Judges Behaving Badly

Lunaluz
Posts: 519
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:22 pm
Location: Seattle area
Occupation: Bean Counter for Boeing Commercial. You break it I find a way to fix it.

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#376

Post by Lunaluz » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:41 pm

Pressure is ramping up on Judge Persky...I hope they get rid of him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bro ... 23f9517be0
Being of the female persuasion I am outraged over the 6 month -2 month sentence.

I was attacked 3 times during my University years in the 70's, all of them on Campus, twice from dorm parties.. and once walking home from a Pizza place on Campus. I was able to fend off the attackers all but once, back then there was no one to tell and nobody really cared, you talked to your friends about what happened and many of my friends had similar experiences. We chalked it up to not being careful enough and we moved on in our lives, all we could do. It hasn't blighted my life, but it did make me more situationally aware. Women have been looking over their shoulders for a millennia and that doesn't look like it is going to change anytime soon.
***I am well aware that the majority of men would not behave that way so this in no a man-hating screed or judgement***



User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 43437
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Over the drawbridge

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#377

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Maybe Judge Persky can go teach at Boalt Hall Berkeley Law. That's where the misfits are getting sent these days.



Lee Eel
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:40 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#378

Post by Lee Eel » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:56 pm

dunstvangeet wrote:
Maybenaut wrote:What I really needed was less beer and moar sleep :)
Heretic! Nobody needs less beer! :bar:
:yeah: :yeah: :mbounce: :yeah:


Termagant! Termagant! Sis Boom Bah!!!

User avatar
Notorial Dissent
Posts: 9687
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#379

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:04 pm

I would say a million signature petition, according to the morning news, asking for his removal is more than a bit of agitation.


The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

User avatar
TollandRCR
Posts: 19955
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#380

Post by TollandRCR » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:05 pm

The proportion of college women being sexually harassed may be about one out of every ten women or higher, with differences among campuses. The proportion of college women being sexually assaulted is probably lower and perhaps harder to know because women often do not want to report a sexual assault as an assault. Law suits and the Clery Act are forcing colleges to take these problems far more seriously than most have ever taken them. It is no longer "just a part" of college life.

The fellow who played lacrosse at the Junior University* seems to have been handled under the old regime. The practitioners of the old regime are to be found in college police forces, deans of students offices, college presidencies, and judges' benches.

*Leland Stanford Junior University


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 43437
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Over the drawbridge

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#381

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:16 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ



HumbleScribe
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Zzyzx Road
Occupation: Green eye-shade wearing bean counter

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#382

Post by HumbleScribe » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:54 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
:snippity:

The fellow who played lacrosse at the Junior University* seems to have been handled under the old regime. The practitioners of the old regime are to be found in college police forces, deans of students offices, college presidencies, and judges' benches.

*Leland Stanford Junior University
:rotflmao:

Home of Hoover's Last Erection, too.


You must be a Bear, 'Ruin or Trojan.



User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 43437
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Over the drawbridge

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#383

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:56 pm

I believe Tollie is a triple Longhorn.



User avatar
Fortinbras
Posts: 2526
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#384

Post by Fortinbras » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:06 pm

I feel some sympathy for Judge Persky. He was completely taken in by a well-orchestrated (and, I am sure, very well-financed) fictionalized back story about Brock's innocense and naivete and so forth, which included a calculated (and probably subsidized) letter-writing campaign that included pleas for mercy from at least one former California judge, a colleague of Perky, and several other distinguished persons, the like of whom seldom speak up for defendants.

IF this were a Federal court, Judge Persky would have the power, under Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 35, to correct (by increasing) the sentence imposed within 14 days. But it's a California state court and I cannot find a similar allowance in the California court rules.



User avatar
Maybenaut
Posts: 4415
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:58 am
Location: Maybelot

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#385

Post by Maybenaut » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:44 pm

Fortinbras wrote:I feel some sympathy for Judge Persky. He was completely taken in by a well-orchestrated (and, I am sure, very well-financed) fictionalized back story about Brock's innocense and naivete and so forth, which included a calculated (and probably subsidized) letter-writing campaign that included pleas for mercy from at least one former California judge, a colleague of Perky, and several other distinguished persons, the like of whom seldom speak up for defendants.

IF this were a Federal court, Judge Persky would have the power, under Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure, Rule 35, to correct (by increasing) the sentence imposed within 14 days. But it's a California state court and I cannot find a similar allowance in the California court rules.
Are you saying that in a federal case a federal district court judge can increase an otherwise non-erroneous sentence, and one that was wholly within in his discretion to make, once it becomes clear to him that the public doesn't like it? I don't think that Rule 35 stands for that proposition. There has to he an error in the sentence, and the error can't be, "Whoa! I totally underestimated public sentiment on this issue."



User avatar
Sterngard Friegen
Posts: 43437
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Location: Over the drawbridge

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#386

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:00 am

Rule 35. Correcting or Reducing a Sentence

(a) Correcting Clear Error. Within 14 days after sentencing, the court may correct a sentence that resulted from arithmetical, technical, or other clear error.



chancery
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:51 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#387

Post by chancery » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:26 am

A divided ninth circuit panel ruled last fall that Rule 35 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure allows a judge to double a previously-imposed prison term of a man who laughed during a sentencing hearing. By previously-imposed I mean earlier in the same hearing.

It's an interesting decision that's worth reading for the interaction between the district court judge and the defendant.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o ... -10124.pdf

Nevada District Chief Judge Navarro (the judge presiding in the Bundy-Nevada prosecutions), sitting by designation,* dissented. She attempted to address the technical issue that was the basis for the majority's decision, but it was clear that she felt that the judge had over-reacted to what might have been a nervous reaction. The defendant, in apologizing to the judge, had explained that he had laughed because the initial sentence was lighter than he had expected, in light of the harsh things the judge had said about him at the outset of the sentencing hearing.

Unfortunately for the defendant, his counsel had abandoned the reasonableness issue on appeal and pursued only the technical issue.
___________
* The federal courts of appeals regularly invite selected district court judges to participate in a few appeals. The stated basis for this is an overflow of work, but all recognize that the practice is valuable for allowing appellate judges and trial judges to gain insight in each other's very different perspectives on the federal justice system.



User avatar
Maybenaut
Posts: 4415
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:58 am
Location: Maybelot

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#388

Post by Maybenaut » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:57 am

chancery wrote:A divided ninth circuit panel ruled last fall that Rule 35 of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure allows a judge to double a previously-imposed prison term of a man who laughed during a sentencing hearing. By previously-imposed I mean earlier in the same hearing.

It's an interesting decision that's worth reading for the interaction between the district court judge and the defendant.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/o ... -10124.pdf

Nevada District Chief Judge Navarro (the judge presiding in the Bundy-Nevada prosecutions), sitting by designation,* dissented. She attempted to address the technical issue that was the basis for the majority's decision, but it was clear that she felt that the judge had over-reacted to what might have been a nervous reaction. The defendant, in apologizing to the judge, had explained that he had laughed because the initial sentence was lighter than he had expected, in light of the harsh things the judge had said about him at the outset of the sentencing hearing.

Unfortunately for the defendant, his counsel had abandoned the reasonableness issue on appeal and pursued only the technical issue.
___________
* The federal courts of appeals regularly invite selected district court judges to participate in a few appeals. The stated basis for this is an overflow of work, but all recognize that the practice is valuable for allow appellate judges and trial judges to gain insight in each other's very different perspectives on the federal justice system.
That is an interesting case. I cannot for the life of me understand why some people persist in acting against their own best interest even when the are under a microscope. Fortunately I don't see a lot of that in my practice. The military folks commit the same sorts of crimes that the civilians do, but they're at least socialized into the organization well enough that they generally manage to behave themselves at their own trials.

having said all that, though, my reading of Ochoaisn't that Rule 35 "allowed" the judge to double the previously imposed sentence. Rather, it sounded to me as though it said that Rule 35 wasn't even implicated because the hearing had not yet concluded. I could be wrong; I don't practice in the federal system. But whatever it says, it doesn't appear to provide any authority for increasing the sentence after the hearing has ended absent some error in the sentence.



chancery
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:51 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#389

Post by chancery » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:58 am

Fortinbras wrote:I feel some sympathy for Judge Persky.

Understanding, yes, of a clinical sort. Sympathy, decidedly not. The risk of inappropriate identification by the judge with a member from his own class and background was so obvious that it was incompetent (to say the least) of the judge not to recognize the problem and make allowances. Or recuse himself. That's his job, and there was nothing subtle about the danger.

I consider beneath contempt the plea based on the
calculated (and probably subsidized) letter-writing campaign that included pleas for mercy from at least one former California judge, a colleague of Perky, and several other distinguished persons, the like of whom seldom speak up for defendants.
High profile defendants who are rich or well-connected can always muster exactly such glittering letters from "the like of whom seldom speak up for [poor] [dark-skinned] [bad-looking] [unconnected] defendants. It's routine in white-collar crime.

The issue is eloquently discussed by a defense lawyer in a post at mimesislaw: http://mimesislaw.com/fault-lines/brock ... pact/10288 HIghly recommended.

Federal prosecutors rarely seek recusal absent extraordinary conduct verging on disfunction by a judge. I don't know, but I doubt that the practice of most competent state court prosecutors is different. A government motion for recusal prior to the sentencing hearing would properly have been summarily denied as verging on contempt. In hindsight, and in light of the sentence issued, grounds for recusal seem at least arguable, but it's too late.

That said (whip-saw warning), laws permitting judicial recall via petitions are pernicious. A practice of removing a judge based on the general public's view that she has made a single terrible decision, or even a half-dozen of them, could ruin judicial independence.



User avatar
TollandRCR
Posts: 19955
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#390

Post by TollandRCR » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:39 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:I believe Tollie is a triple Longhorn.
Indeed true. That means that I am easily able to take on a simple tree.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

HumbleScribe
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Zzyzx Road
Occupation: Green eye-shade wearing bean counter

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#391

Post by HumbleScribe » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:11 pm

Looks like the DA of Sta. Clara County is none too happy with Judge Persky.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/prosec ... li=BBnb7Kz

Does the elected district attorney have this power to do this? Doesn't this infringe upon the separation of executive and judicial branches?

I have been reading the "California Code of Judicial Ethics." It is a little heavy, but fascinating reading for an ordinary citizen. The first two canons, especially the "appearance of impropriety in all the judge's activities," and "independence of the judiciary," to me are VERY important, and should be interpreted as broadly as possible. But that might be the accountant in me where we are supposed to bend over backwards so as not to have even the slightest perception of impaired independence when it comes to issuing financial statements.



TexasFilly
Posts: 17559
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:52 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#392

Post by TexasFilly » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:19 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:I believe Tollie is a triple Longhorn.
That is part of what makes him a great man.


I love the poorly educated!!!

I believe Anita Hill!

User avatar
bob
Posts: 23773
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 12:22 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#393

Post by bob » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:23 pm

HumbleScribe wrote:Does the elected district attorney have this power to do this? Doesn't this infringe upon the separation of executive and judicial branches?
In California state trial courts, every litigant gets one free challenge to a judge. Per the article:
Each side in criminal cases is allowed one motion each to remove a judge from a case and have it assigned to another judge, but such a move is rare.
"Rare" (IMHO) is scaremongering; "uncommon" would be more accurate.


Imagex5 Imagex2 Imagex3 Imagex2

chancery
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:51 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#394

Post by chancery » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:11 pm

bob wrote:
HumbleScribe wrote:Does the elected district attorney have this power to do this? Doesn't this infringe upon the separation of executive and judicial branches?
In California state trial courts, every litigant gets one free challenge to a judge. Per the article:
Each side in criminal cases is allowed one motion each to remove a judge from a case and have it assigned to another judge, but such a move is rare.
"Rare" (IMHO) is scaremongering; "uncommon" would be more accurate.
Civil cases too, IIRC from my two years of TDY in Los Angeles. And my recollection is that we checked out judges carefully before passing on the right to challenge; I remember at least one in which we pulled the trigger. Of course, the danger of getting a judge who was worse was a big deal.



User avatar
boots
Posts: 2755
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 5:23 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#395

Post by boots » Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:29 pm

bob wrote:
HumbleScribe wrote:Does the elected district attorney have this power to do this? Doesn't this infringe upon the separation of executive and judicial branches?
In California state trial courts, every litigant gets one free challenge to a judge. Per the article:
Each side in criminal cases is allowed one motion each to remove a judge from a case and have it assigned to another judge, but such a move is rare.
"Rare" (IMHO) is scaremongering; "uncommon" would be more accurate.
It's neither. If an attorney has a significant case, research on the assigned judge takes place and the options are often discussed with the client. Lawyer groups online are thus full of questions from attorneys about experiences with certain judges. Unfortunately, the right to recuse a judge runs out 10 days after the judge is assigned to the case, which in a typical civil matter would mean there have not yet been any contested matters before that judge when the decision has to be made. But it happens all the time and no one bats an eye at a timely CCP 170.6.

There is also a means to challenge a judge for cause under a different statute, but it is rarely successful.



User avatar
esseff44
Posts: 12507
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#396

Post by esseff44 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:58 pm

Remember this judge who had a defense attorney handcuffed in court in Las Vegas?

He lost his seat in yesterday's election in Nevada.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/con ... f?section=



User avatar
wavey davey
Posts: 1473
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#397

Post by wavey davey » Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:50 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:I believe Tollie is a triple Longhorn.
Indeed true. That means that I am easily able to take on a simple tree.
That is as may be. However, I don't think you want to take on the berserk rabble which accompanies said tree. I refer, of course, to the (alleged) Leland Stanford Jr. Marching Band. By alleged, I mean the marching part. They don't march, they shamble about.



User avatar
Flatpointhigh
Posts: 7496
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:05 pm
Location: Hotel California, PH23
Occupation: Voice Actor, Podcaster, I hold a Ph.D in Procrastination.
Contact:

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#398

Post by Flatpointhigh » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:23 pm

wavey davey wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:I believe Tollie is a triple Longhorn.
Indeed true. That means that I am easily able to take on a simple tree.
That is as may be. However, I don't think you want to take on the berserk rabble which accompanies said tree. I refer, of course, to the (alleged) Leland Stanford Jr. Marching Band. By alleged, I mean the marching part. They don't march, they shamble about.
My roomie @ UC Davis was a member of the Stanford Band when it known as "The Robber Barons"



"It is wrong to say God made rich and poor; He only made male and female, and He gave them the Earth as their inheritance."- Thomas Paine, Forward to Agrarian Justice
Cancer broke me

User avatar
TollandRCR
Posts: 19955
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#399

Post by TollandRCR » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:26 pm

wavey davey wrote:... I refer, of course, to the (alleged) Leland Stanford Jr. Marching Band. By alleged, I mean the marching part. They don't march, they shamble about.
They don't play none too well neither.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
wavey davey
Posts: 1473
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 pm

Re: Judges Behaving Badly

#400

Post by wavey davey » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:30 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
wavey davey wrote:... I refer, of course, to the (alleged) Leland Stanford Jr. Marching Band. By alleged, I mean the marching part. They don't march, they shamble about.
They don't play none too well neither.
That too, also.



Post Reply

Return to “Courts, Law, and Legal Issues”