Gun Control issues

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Re: Gun Control issues

#176

Post by GreatGrey » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:08 pm

I am not "someone upthread".
Trump needs to be smashed into some kind of inedible orange pâté.

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Re: Gun Control issues

#177

Post by Foggy » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:48 pm

GOOD.

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Re: Gun Control issues

#178

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:04 pm

:like:
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Re: Gun Control issues

#179

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:57 am

http://amp.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... 23435.html
NRA’s spending is way down in the 2018 midterms. Does it have ‘a popularity problem?’

The National Rifle Association’s political spending is sharply down heading into the 2018 midterm elections, a shift that could reflect declining fundraising in the wake of a string of mass shootings and an FBI investigation into the group’s Russia ties.

That decline comes as the FBI investigates whether the group illegally received money from Russia to fuel its support of President Donald Trump during the 2016 election and as the group has seen a decline in dues that has deepened the group’s operating deficit.

And it comes in a year when more than half the states in the country have passed gun safety measures in the wake of protests following the February 14, 2018 shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, which left 17 students dead, and other deadly shootings before it. Monday marked the one-year anniversary of the nation’s worst mass shooting, in which 58 people died and several hundred were injured on the Las Vegas Strip.

“I think in a lot of places they have a popularity problem,” said Jennifer Duffy, senior editor of The Cook Political Report. She said the shootings and the Russia inquiry could both be taking its toll.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#180

Post by Addie » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:13 pm

USA Today
Trump signs bill reversing Obama rule to ban gun purchases by mentally ill

WASHINGTON — President Trump killed a regulation that would have tightened gun background checks Tuesday, signing a bill to undo one of his predecessor's executive actions following the San Bernardino shootings in 2015.

The Obama administration rule required the Social Security Administration to submit records of mentally disabled people to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, the FBI database used to determine whether someone can buy a firearm under the 1993 Brady Bill.

The rule would have applied to about 75,000 people who were “adjudicated as a mental defective" and who had applied for Social Security benefits, and had a mechanism to notify those affected so they could appeal. But congressional Republicans said the rule could ensnare people who had mental health issues but otherwise were competent to own a gun.

The Social Security Administration finalized the rule last Dec. 19. But under the Congressional Review Act, Congress has 60 legislative days to disapprove of any new regulation on straight majority votes. The vote was 57-43 in the Senate and 235-180 in the House. ...

The bill signing fulfills a campaign promise for Trump. Even before Obama announced his executive actions before his State of the Union Address last year, Trump said he would "un-sign that so fast" once he becomes president.

Trump signed the bill without a public ceremony Tuesday, the last day to sign it into law under the constitution's 10-day requirement.

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Re: Gun Control issues

#181

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:25 pm

Sorry, but in what world is being mentally ill a crime?

There has to be a better way to determine firearm ownership potential than putting mental patients on a list of criminals.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#182

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:42 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:25 pm
Sorry, but in what world is being mentally ill a crime?

There has to be a better way to determine firearm ownership potential than putting mental patients on a list of criminals.
It's a federal crime to sell a gun to someone who you know or have reason to believe "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution." 18 USC §922 (d) (4).

All that regulation would have done is added people who meet that definition to the background check database. In other words, what the Republicans have done is voted to keep gun dealers from having the knowledge needed to keep people who are already barred by existing law from purchasing guns.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#183

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:25 pm

Two problems - the way the regulation was written you could be barred from buying a firearm simply because you weren't able to handle your own financial/social security issues without the help of some third party or your condition limited your ability to work in some way.

Neither of those should stop someone from being able to acquire a firearm to defend themselves.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#184

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:45 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:25 pm
Two problems - the way the regulation was written you could be barred from buying a firearm simply because you weren't able to handle your own financial/social security issues without the help of some third party or your condition limited your ability to work in some way.

Neither of those should stop someone from being able to acquire a firearm to defend themselves.
Yeah, that's bullshit.

Here's the actual reg:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... %89421.110

The way the regulation was written, in order to be reported to the database, you needed to BOTH be on disability due to mental health issues and have been found to also be unable to handle your own financial affairs.

So, no, it wasn't "limited your ability to work in some way," it was "made you completely unable to work at all" (which is the requirement for receiving Social Security Disability) AND ALSO leave you unable to handle your own affairs to such an extent that you were found to need to have the benefits paid to someone else because you couldn't handle it - not just need some help. (By the way, that's an adjudication of mental defect.) And it specifically did not cover those on Social Security who were of retirement age - it applied only to SSDI, not to regular Social Security.

Oh, and the regulation contained a requirement that anyone affected be given notice and an opportunity to appeal.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#185

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:04 am

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:25 pm
Two problems - the way the regulation was written you could be barred from buying a firearm simply because you weren't able to handle your own financial/social security issues without the help of some third party or your condition limited your ability to work in some way.

Neither of those should stop someone from being able to acquire a firearm to defend themselves.
Wouldn't such a mental condition prevent someone to follow gun instructions and handle firearms in a competent and safe manner?

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Re: Gun Control issues

#186

Post by neeneko » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:13 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:04 am
Wouldn't such a mental condition prevent someone to follow gun instructions and handle firearms in a competent and safe manner?
Eh, I would not describe it as a very good test. Social security can be complicated, and all sorts of things could result in someone needing a 3rd party to handle the technical details for them. Handling a gun is a completely different set of skills that may or may not be impacted by whatever is making all the bureaucratic stuff difficult.

There is always a temptation to use some easy, already gathered metric in ways it was never intended to be used in order to not do any new work but get some arbitrary number down. It is rarely a good idea, esp when it might result in people avoiding the original service because now its usage is tied to new restrictions unrelated to the problems the service is intended to solve.

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Re: Gun Control issues

#187

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:43 am

Again, to make it onto this list, a person (or someone with the legal ability to make decisions on their behalf) would have to:
1. Be older than 18 but younger than retirement age.
2. Have applied for SSDI, with a primary diagnosis that meets the definitions for a mental illness or cognitive impairment.
3. Have been approved to receive SSDI.

Let's break there for a second and review. These are people who have come forward and declared - under penalty of perjury - that they are either so mentally ill or so cognitively impaired that they are unemployable. These claims have been investigated and found to be valid - meaning that they have very strong medical support.

In my view, if your mental illness or cognitive defects are so severe that you can't hold down even half-time employment, then it's really fucking likely that you shouldn't be handling deadly weapons. The idea that this is a controversial position boggles my mind. How is someone who is unable to cognitively function at the minimal levels needed to get a job in any way, shape, or form someone who is going to be a productive part of a well-regulated militia?

But even those already-narrow criteria were insufficient to qualify someone for inclusion on the no-guns list under the Regulation that the Party of Personal Irresponsibility just killed. Nope. The person also had to:

4: Be formally found to be unable to manage their own finances to such an extent that their benefits have to be paid into an account under someone else's control.

That's not "needs help to manage bureaucratic stuff." That's so damn incompetent that they can't handle their own money.

So, again, this is adding people to the background check list who are too incompetent, as a result of cognitive disabilities or mental illness, that they are unable to independently function. These are people who are working-age adults who cannot work and cannot handle their own money. Who the fuck thinks that these are people who should be allowed to purchase deadly weapons??

More to the point, these are people who are already forbidden to buy guns. Under regulations that are still in effect, the formal finding that someone is unable to manage their own funds is an adjudication of mental defect. And it's already a federal crime to knowingly sell a gun to someone who has been adjudicated as a mental defective. Literally the only thing this regulation would have done is add people to the background check list who are already barred by law from buying guns.

But, nope. Even making the background check database marginally more effective is a step to tranny for the ammosexuals. Can't threaten the rights of mentally ill people to buy guns, even though mentally ill people aren't allowed to buy guns, and every time someone with mental illness runs up a double-digit body count with the gun they bought we're told - by the same damn ammosexuals - that the problem is the mental illness, not the guns.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#188

Post by pipistrelle » Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:46 am

Mikedunford wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:43 am
In my view, if your mental illness or cognitive defects are so severe that you can't hold down even half-time employment, then it's really fucking likely that you shouldn't be handling deadly weapons. The idea that this is a controversial position boggles my mind. How is someone who is unable to cognitively function at the minimal levels needed to get a job in any way, shape, or form someone who is going to be a productive part of a well-regulated militia?

But even those already-narrow criteria were insufficient to qualify someone for inclusion on the no-guns list under the Regulation that the Party of Personal Irresponsibility just killed. Nope. The person also had to:

4: Be formally found to be unable to manage their own finances to such an extent that their benefits have to be paid into an account under someone else's control.

That's not "needs help to manage bureaucratic stuff." That's so damn incompetent that they can't handle their own money.
Or competent enough to make decisions about when to use a firearm.

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Re: Gun Control issues

#189

Post by Fortinbras » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:05 am

It's clear that thoughts and prayers are inadequate for the problem.

Just this week people were shot, and several killed, while deep in thought and engaged in prayer.

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Re: Gun Control issues

#190

Post by Whatever4 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:58 pm

pipistrelle wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:46 am
Mikedunford wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:43 am
In my view, if your mental illness or cognitive defects are so severe that you can't hold down even half-time employment, then it's really fucking likely that you shouldn't be handling deadly weapons. The idea that this is a controversial position boggles my mind. How is someone who is unable to cognitively function at the minimal levels needed to get a job in any way, shape, or form someone who is going to be a productive part of a well-regulated militia?

But even those already-narrow criteria were insufficient to qualify someone for inclusion on the no-guns list under the Regulation that the Party of Personal Irresponsibility just killed. Nope. The person also had to:

4: Be formally found to be unable to manage their own finances to such an extent that their benefits have to be paid into an account under someone else's control.

That's not "needs help to manage bureaucratic stuff." That's so damn incompetent that they can't handle their own money.
Or competent enough to make decisions about when to use a firearm.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#191

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:41 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/13/us/n ... ctors.html

I saw this today. It is worth posting here.

Doctors Revolt After N.R.A. Tells Them to ‘Stay in Their Lane’ on Gun Policy
Over 25 years in Bronx hospitals, Dr. Marianne Haughey has lost count of how many people she has seen die from gun violence. It doesn’t stop — a child who found a gun at home, a teenager caught in the middle of a gang shooting, a store owner ambushed at work.
The toughest part comes afterward, Dr. Haughey said. She sheds her blood-soaked scrubs, makes a mental note of the victim’s name and goes to tell the family.
“It’s impossible not to bring it home,” said Dr. Haughey, an emergency physician and the director of St. Barnabas Hospital’s emergency medicine residency program. “I never get used to it. It’s tiresome.”
Those experiences fueled angry responses from her and other doctors in recent days to a tweet from the National Rifle Association aimed at their profession: “Someone should tell self-important anti-gun doctors to stay in their lane.”

When Dr. Haughey saw it, she tapped out a reply on her cellphone. “I see no one from the @nra next to me in the trauma bay as I have cared for victims of gun violence for the past 25 years,” she wrote. “THAT must be MY lane. COME INTO MY LANE. Tell one mother her child is dead with me, then we can talk.”

:snippity:

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Re: Gun Control issues

#192

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:48 pm

I've been watching this on Twitter. One doctor posted a picture of her bloody shoes after a gunshot victim surgery. So glad the NRA has decided to take on the other frontline of gun violence- doctors. The NRA is gradually imploding.
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Re: Gun Control issues

#193

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:20 pm

Proposed law would let State search gun owner's social media and internet history

(CBS NY) - A new act introduced in the New York State Assembly this month would require pistol owners to submit to a "social media review."

Anyone applying for, or renewing a pistol permit would have to give up all login information, including passwords, for any social media sites they're a part of.

Posts from the past three years on site like Facebook, Twitter and Snapchat would be reviewed for language containing slurs, racial/gender bias, threats and terrorism.

One year of search history on Google/Yahoo/Bing would also be reviewed.




https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/loc ... 1610876946

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Re: Gun Control issues

#194

Post by Addie » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:44 am

TIME: Fewer American Kids Die in States With Tougher Gun Laws, According to This New Study

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Re: Gun Control issues

#195

Post by Volkonski » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:58 am

Teachers banned from carrying guns at schools in New York

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arming-tea ... rew-cuomo/
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has signed a bill into law that bans teachers from carrying guns on school grounds. The move comes a year after President Donald Trump suggested the idea of arming school staff with guns.

The bill signed Wednesday prevents school districts from arming staff who are not school resource officers, law enforcement officers or security guards. "The answer to the gun violence epidemic plaguing this country has never been and never will be more guns, and today we're expanding New York's nation-leading gun safety laws to further protect our children," Cuomo said.

Cuomo also wants state police to establish regulations to bolster existing gun buyback programs and create new ones for removing "illegal, unsecured, abandoned or unwanted firearms."
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Re: Gun Control issues

#196

Post by Orlylicious » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:56 pm

Roundup from Axios (where Margaret Talev now works, she left Bloomberg and head of the WHCA).
Orion Rummler updated 5 hours ago
Where 2020 Democrats stand on gun control

The big picture: 2020 Democrats have a bigger stake in gun control than they did in 2016, when Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton only briefly addressed the issue in their primary debate. The pair of mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton in August, which prompted a renewed national conversation about gun control, caused the pressure on the issue to rise.

Policy standouts

Sen. Elizabeth Warren: Wants to reduce the number of U.S. gun deaths by 80%, noting 39,773 died in 2017 alone. Her plan includes appointing an attorney general to investigate the NRA's business practices and making it harder to export guns from the U.S. Warren would also try to pass a federal assault weapons ban. Her plan wraps gun control into her broader anti-corruption package and includes identifying white nationalism as a form of domestic terrorism, in reference to the alleged shooter in El Paso.

Sen. Kamala Harris: If Congress doesn't pass gun reform within 100 days of her potential inauguration, Harris says she would take executive action to institute background checks, require the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to revoke the licenses of gun dealers "who violate the law," and ban the importation of assault weapons.

Former tech executive Andrew Yang: Wants to require a federal background check and federal buyback program, eliminate the gun show loophole, ban high-capacity magazines and prohibit the manufacture and sale of bump stocks, suppressors, incendiary/exploding ammunition and grenade launcher attachments. Yang references smart guns in his policy and says he plans to "invest in innovative technology that would make firearms harder to fire for non-owners of the gun." Those who currently own firearms under Yang's plan would be grandfathered in with their existing licenses and receive one-time “Good Gun Owner” tax credits for adhering to additional requirements.

Sen. Cory Booker: Proposed a 14-part plan in May calling for a national gun licensing program, which would force Americans to apply for 5-year gun licenses and ban assault weapons, high-capacity magazines and bump stocks.

Former Vice President Joe Biden: Believes only "smart guns" should be sold, or guns that require "a biometric measure" to pull the trigger. He stressed that "our enemy is the gun manufacturers, not the NRA," at the first Democratic debate, and he expressed support for government buybacks.

Mayor Pete Buttigieg: Wants to spend $1 billion to help law enforcement combat white nationalism and "respond to domestic terrorist attacks before they occur," in reference to recent mass shootings. His plan would ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, institute universal background checks and a national gun licensing system, and fund gun violence research at the federal level. The National Counterterrorism Center would arrest white supremacist suspects internationally under his plan. Online platforms like 8chan would also be monitored by law enforcement.

Former Rep. Beto O'Rourke: O'Rourke wants to create a nationwide gun licensing system that will ensure anybody who wants to purchase a gun goes through an assessment by law enforcement. Guns will also be registered, and all new handguns will be microstamped. He also supports a ban and buyback program for assault weapons, as well as universal background checks.

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand: Has said she's well-equipped to talk to gun owners about the need for gun control because she once held an A-rating with the NRA. "If I want to protect my family, if I want to have a weapon in the home, that should be my right," she said in 2009. She said in 2018 she is "embarrassed" by her previous views on gun rights.

Author Marianne Williamson: Wants to ban assault rifles, semi-automatic weapons, bump stocks and high capacity magazines, require universal background checks and mandatory waiting periods for all gun dealers, reinstate "restrictions on the ability of the mentally ill to purchase a gun," and remove "limits on the Center for Disease Control’s (CDC) ability to track and record gun ownership numbers." Reality check: A spending bill signed by President Trump in 2018 gave the CDC the authority to study the causes of gun violence — but "researchers who study gun violence are unimpressed," NPR reports.

Rep. Tim Ryan: On debate night, he linked the question of gun control to mental illness, saying: “73% of [school shooters] feel shamed, traumatized or bullied." He called for mental health professionals to be installed in every school in the country.

Standard fare

Sen. Bernie Sanders: Wants to ban the sale and distribution of assault weapons, institute universal background checks and end the gun show loophole. He says he has a D- voting record from the NRA.

Sen. Amy Klobuchar: Wants to implement universal background checks, close gun show loopholes and ban assault weapons, bump stocks and high-capacity magazines.

Former HUD Secretary Julián Castro: Supports universal background checks, banning assault weapons and limiting magazine capacity.

Washington Gov. Jay Inslee: Voted in favor of federal legislation that banned the manufacture, sale and possession of combat-style assault weapons in 1994 — which probably cost him his House seat in 1995, CNBC reports. He supports banning bump stocks and stronger background checks.

Rep. Tulsi Gabbard: Supports a federal ban on "military-style assault weapons and high capacity magazines," stronger background checks and ending the gun show loophole.
https://www.axios.com/where-2020-democr ... cc371.html

The 2016 campaign was virtually issue-free, remember that? That was Donald's doing, always with another shiny object. He's running the exact same playbook. So I don't know if we need to get this granular... let's win.
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