Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

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Princess foofypants
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Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

#1251

Post by Princess foofypants » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:41 pm

Try the last two paragraphs.Thank you. I read them. Do you think he uses his red administrator messaging because he's just joking around?What [link]he wrote yesterday,http://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 00#p529094[/link] that I thought was a joke wasn't in administrator red.I would hope that we would treat each other decently without someone having to write it in red, bold it etc.

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Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

#1252

Post by ducktape » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:16 pm

I would hope that we would treat each other decently without someone having to write it in red, bold it etc.I believe Ducktape's point was Foggy's post that I thought was a joke was written in administrator red which should have informed me it wasn't a joke. Ducktape was either mistaken or it wasn't clear to her which post of Foggy's I thought was a joke.No. My point was that when someone tells you clearly and forcefully to stop and you keep on with the behavior with the excuse that "I didn't think they meant it," that is called bullying.





The fact that he had to go to red is just an indication -- and frankly, I still don't think you get it

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Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

#1253

Post by esseff44 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:18 pm

Although there are many differences in the two cases, I keep thinking of Lee Harvey Oswald and his defection to the Soviet Union in 1959. He was a marine. He claimed to be a communist and he tried to adapt to the Russian culture. He became bored and disillusioned. In some ways, he was more royalist than the king. I see Snowden as someone enthralled by libertarianism in its radical form in much the same way Oswald was enthralled by communist ideology but with little understanding of how far reality is separated from an unattainable ideal. If he stays in Russia, I expect him to become bored and frustrated if he's there long enough for the adrenalin rush to wear off.I have spent time in several countries that were under Soviet/ Red China influence for a time and two that had been under both US and Soviet/ Red China influence and different times. There was no comparison as to the attitude of the locals as to the two masters. They hated being under the control of both of them but were far more forgiving of the intentions of the people as opposed to the government of one of them. I will let you guess which one they had less nostalgia for and why. :-k

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#1254

Post by A Legal Lohengrin » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:16 pm

But it's clear that our opinions are to be spit upon by the Snowden worshippers.This is my one and only response to this thread today, since this entire post is a personal attack on me, and quite uncivil.Is the phrase "Snowden worshippers" appropriate at all? Isn't that a personal insult? I found it incredibly offensive that you felt it appropriate to hurl, as a thunderbolt from heaven under the mod tag, a threat to lock the entire thread because people are disagreeing with you.I find it incredibly offensive that you complain about personal attacks (which you don't quote), then you yourself slur every single person who has disagreed with you as "Snowden worshippers." This does not describe me. I do not worship the man, and have in fact been quite clear that I may not even admire him. If you want to lock this thread, do it. Then delete my account and all my posts. I have no problem with that.But I will not tolerate being insulted like this without response.

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#1255

Post by SueDB » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:59 pm

SPECULATION


The longer it goes, the less "popular" Mr. Snowden is becoming. Information is perishable. It would be my fondest hope and the the "powers that be" would immediately take action to change and reconfigure the planned structure of the computer systems/programming used by the NSA. It is not that I want to live in a surveillance society, rather I would be much more comfortable having the latest and greatest information available to the elected leaders to safeguard and advance my country's interest in the world - simple pure self interest.





This is going to cost lots of money from the taxpayer to change all of this. Those who want the machine dismantled are - I'm afraid - in for a big disappointment. Just like the Germans glommed on, I bet there are many other countries besides the US/UK/Aus/NZ that love sharing the information garnered. I am betting too that there are lots and lots of Intelligence Services around the world who are very uncomfortable with Mr Snowden claiming to have as much classified information as possible. I would offer up that there many be many embarrassed governments with extensive revelations of the data.





Both the Manning and Snowden Espionage Cases (Manning has already pleaded Guilty to espionage charges and Snowden has been charged) make our allies very uncomfortable with the extent that many of the National Intelligence Services are in bed the US and other intelligence services.





On the other hand as far as money goes, the crap the NSA is using is probably outdated and needs to be upgraded anyway with faster and more modern equipment. $$$MORE MONEY$$$





It might be a good idea to replace the network structure etc which could result in Mr. Snowden's info about the NSA becoming bupkis fast.








/SPECULATION





NOT SPECULATION -


Mr. Snowden's actions are going to cost the US Taxpayer billions in dollar$$$.


/NOT SPECULATION





As far as the US's reputation in the world is concerned; IMHO we have earned quite a bit of it, but not all.
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Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

#1256

Post by esseff44 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:08 pm

You are right. That wasn't so much speculation as a prediction based on speculation.(ducks)

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#1257

Post by Foggy » Wed Jul 24, 2013 4:54 pm

I'm not going to lock the thread. If there are any more personal insults on either side, I'm simply going to start editing or deleting posts.As for Loh, on about 95% of the issues we discuss on this board, we agree. But on the second page of this thread, on the very first day it started, you told SLQ, who happens to be a lady, and who didn't attack you at all: "I know you don't give a fuck, so I won't bother explaining. Enjoy whatever epistemological state you're in."But now "Snowden worshippers" is a personal attack and you're deeply offended. :roll: And no, it wasn't an attack solely on you. It was addressed to kimba and featured JT8 prominently. Some people seem to think if they disagree strongly enough with someone else, the rule against personal attacks doesn't apply to them any more. But it does, and that attitude has to stop. Whatever. Let's discuss Snowden in this thread, and stop this bickering. I said my piece and so did everybody else. There's really no reason to keep the hostility going, but there are excellent reasons for stopping it.
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Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

#1258

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:46 pm

:vacuum: (The fresh start smiley.)

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#1259

Post by magdalen77 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:57 pm

I am not certain that I would admit to this. .. . . I did "play" McGovern in a staged Junior (?) High School debate. I was afterwards physically assaulted by a Nixon supporter -- being a military school (of sorts), I was outnumbered by a wider margin than Nixon's winning electoral vote margin.MetoDCI was the only kid in my 7th and 8th grade class (small school so 2 grades were together) who was for McGovern. I had to represent him at the "presidential" debate. I was very quiet and shy. They got the most vociferous girl in the class to represent Nixon. It didn't go well.

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#1260

Post by Addie » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:36 pm

Another country heard from.





[link]WaPo,http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wor ... s/?print=1[/link]





Iran, belatedly, invites Snowden to visit, ‘elaborate’ on U.S. spying practices ...





The state-affiliated Fars News Agency reports that an Iranian NGO known as “Justice-Seekers Without Borders” has written him a letter asking him to come to Iran and “elaborate” on any information he has about U.S. espionage against the country.





“Since one of the United States’ illegal actions disclosed by you is spying on the Iranian citizens, we invite you to visit Iran and elaborate on the US administration’s measures in this regard in detail,” the letter said. NGOs in Iran are, typically, closely affiliated with the government. U.S. cyber-espionage against Iran has frequently targeted the nuclear program there, including with a program code-named “Olympic Games” that sabotaged uranium-enrichment facilities.





Snowden has previously leaked information about U.S. cyber-espionage against China, apparently in an attempt to curry favor with the Hong Kong and Beijing governments as they considered his requests for shelter. While Iran’s invitation comes later than others, Tehran would surely be interested in hearing any details of U.S. spying programs against Iran.





Iran was not included in Snowden’s earlier list of dozen-plus countries from which he’d requested asylum. But the country does have one potential benefit for Snowden: He could likely get there safely. Unlike Latin America, which would almost certainly require a flight over European countries that might attempt to bring him in, Iran is easily accessible from Moscow, perhaps by way of Turkmenistan or Azerbaijan, if not directly over the Caspian Sea.
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Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

#1261

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:40 pm

I am not certain that I would admit to this. .. . . I did "play" McGovern in a staged Junior (?) High School debate. I was afterwards physically assaulted by a Nixon supporter -- being a military school (of sorts), I was outnumbered by a wider margin than Nixon's winning electoral vote margin.MetoDCI was the only kid in my 7th and 8th grade class (small school so 2 grades were together) who was for McGovern. I had to represent him at the "presidential" debate. I was very quiet and shy. They got the most vociferous girl in the class to represent Nixon. It didn't go well.I took a speech class at UCLA as a Freshman. One of the assignments was to select a speech, any speech, and deliver it.I was Adlai Stevenson (one of my all time heroes). ". . . until hell freezes over."

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#1262

Post by magdalen77 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:23 pm

In the interests of getting information for the debate I had my mom drive me to the McGovern Headquarters which was in a town about 15 miles away. It was the county seat and also had one of our state colleges, so it was probably one of the few places in the county that had more than a smattering of Democrats. There I met Nancy Kulp (aka Miss Jane Hathaway from the Beverly Hillbillies). That was pretty exciting to me.

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#1263

Post by mimi » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:18 pm

don't make me post the wresting gifs. don't make me. [-( i'm pretty good at ignoring a bunch of nonsense when it gets too nuts. but I'll post the wresting gifs if i have to.don't make me.look. i think snowden is a jerk.i have not attacked anybody who thinks otherwise.do me the favor of the same.post what you want. but don't attack me personally.i'm kinda nice in real life. :hug:

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#1264

Post by Curious Blue » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:49 pm

Snowden's Russian lawyer, said after meeting with his client that Snowden is staying in the transit zone "for now" and "intends to stay in Russia, study Russian culture."Like he's embarking on an extended learning quest in a foreign land. I don't get why they have to try to spin it into something that sounds cool. Something about that quote sounds like it fits within a Russian tradition of euphemistic speaking. I.e., he is saying either what he needs to say right now, or what he thinks he needs to say.Russia is no longer Communist but it is still a very authoritarian country with an oppressive justice system. I really don't think that Snowden's position in transit limbo is all that secure. Getting "asylum" probably won't be an improvement.

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Edward Snowden, the NSA, and related topics

#1265

Post by SueDB » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:54 pm

I wonder how many minders will have to be detailed regardless of which country he land in? Placing myself as a foreign country's intelligence chief, I would be real uncomfortable when Mr. Snowden doesn't like something my country is doing. I wouldn't want any surprises, and would have people walking in his pants with him.
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#1266

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:55 pm

Still at Sheremetyevo Airport. Russia is fucking with him and wants him to go home.

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#1267

Post by Suranis » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:05 am

Or at least go somewhere else.
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#1268

Post by SueDB » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:10 am

Well, they didn't ask for this (It's not my (Russia's) fault!!!! :(( :(( :(( :(( )
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#1269

Post by esseff44 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:35 am

How ofter does the Obama White House team up with the Republican leadership to defeat a coalition of Dem Liberals and Republican Conservatives/Libertarians?In a narrow vote, the legislation to limit the NSA surveillance powers failed.[/break1]nytimes.com/2013/07/25/us/politics/house-defeats-effort-to-rein-in-nsa-data-gathering.html?hp&_r=0]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/25/us/po ... ml?hp&_r=0But it's not over. This will be up for consideration again and again.

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#1270

Post by Suranis » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:37 am

In an interesting development, Snowden is being used by the nutso crowd to put their delusions through his mouth. *note* I'm not saying Snowden has anything to do with that himself, but he is being used as a "voice of authority."[/break1]chronicle.su/news/snowden-reveals-haarps-global-assassination-agenda/]http://www.chronicle.su/news/snowden-re ... on-agenda/"Snowden reveals HAARP’s Global Assassination AgendaBy Oliver Wilis, on July 10th, 2013http://www.chronicle.su/wp-contentsrc="http:// ... 00x199.jpg Snowden speaking from a Custom Faraday Cage in Sheremetyevo Airport’s Hotel Novotel (Photo: The Internet Chronicle)MOSCOW, Russia – Edward Snowden, NSA whistleblower and fugitive, released documents Tuesday to Internet Chronicle reporters proving that the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, or HAARP, is definitively engaged in a program of assassination and mind control.EMERGENCY UPDATE: Snowden has revealed an oncoming global cataclysm.http://www.chronicle.su/news/edward-sno ... nent/While the military prison industrial complex has routinely insisted that the Alaskan-based HAARP is only meant to study natural phenomena in earth’s ionosphere, Snowden has managed to blow open a brutally massive charade.“The HAARP research station,” he said, “strategically based away from prying eyes near Gakona, Alaska, is actually used to terminate or manipulate would-be dissidents of global capitalism on the scale of millions of people.”Added Snowden, using finger quotes, “With these terrestrial antennas, NATO [the North Atlantic Treaty Organization] is able to, on a global scale, remotely silence ‘perpetrators’ of ‘deviant or subversive’ strains of thought.”Unbeknownst to victims or their loved ones, HAARP projects ultra-high-powered radio waves. Those waves operate at the same electronic frequency as the truncus encephali, or brain stem, selectively inducing deaths seemingly by natural causes – including by some appearing to coroners as innocuous as strokes or heart attacks.“When and if the intelligence community doesn’t view outright assassination as an optimal effect,” said Snowden, “‘they’ can simply make a ‘target’ act in an insane fashion, in order to discredit them. When we were in transit between Hong Kong and Moscow, WikiLeaks staff and I had to fend off the constant threat of radio-generated homicidal delusions.”More at the link. I left in the link to more breathtaking revelations about the global catastrophe if you are curious.
Edit: Actually, reading some more articles on that site i may have been punked by a satirical website. Whoops! Oh well, can happen to us all I guess! Sad thing is, someone sent it to me as a deadly serious revelation by Snowden.
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#1271

Post by Kriselda Gray » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:52 am

Americans turn against Edward SnowdenBy Aaron Blake, Published: JULY 24, 9:14 AM ETThe American people, who once defended Edward Snowden’s leaks of sensitive intelligence information gathered by the U.S. government, are starting to turn against him.A new Washington Post-ABC News poll shows that a majority of Americans — 53 percent — now say the Snowden should be charged with a crime for his leaks. That’s up from 43 percent less than a month ago.Over that same span, the percentage saying Snowden should not be charged has dropped from 48 percent to 36 percent.Much of the movement comes from conservatives and moderates, who are now more likely to say Snowden should be charged with a crime. Among conservatives, 56 percent believe he should be charged, and 40 percent feel “strongly” about it.Previously, there was no significant difference among the three groups.Posted for informational purposes only.LINK: [/break1]washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/07/24/americans-turn-against-edward-snowden/]http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post- ... d-snowden/
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#1272

Post by mimi » Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:54 am

In an interesting development, Snowden is being used by the nutso crowd to put their delusions through his mouth. *note* I'm not saying Snowden has anything to do with that himself, but he is being used as a "voice of authority."[/break1]chronicle.su/news/snowden-reveals-haarps-global-assassination-agenda/]http://www.chronicle.su/news/snowden-re ... on-agenda/"Snowden reveals HAARP’s Global Assassination AgendaBy Oliver Wilis, on July 10th, 2013http://www.chronicle.su/wp-contentsrc="http:// ... 00x199.jpg [SNIP]More at the link. I left in the link to more breathtaking revelations about the global catastrophe if you are curious.
Edit: Actually, reading some more articles on that site i may have been punked by a satirical website. Whoops! Oh well, can happen to us all I guess! Sad thing is, someone sent it to me as a deadly serious revelation by Snowden.
yeah, the article just after this one is "Snowden Granted Sainthood". The one before it is "Snowden uncovers shocking truth behind Chemtrails".The comments are giggle-worthy (if you're me):Richard FormoJuly 24, 2013 at 4:29 PM · Reply What the hell’s the matter with you people ? If you don’t know the difference between a con trail and a chem trail,then,you should get enlightened on the subject ! This ain’t no joke ! We’re in “deep shit” ! A condensation trail doesn’t criss cross the sky for hundreds of miles,stupid ! It dissipates in a few seconds,not hours of continuous bombardment of aluminum dioxide,selenium and another that I can’t recall,at the moment. We,ALL,should be Very aware of what is going on,instead of being blinded by our material possessions,etc ! Get your heads out of your asses and SEE !!

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#1273

Post by Foggy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:02 am

Wait, isn't having my head up my ass a good way to avoid breathing aluminum dioxide, selenium, and another that I can't recall at the moment? :-?
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