the bad guy in a Scooby doo episode, they're just cartoonishly bad for no reason at all.

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#6

Post by vic » Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:28 am

RVInit wrote:What in the hell is wrong with Republican politicians? So many of them seem just completely evil, hateful, and downright vile. This is beyond sickening.
When Republicans say that they are for "small government", what they really mean is "small-minded government".

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#7

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:44 am

vic wrote:
RVInit wrote:What in the hell is wrong with Republican politicians? So many of them seem just completely evil, hateful, and downright vile. This is beyond sickening.
When Republicans say that they are for "small government", what they really mean is "small-minded government".
And for people who despise politicians in the "swamp" regulating people lives, there seem to be plenty of Republicanswho want to get into state and federal government, wallow in the mud, and bully decent folk.

Not all Republicans are evil, but plenty are, and too many of their supporters and voters don't have the courage and decency to say "these guys are assholes who not only do not deserve my vote but also require me to vote against them". Trump tapped that "f&$#% you" vein.

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#8

Post by Northland10 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:54 am

vic wrote:
RVInit wrote:What in the hell is wrong with Republican politicians? So many of them seem just completely evil, hateful, and downright vile. This is beyond sickening.
When Republicans say that they are for "small government", what they really mean is "small-minded government".
What they really mean is a large campaign contribution government. Most of them are smart enough to have their own ideas, so they gladly do the binding of whatever the large companies want.
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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#9

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:01 am

Northland10 wrote: :snippity:
What they really mean is a large campaign contribution government. Most of them are smart enough to have their own ideas, so they gladly do the binding of whatever the large companies want.
I guess some might be doing the calculation that there are enough sane legislators that the measure will not pass but if they promote it they can mine that rich vein of contribution gold.

And if it were to pass and go sour ... hey, they're Republicans, it's the Democrats' fault!

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#10

Post by Chilidog » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:55 am

Being from the Midwest, I do admit that I have some mixed feelings about large scale wind farms, if only from an esthetic point of view. I could actually sympathize if that was the issue.

It's not, of course, so fuck them.

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#11

Post by Chilidog » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:00 am

would forbid utilities from providing any electricity to the state that comes from large-scale wind or solar energy projects by 2019
Given that distribution grids cross state lines, and that electrons don't come with name tags identifying where they came from, how are they going to do that?

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#12

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:15 am

That doesn't even make sense. Doesn't the FERC require an electric company to maintain a mandatory level of energy? Doesn't that energy usually come from several sources along the grid? Wouldn't the only way to enforce no-wind-power be to force the utility companies to build enough power plants to be self-sustaining without ever having to purchase energy from "other utilities, power marketers, and independent power producers or from a wholesale market organized by a regional transmission reliability organization"?

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#13

Post by Azastan » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:21 am

Chilidog wrote:
would forbid utilities from providing any electricity to the state that comes from large-scale wind or solar energy projects by 2019
Given that distribution grids cross state lines, and that electrons don't come with name tags identifying where they came from, how are they going to do that?
More to the point, Wyoming is a net EXPORTER, rather than importer, of electricity.

So what, exactly, is the point of this? The US Energy Information Administrations says that almost 11% of Wyoming's energy came from renewable energy resources, primarily wind.

Who are these people trying to hurt and cow into submission?
Sugar Magnolia wrote:That doesn't even make sense. Doesn't the FERC require an electric company to maintain a mandatory level of energy? Doesn't that energy usually come from several sources along the grid? Wouldn't the only way to enforce no-wind-power be to force the utility companies to build enough power plants to be self-sustaining without ever having to purchase energy from "other utilities, power marketers, and independent power producers or from a wholesale market organized by a regional transmission reliability organization"?
The bill is to prevent the power generated from being used WITHIN Wyoming, so this bill wouldn't disallow wind farms, but would make it mandatory that the power generated be sent out of state (at least that's my reading of the bill).

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#14

Post by Maybenaut » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:09 am

Most states impose a Renewable Energy Standard (sometimes called a Renewable Energy Portfolio) and provide incentives to companies that can meet that standard. We have solar on our house, and in addition to the free electricity (we don't generate enough to sell back the excess), we can sell our "renewable energy credits" on the open market. We don't have to do anything but deposit the check every year ($800-$1200) - the company that installed the system manages that for us.

I imagine there's a market, both for Wyoming-generated green power, and the renewable energy credits.

Here's an article discussing Renewable Energy Standards, and a map showing the breakdown by state (Virginia, for example, has a "goal" of 15% by 2027. http://www.seia.org/policy/renewable-en ... -standards
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#15

Post by Northland10 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:29 pm

Chilidog wrote:Being from the Midwest, I do admit that I have some mixed feelings about large scale wind farms, if only from an esthetic point of view. I could actually sympathize if that was the issue.

It's not, of course, so fuck them.
Been driving on I-39 near Rochelle?
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Chilidog
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#16

Post by Chilidog » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:46 pm

Anywhere in the state.

The wide open horizons of the prairies are gone.

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RTH10260
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#17

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:40 pm

Chilidog wrote:Anywhere in the state.

The wide open horizons of the prairies are gone.
Obviously a new meaning to "gone with the wind" :think:

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#18

Post by Dallasite » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:51 pm

The wind farms I've seen while driving through west Texas look pretty cool. And they have such a small footprint they hardly disrupt the farmland in which they are bring erected.
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#19

Post by GreatGrey » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:53 pm

Yeah, cuz this is preferable to a windmill.

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Pink Floyd fans may recognize that power station. Battersea.
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#20

Post by ZekeB » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:17 pm

Northland10 wrote:
Chilidog wrote:Being from the Midwest, I do admit that I have some mixed feelings about large scale wind farms, if only from an esthetic point of view. I could actually sympathize if that was the issue.

It's not, of course, so fuck them.
Been driving on I-39 near Rochelle?
Come on over to my neck of the woods. I'll show you a wind farm of several thousand acres that goes on for miles and miles.
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#21

Post by Chilidog » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:19 pm

How come half of them aren't moving?

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#22

Post by GreatGrey » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:25 pm

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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#23

Post by RoadScholar » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:00 pm

How do they manage to elect representatives with a room-temperature IQ? :think:
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#24

Post by ZekeB » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:04 pm

RoadScholar wrote:How do they manage to elect representatives with a room-temperature IQ? :think:
To a large degree the people who elect these representatives have room-temperature IQs.
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Re: Bye bye wind, we want coal

#25

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:11 pm

ZekeB wrote:
RoadScholar wrote:How do they manage to elect representatives with a room-temperature IQ? :think:
To a large degree the people who elect these representatives have room-temperature IQs.
:fingerwag: Hey! It's unAmerican to use the Celsius scale! :-D

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