Comments solicited Family v $80B company

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neonzx
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#26

Post by neonzx » Thu May 02, 2019 6:32 am

You need a lawyer.

Reading your draft complaint, it is obvious you are very emotionally involved. An attorney can remove the emotions of a client from the case and stay on-point with the facts and in legal lanes. Best of luck. :towel:
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Mikedunford
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#27

Post by Mikedunford » Thu May 02, 2019 8:58 am

Tom,

What you're asking us to do is to second-guess other lawyers, who presumably have had the benefit of being able to have a full sit-down and consultation with you, and who are more familiar with the key facts, on the basis of very incomplete information. I won't do that. It would be unethical on multiple grounds.

I am going to say a few other things. They may sound harsh, and I apologize, but it seems like this is a situation where your decisions could have repercussions for other people, so I think being blunt is called for.

You say you've consulted with lawyers, but you don't agree with what they are telling you. What makes you so sure you are competent enough to rationally disagree? I'm pretty sure that I'm not competent enough to disagree, at least without doing quite a bit of targeted research, and that's research that I spent a couple of years learning how to do with a minimal level of competence. Fogbow might have been part of my inspiration for going to law school, and the encouragement from the lawyers here played a huge role in why I followed through and went, but any advantage that my time here might have given me in succeeding at law school was, at most, a slight headstart. Yeah, there was a real advantage - but it only lasted a few weeks, at most.

You say you didn't agree with a lawyer about the need to file in state court. What makes you so sure that lawyer was wrong? The law on diversity jurisdiction is complex. Requirements regarding things like essential parties to the suit are complex. Those two areas intersect. The intersection is complex.

You say you've read appellate cases. What makes you certain that they are both on point and still good law? Do you know how to Shep? Do you know what the different designations mean? Were the cases from jurisdictions with similar tort law to the jurisdiction you're in? Do you know enough about conflict of laws to know for sure which state's law would apply under which circumstances?

I am, with all the respect in the world, skeptical that you have the necessary skill set to make most, if not all of those determinations. That's particularly true given that your understanding of the law is such that I'm anything but certain that you correctly understood what Dr. Caligari said about diversity and your complaint.

I'm not unsympathetic. I'm not deliberately being a dick. I'm trying to give you the help that you actually need. It just so happens that the help you actually need isn't the help you're asking for.

You are out on a ledge. We are trying to talk you off that ledge. You are asking us to push you.

You need to get a lawyer. And you need to listen to that lawyer, with as few presumptions about your own legal knowledge as you can manage.
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
--Lord Thomas Henry Bingham to Boris Johnson, on being asked whether he would miss being in "the best club in London" if the Law Lords moved from Parliament to a Supreme Court.

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Tiredretiredlawyer
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#28

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu May 02, 2019 10:20 am

Dan1100 wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 11:21 pm
All the things you ask are things that vary from state to state.

I know it isn't what you want to hear. You need a lawyer. I wouldn't represent myself on a case like this in a million years and I'm willing to bet there isn't a lawyer on this board that would either.
:yeah: Nor would a Fogbow lawyer use a family member as an expert. This is a complicated case requiring experts, doctors and costs for those. I gently suggest you get a lawyer.
“A black woman can invent something for the benefit of humankind.” -Bessie Blount-Griffin, physical therapist, inventor of devices for disabled WWII veterans, and forensic scientist.

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Dr. Caligari
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#29

Post by Dr. Caligari » Thu May 02, 2019 11:27 am

Two plaintiffs are in one state while a third is in another. The defendants are all headquartered in separate states yet none are in the state where the plaintiff's are. This is shown in the section on Party's.
Where is a corporation a "citizen"?
I did not go into where the defendants operate but they are all major corporations which each have operations within the District and two of them operate in the Division which the action would be filed.
Re-read your own Complaint. Some of the defendants are not corporations, they are LLCs. Where is an LLC a "citizen"?

As Mike Dunford pointed out, this is just one tiny area where you (a) don't know what you are doing, and (b) don't know what you don't know.

Get a lawyer. Please.
J.D., Miskatonic University School of Law

chancery
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#30

Post by chancery » Thu May 02, 2019 12:03 pm

:yeah:

And figuring out the "unwitty diversities" of diversity jurisdiction is easy (it's written down, if you know where to look, although it's not all in one place, or two or three), compared to assessing where to bring the litigation, and whether you're better off in federal or state court. And that's just for starters.

Please get a lawyer.

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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#31

Post by RTH10260 » Thu May 02, 2019 5:38 pm

Isn't Tom's implicit question: where do I find a lawyer when others have not been interested in taking the case?

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SLQ
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#32

Post by SLQ » Thu May 02, 2019 5:46 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:58 am
You need to get a lawyer. And you need to listen to that lawyer, with as few presumptions about your own legal knowledge as you can manage.
This. ^^ Attorneys are loathe to take a case that they fear will be micromanaged by a client, or in this case the lay expert for a client. The ethical rules put strategy (including which causes of action to pursue) squarely in the hands of the lawyer. I can say from previous experience that I have withdrawn from a case when my vision of the case and my client's vision were not congruent. (In response to my very vague but required motion to withdraw, this client actually made an analogy to hiring someone to mow your lawn. The client said that I was to follow instructions about exactly how the lawn was to be mowed, what pattern, what time, etc. My reply said, "Yeah, that's not how it works, and this is reason enough for me to be permitted to withdraw." I got my withdrawal, which the judge had previoiusly denied because he believed the client needed representation. (The client did need representation, but after the lawn mower analogy, it could not be me.)
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try."
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Mikedunford
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#33

Post by Mikedunford » Fri May 03, 2019 12:34 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:38 pm
Isn't Tom's implicit question: where do I find a lawyer when others have not been interested in taking the case?
The impression that I got from Tom's first post is that there were at least some instances where the lawyer was interested in the case, but Tom wasn't interested in the lawyers. And that this was in part because Tom believes there's a way the case should be argued and their approach didn't match his views on that.

If that was a mistaken impression, I apologize.
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
--Lord Thomas Henry Bingham to Boris Johnson, on being asked whether he would miss being in "the best club in London" if the Law Lords moved from Parliament to a Supreme Court.

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Judge Roy Bean
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#34

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Fri May 03, 2019 12:42 am

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 2:55 am
If the company has $80B in sales, I can guarantee that they have a large staff of in-house lawyers who are VERY experienced at litigating cases like yours. You won’t have a chance on your own. You need to find a lawyer experienced in this specific area of law. It’s good that you’ve done your research. That will help you when you interview lawyers and as the case proceeds.

No, I’m not a lawyer but I’ve lived long enough to know when it makes sense to hire an experienced professional.
Actually, the company's team of staff lawyers can't litigate in court.

Tomtech, who your friend will be up against is an experienced team of TRIAL lawyers (there is a difference you may not have discerned) in the appropriate venue that are retained by the liability insurance carriers of the property owners, device manufacturers, installers, maintenance service companies, etc., etc. They are not rookies and they have databases full of recognized, even trial-tested technical and medical experts at their disposal.

Last I heard, less than 90% of personal injury cases ever get to trial. Most are resolved in mediation.

IMHO, find an attorney who is highly adept at mediation in personal injury cases.
“Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.”
Walter Lippmann

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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#35

Post by Sam the Centipede » Fri May 03, 2019 4:38 am

Off Topic
I'm disappointed that nobody has suggested that Michael Avenatti might be the man for the job! :-D :-D
Good luck TomTech, I feel your pain, but I think the uniformity of the, ah, non-advice (gotta be ethical!) above suggests that an adjustment of your strategy is needed if you want to maximize your chances of success, not just prove a point. I'm no lawyer, but I certainly think TomTech pro se v. Big Company only ends in expensive disappointment, regardless of your technical expertise.

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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#36

Post by boots » Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:38 pm

SLQ wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:46 pm
Mikedunford wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:58 am
You need to get a lawyer. And you need to listen to that lawyer, with as few presumptions about your own legal knowledge as you can manage.
This. ^^ Attorneys are loathe to take a case that they fear will be micromanaged by a client, or in this case the lay expert for a client. The ethical rules put strategy (including which causes of action to pursue) squarely in the hands of the lawyer. I can say from previous experience that I have withdrawn from a case when my vision of the case and my client's vision were not congruent. (In response to my very vague but required motion to withdraw, this client actually made an analogy to hiring someone to mow your lawn. The client said that I was to follow instructions about exactly how the lawn was to be mowed, what pattern, what time, etc. My reply said, "Yeah, that's not how it works, and this is reason enough for me to be permitted to withdraw." I got my withdrawal, which the judge had previoiusly denied because he believed the client needed representation. (The client did need representation, but after the lawn mower analogy, it could not be me.)
Yep. I think this guy needs to hire a competent lawyer with a history of successfully litigating elevator cases, which he can probably find with a google search, and then change his approach to one of hands-off.

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Northland10
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#37

Post by Northland10 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:32 pm

neonzx wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 6:32 am
You need a lawyer.

Reading your draft complaint, it is obvious you are very emotionally involved. An attorney can remove the emotions of a client from the case and stay on-point with the facts and in legal lanes. Best of luck. :towel:
This is why I would also suggest a lawyer never represent themselves. if Tom were a lawyer, I would still suggest he get a lawyer.
North-land: of the family 10

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Princess foofypants
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#38

Post by Princess foofypants » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:28 pm

Several years ago I was injured at a retail store, badly enough to require an ambulance and a “gazillion” stitches. Despite having attended law school and despite virtually every member of my family being an attorney we got a non-family attorney who specialized in my type of injury then shut up and let his firm do the work. I got a fair settlement.

I suggest you file away your complaint as an interesting writing exercise, find an attorney and listen to them. And if you are having trouble finding attorneys who want to take your case think long and hard about proceeding. Attorneys take cases they think they can win. If they aren’t eager to take yours there may be a reason.

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realist
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#39

Post by realist » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:44 pm

It seems your main problem is not that you are not willing to hire an attorney but your main problem with the attorneys you’ve Interviewed refuse to pursue the litigation in the manner you wish it pursued.

If you find an attorney willing to do that, RUN not walk, away.
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neonzx
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#40

Post by neonzx » Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:58 pm

realist wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:44 pm
It seems your main problem is not that you are not willing to hire an attorney but your main problem with the attorneys you’ve Interviewed refuse to pursue the litigation in the manner you wish it pursued.

If you find an attorney willing to do that, RUN not walk, away.
Yes, and Amen. I've been in civil litigation as the plaintiff. And at times I would bitch and moan to my counsel -- "What? But why can't we do this? or that? But they are wrong!! This isn't FAIR!"

An attorney isn't going to pursue bad avenues of litigation. Well, unless you hire Larry Klayman, Avenatti, or similar perhaps.
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Hurtzi
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#41

Post by Hurtzi » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:42 am

Tom can't here you, he last visited May 02. I guess he doesn't like your advices.

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Mikedunford
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#42

Post by Mikedunford » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:16 pm

Sometimes what people need to know is different from what they want to hear.
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
--Lord Thomas Henry Bingham to Boris Johnson, on being asked whether he would miss being in "the best club in London" if the Law Lords moved from Parliament to a Supreme Court.

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Hurtzi
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Re: Comments solicited Family v $80B company

#43

Post by Hurtzi » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:59 am

I am just a poor boy
Though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance
For a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises
All lies and jests
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest

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