Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

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John Thomas8
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Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#1

Post by John Thomas8 »

Ya, it's just sportsball stuff, but a major league baseball player has filed a lawsuit seeking redress for the cheating by the Houston Astros who won a World Series by actively cheating.

Here's an ESPN article (ESPN News Services), in part:

On Monday, he fired back, filing a civil lawsuit in Los Angeles Superior Court. He is accusing the Astros of unfair business practices, negligence and intentional interference with contractual and economic relations. According to the suit, filed by Ben Meiselas of Geragos & Geragos in Los Angeles, Bolsinger stated that the "Astros' unlawful and tortious business practices have had consequences far beyond wins and losses and strikeouts or home runs."

Sorry, I'm unable to find were the actual court filings are located.

Should the courts get involved?

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Jim
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#2

Post by Jim »

That was his final MLB game pitched...can he prove the Astros blatant cheating cost him his job?

John Thomas8
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#3

Post by John Thomas8 »

Most likely, from the current publicly available information. This could go class action, as there's over a dozen players I've seen that have been adversely affected by results vs the Astros in the past 3-4 years.

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Mikedunford
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#4

Post by Mikedunford »

(1) The courts shouldn't get involved.
(2) The tie to California isn't immediately apparent. He was playing for a Canadian team, and the game was presumably in Texas.
(3) Assuming Texas law applies (as the law of the site of the tort), the interference case is frivolous. Texas law requires a willful and intentional act of interference.

(4) Also, I just looked at dude's 2017 stats. No fucking way does he prove causation.
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John Thomas8
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#5

Post by John Thomas8 »

Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:22 am
(1) The courts shouldn't get involved.
(2) The tie to California isn't immediately apparent. He was playing for a Canadian team, and the game was presumably in Texas.
(3) Assuming Texas law applies (as the law of the site of the tort), the interference case is frivolous. Texas law requires a willful and intentional act of interference.

(4) Also, I just looked at dude's 2017 stats. No fucking way does he prove causation.
1) Can't argue, except individuals should have some sort of recourse if the sports body fails to behave honestly.

2) Can't argue, I have no leg to stand on for knowledge about actual legal mechanics of determining jurisdiction.

3) Here's were I actually disagree. The cheating was fundamentally willful and intentional, most likely approved by team ownership after being created by team staff. You can actually steal signs during a game, it happens. But the sign stealing in this instance was organized, developed and improved upon by the Astros organization.

4) While in the filer's case the link between the cheating and his dismissal from MBL is quite tenuous, I did note that this could be made into a class action suit due to the use of performance incentives in MBL contracts, where the cheating materially and adversely affected a number of players and prevented them from achieving those incentives, some of them quite lucrative.

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bob
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#6

Post by bob »

Mike is correct that causation is too tenuous for legal relief.

And there's no enough commonality among proposed class members; that won't happen.
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Reality Check
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#7

Post by Reality Check »

I saw on the ESPN Bottom Line that MLB is investigating the Red Sox for sign stealing now. I would be surprised if Alex Cora didn't bring the system over with him.

Can you imagine being on the Dodgers and knowing you were cheated out of a World Series ring twice?
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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#8

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

bob wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:08 pm
Mike is correct that causation is too tenuous for legal relief.

And there's no enough commonality among proposed class members; that won't happen.
Pffft. What's wrong with you and MikeDunford? Just get Michael Avenatti on it.

And, of course, whatever money Avenatti recovers he'll keep.

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Mikedunford
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#9

Post by Mikedunford »

John Thomas8 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:01 pm
3) Here's were I actually disagree. The cheating was fundamentally willful and intentional, most likely approved by team ownership after being created by team staff. You can actually steal signs during a game, it happens. But the sign stealing in this instance was organized, developed and improved upon by the Astros organization.
The cheating can be willful and intentional cheating without being a willful and intentional act of interference. They were trying to cheat to win baseball games; any players that were individually harmed were collateral damage. They weren't trying to disrupt those players' contracts for their own gain, or to put their own people in, or anything like that.
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
--Lord Thomas Henry Bingham to Boris Johnson, on being asked whether he would miss being in "the best club in London" if the Law Lords moved from Parliament to a Supreme Court.

John Thomas8
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#10

Post by John Thomas8 »

Again, there's the contract incentives that the cheating definitely and with malice were violated. If they're not obnoxiously stupid those involved that knew that players have monetary incentives in their contracts. It's absurd to assume they didn't know that by cheating they would materially affect the "victims" of that cheating.

That the suit was filed in the wrong place I won't argue (I'm not qualified to do so). That this specific filer doesn't really, in fact, have a case as evidenced by his on the field performance is fairly obvious. But cheating knowing it would adversely affect a fairly large number of people over a period of at least 3 years and choosing to continue doing it is, in my opinion, quite actionable.

But I'm a historical wargamer and IT nut, not a lawyer.

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Gregg
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Re: Houston, They Have Created A Problem.

#11

Post by Gregg »

Anti-Trust Exemption.

Its almost as foolproof as IOKIYAR in Bill Barr's Justice Department.
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