Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

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Orlylicious
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Orlylicious » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:06 am

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Addie
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Addie » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:12 am

Where are you getting this rumor from, Deja?
DejaMoo wrote:
And now an insider is claiming:

Tuesday.

Supposedly, that's why Trump pardoned Arpaio now -- because he's almost done. Supposedly, that's why he's gone on the attack against Republican politicians.
¡Qué vergüenza!

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Addie
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Addie » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:24 am

Hey, Bob, what do you think of this argument for impeachment? Anything to it? Thanks.
Bloomberg - Noah Feldman : Arpaio Pardon Would Show Contempt for Constitution

And there would be only one remedy for Trump's disrespect: impeachment. ...

When a sheriff ignores the courts, he becomes a law unto himself. The courts’ only available recourse is to sanction the sheriff. If the president blocks the courts from making the sheriff follow the law, then the president is breaking the basic structure of the legal order.

From this analysis it follows directly that pardoning Arpaio would be a wrongful act under the Constitution. There would be no immediate constitutional crisis because, legally speaking, Trump has the power to issue the pardon.

But the pardon would trigger a different sort of crisis: a crisis in enforcement of the rule of law.

The Constitution isn’t perfect. It offers only one remedy for a president who abuses the pardon power to break the system itself. That remedy is impeachment.

James Madison noted at the Virginia ratifying convention that abuse of the pardon power could be grounds for impeachment. He was correct then -- and it’s still true now.

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by pipistrelle » Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:51 am

P.K. wrote:
RVInit wrote:
Off Topic
He's probably at Camp David because the Secret Service told him they don't have the money for him to go to one of his properties. I'm guessing that is why he went to Camp David the last time, too.
Off Topic
Wait - didn't he just have a vacation? Why is he at Camp David, the presidential vacation spot?
Off Topic
Is Trump at Bedminster? is reporting he is at Bedminster. Wonder if he'll manage to get to Houston or Corpus Christi.

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Sam the Centipede » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:28 am

So lawyers, what's the situation now, assuming Arpaio has accepted or will accept the pardon? I bet not many of you have much experience with successful pardons, do you?

As I understand it, the pardon means Arpaio accepts the conviction but escapes the sentence. And as he has accepted the conviction, he can't appeal it.

The pardon includes words designed to prevent it being sidestepped (that's my interpretation of it, but IANAL). But it doesn't pardon anyone else. Arpaio is in no danger of double jeopardy on these issues, so he can be forced to testify, can't he? Although I guess he could plead the fifth by saying he is open to self-incrimination on those of his crimes which are not covered by the pardon.

Will the court sentence Arpaio anyway, even though he has been pardoned?

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Volkonski » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:34 am

Skip Intro wrote:And he's pardoned!

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:madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy: :madguy:
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by TexasFilly » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:01 am

Although this did not surprise me, I had that same feeling in the pit of my stomach that I had on the night of the election. I am very concerned about the future of our country, while watching to see if my home is destroyed.
I love the poorly educated!!!

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by bob » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:09 am

Addie wrote:Hey, Bob, what do you think of this argument for impeachment?
Wishful thinking: this Congress isn't going to impeach. Ditto with the suggestion that the pardon could somehow be contested.

I don't think it'll have much effect politically, as most people's opinions about Arpaio and the president are already fairly "baked in": by now people either love or loathe this pair, and this won't change many minds.


As for what's next, it is a bit of uncharted territory. But it is effectively over. There will be no further prosecution of Arpaio; he won't be compelled to testify because there are no further proceedings requiring his testimony.

I expect Arpaio will move to dismiss the charges based on the pardon. I further expect the court will deny that motion (as well as Arpaio's other motions).

Then the court will either to decline to sentence Arpaio, or will impose a symbolic sentence but make no order to enforce it. Either way, it'll close out the case.

Arpaio may nonetheless try to appeal ("to clear his name"). Leaving the 9th to determine whether there's even anything to appeal.
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Addie » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:15 am

Got it, Bob. Thanks very much.
¡Qué vergüenza!

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Reality Check
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Reality Check » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:16 am

The lady guest is especially eloquent:

"“If you’re not outraged, you’re not paying attention.”

Heather Heyer, November 2016

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Foggy » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:23 am

bob wrote:
Addie wrote:Hey, Bob, what do you think of this argument for impeachment?
Wishful thinking: this Congress isn't going to impeach.
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Kendra » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:57 am

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... f-worse-to

It's not letting me grab any text. Former ethics director blasts trump. Bigly.

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Fortinbras
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Fortinbras » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:34 pm

Note: The President can pardon/commute only from FEDERAL crimes, NOT STATE crimes. If Arpaio (or anyone else) were prosecuted/convicted in a state court under a state criminal law, the President could not pardon him - only the Governor or the State agency authorized to issued pardons.

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Fortinbras » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:37 pm

The Arpaio pardon has two (at least) purposes and effects:
(1) a signal to those Trump Chumps that there would be protection/reward for non-cooperation with Mueller or a Congressional investigation.
(2) a shout-out to racists, who were rather solidly in Arpaio's corner.

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Kendra » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:43 pm

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... venge.html

I just love a scathing opinion piece.
Trump’s Revenge

The president’s pardon of Joe Arpaio is revolting for many reasons. Most disgusting of all is that he did it to torment anyone who doesn’t support him.

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Kendra
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Kendra » Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:16 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... e5c3090238
The year I spent in Joe Arpaio’s tent jail was hell. He should never walk free.

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by GreatGrey » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:04 pm

So it turns out the Orange ShitGibbon tried to get the Keebler Elf to drop the case.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 4cf68517c5
I am not "someone upthread".
Trump needs to be smashed into some kind of inedible orange pâté.

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Kendra
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Kendra » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:12 pm

GreatGrey wrote:So it turns out the Orange ShitGibbon tried to get the Keebler Elf to drop the case.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 4cf68517c5
You are too quick for me, I hadn't finished the article yet.

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Lani » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:32 pm

It's A Slap For Latinos - And Everyone Else
The vast majority of Latinos in Arizona are not undocumented, yet they all fell under heightened scrutiny as Arpaio honed his image.

The pardon was a slap to those who worked through the judicial system to make Arpaio accountable, too. It robbed the people hurt by his policies of justice – even before a judge could mete out a sentence.

The pardon was a sign of pure contempt for every American who believes in justice, human dignity and the rule of law.
:snippity:
By pardoning Arpaio, Trump made it clear that institutional racism is not just OK with him. It is a goal.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/ ... 604067001/
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Orlylicious
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Orlylicious » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:44 pm

Phil Rucker is tweeting a lot about it, last month Orly was bothering him.

https://twitter.com/PhilipRucker

Ryan spox @DougAndres on Arpaio pardon: "The speaker does not agree with this decision."

Image
Philip Rucker‏Verified account @PhilipRucker 44m
Trump's known Arpaio for five years. Sent him fan letter for birther investigation & sees him as law-and-order icon

Philip Rucker‏Verified account @PhilipRucker 45m45 minutes ago
Arpaio’s lawyer makes light of birtherism, says when shown Trump’s pardon Joe asked, “Is this a fake document?”

Philip Rucker‏Verified account @PhilipRucker 49m49 minutes ago
Here’s Trump’s pardon of Arpaio — a single page, signed in thick black script, complete with golden DOJ seal

Philip Rucker‏Verified account @PhilipRucker 51m51 minutes ago
Arpaio told me he never asked for a pardon, though his lawyer sent McGahn a letter Fri morning urging swift pardon
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by SuzieC » Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:54 pm

Well, that's it. The birthers won.

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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Gregg » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:48 pm

bob wrote:
Addie wrote:Hey, Bob, what do you think of this argument for impeachment?
Wishful thinking: this Congress isn't going to impeach. Ditto with the suggestion that the pardon could somehow be contested.

I don't think it'll have much effect politically, as most people's opinions about Arpaio and the president are already fairly "baked in": by now people either love or loathe this pair, and this won't change many minds.


As for what's next, it is a bit of uncharted territory. But it is effectively over. There will be no further prosecution of Arpaio; he won't be compelled to testify because there are no further proceedings requiring his testimony.

I expect Arpaio will move to dismiss the charges based on the pardon. I further expect the court will deny that motion (as well as Arpaio's other motions).

Then the court will either to decline to sentence Arpaio, or will impose a symbolic sentence but make no order to enforce it. Either way, it'll close out the case.

Arpaio may nonetheless try to appeal ("to clear his name"). Leaving the 9th to determine whether there's even anything to appeal.
I'm not sure how much sense it makes to move to dismiss the conviction based on the pardon. I was under the impression that acceptance of a pardon was an admission of the underlying crime. I guess he can make the motion, but I would hope it will be tossed and I would even hope the order to dismiss such a motion include wording to the effect that "you were convicted and by accepting a pardon you conceded that conviction". Its as close as we're gonna get to any contrition, a court saying something like that.
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Dr. Caligari » Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:37 pm

I'm not sure how much sense it makes to move to dismiss the conviction based on the pardon. I was under the impression that acceptance of a pardon was an admission of the underlying crime. I guess he can make the motion, but I would hope it will be tossed and I would even hope the order to dismiss such a motion include wording to the effect that "you were convicted and by accepting a pardon you conceded that conviction". Its as close as we're gonna get to any contrition, a court saying something like that.
I've never researched the law in this area, but I suspect that the pardon does have the effect of dismissing the pending case.
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by Gregg » Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:20 am

Its been almost 30 years ago but I did quite a lot of reading about Watergate including a very good book about the early Ford Administration. In that book, considerable attention was paid to the legal issues surrounding Nixon's pardon including the White House Counsel's Office negotiations with Nixon's lawyers and the acceptance of the Pardon. Ford was unwilling to issue the pardon until he was both assured that it implied the admission of guilt of some crime, and importantly, that Nixon agree, if only privately, that it was an admission of guilt. Interesting story, I wish I could remember which book it was in. The premise of the story is also wrapped up in the secret (to Ford's staff) backdealing between Nixon's people in San Clemente and Alexander Haig who stayed on as Ford's first Chief of Staff. Haig comes off as the serious villian. A somewhat collaborating version of the same story is part of the last section of "Silent Coup" which is kind of conspiracy theory but does have a lot of good primary sources, and at least Gordon Liddy claimed was the book that best explained Watergate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Coup

Obviously, Wiki didn't like the book, nor did The New York Times or Washington Post, and it is a wild core theory, but if you can disregard the spooky melodramatic premise, their are a lot of facts in the book that are not told anywhere else I know of, including material from a lot of people who had nothing to lose as they had already served sentences for any crimes. My own opinion is it could have been accurately credited as coauthored by Liddy, and the lawsuits over it all sued him, more than the actual authors and publisher. I liked it.
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Re: Arpaio (et al.) criminal contempt case

Post by RVInit » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:53 am

This is a great Twitter thread from @PhoenixNewTimes which covered Arpaio over the years. It's a treasure trove of stories about the vile things this man did during his reign of terror.

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