DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1051

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Sounds like small potatoes compared with Epstein's crimes. The continued fascination with Epstein's financial machinations, no matter how inconsequential, is Epstein porn.

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Res Ipsa
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1052

Post by Res Ipsa »

Hurtzi wrote:
Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:07 am

Can someone explain this, pls?
Giuffre has been calling Dershowitz a child molester for many years. Dershowitz calls her a liar. Hence, Giuffre is suing Dershowitz for defamation.

That setup is the classic Allred/Bloom method of pursuing time-barred claims against people. Make a public accusation, have the subject deny it, and then threaten the subject with a defamation suit for calling the accuser a liar. Regardless of whether the accusation is true, or whether the accuser has suffered any compensable harm because someone accused of being a rapist says they are not, litigation will be expensive, and will drag out irrelevant, but nonetheless salacious, dirty laundry in the process. Hence, the bet is that the subject will pay something to avoid further expense or embarrassment. It works.

In this instance, Dershowitz called Giuffre a liar the first time she made these accusations, quite a number of years ago. So many years ago, in fact, that she can no longer sue him for initially calling her a liar, because the statute of limitations has expired.

So, Dershowitz is claiming that his statement to the effect she is a liar is immune from defamation liability for essentially two reasons:

(1) One has the right to defend oneself against public accusations. There is a qualified privilege in statements made in self defense. Looking at this proportionately, she has accused him of being a child molester. He has responded by saying she is a liar. One wonders what economic harm she has suffered as a consequence of him saying that, but the point is that he is calling her a liar in defense of himself against an unproven accusation of being a child molester. The rationale is, essentially, "What do you expect someone to say if they are accused of being a child molester?" It's not about whether or not it is true, but there is nothing remarkable about someone denying such an accusation.

(2) He has been calling her a liar for a very long time. So long, in fact, that she can no longer sue him for initially having called her a liar. So the second argument is essentially that there is no additional liability for merely repeating statements over which she cannot premise a suit in the first place.

Here's the memo:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov ... 8.23.0.pdf

I.GIUFFRE’S CLAIMS ARE TIME-BARRED UNDER THE APPLICABLE ONE YEAR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS BECAUSE THEY ARE IDENTICAL IN SUBSTANCE TO STATEMENTS WHICH PROF. DERSHOWITZ FIRST PUBLISHED TO A GLOBAL AUDIENCE MORE THAN FOUR YEARS AGO

a.Under the “Single Publication Rule,” the Statute of Limitations for Defamation Actions Begin to Run from the Date of First Publication

b.As the Complaint Alleges, Prof. Dershowitz First Published the Allegedly Defamatory Statements in 2015, More Than Four Years Prior to the Filing of the Complaint

c.Prof. Dershowitz’s Recent Statements Do Not Constitute a “Republication” Triggering a New Limitations Period Because They Reached the Same Global Audience as His Original 2015 Statements

II.PROF. DERSHOWITZ’S STATEMENTS DEFENDING HIMSELF AGAINST SCURRILOUS ALLEGATIONS OF CHILD SEX ABUSE ARE PROTECTED BY THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE SELF-DEFENSE PRIVILEGE

----

Finally, that memorandum was filed on June 25. To the extent that someone on Twitter is posting that as "NEW" in late September, then one may make a note that such person is not well informed.
Thanks pal.

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Hurtzi
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1053

Post by Hurtzi »

Thank you.
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Kendra
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1054

Post by Kendra »

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/busi ... trust.html
Jeffrey Epstein’s biggest client had deserted him, his money management firm had lost more than $150 million during the financial crisis, and he was a registered sex offender. But after he started a new company with a wildly speculative business plan in 2012, Mr. Epstein had no problem pulling in cash.

His start-up, Southern Trust, reported more than $200 million in revenues over the next five years, according to a review of previously unreported financial statements filed in the Virgin Islands.

Despite a name that calls to mind a financial services firm, the fledgling company with a handful of employees said it was developing a DNA data-mining service. Southern Trust was trying to gauge customers’ predisposition to cancer by “basically organizing mathematical algorithms,” Mr. Epstein told Virgin Islands officials as he sought a lucrative tax break in 2012.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1055

Post by Whatever4 »

Kendra wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:19 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/busi ... trust.html
Jeffrey Epstein’s biggest client had deserted him, his money management firm had lost more than $150 million during the financial crisis, and he was a registered sex offender. But after he started a new company with a wildly speculative business plan in 2012, Mr. Epstein had no problem pulling in cash.

His start-up, Southern Trust, reported more than $200 million in revenues over the next five years, according to a review of previously unreported financial statements filed in the Virgin Islands.

Despite a name that calls to mind a financial services firm, the fledgling company with a handful of employees said it was developing a DNA data-mining service. Southern Trust was trying to gauge customers’ predisposition to cancer by “basically organizing mathematical algorithms,” Mr. Epstein told Virgin Islands officials as he sought a lucrative tax break in 2012.
Paging Slarti...
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1056

Post by Somerset »

Whatever4 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:39 pm
Kendra wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:19 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/03/busi ... trust.html
Jeffrey Epstein’s biggest client had deserted him, his money management firm had lost more than $150 million during the financial crisis, and he was a registered sex offender. But after he started a new company with a wildly speculative business plan in 2012, Mr. Epstein had no problem pulling in cash.

His start-up, Southern Trust, reported more than $200 million in revenues over the next five years, according to a review of previously unreported financial statements filed in the Virgin Islands.

Despite a name that calls to mind a financial services firm, the fledgling company with a handful of employees said it was developing a DNA data-mining service. Southern Trust was trying to gauge customers’ predisposition to cancer by “basically organizing mathematical algorithms,” Mr. Epstein told Virgin Islands officials as he sought a lucrative tax break in 2012.
Paging Slarti...
Please, no ;)

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1057

Post by Whatever4 »

Somerset wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:40 pm
Whatever4 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:39 pm
Paging Slarti...
Please, no ;)
:rotflmao:
"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1058

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

:like:

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1059

Post by Kendra »

Jeffrey Epstein’s former friend and associate Jean-Luc Brunel is ready to talk to police as part of the Paris prosecutors' investigation, according to a statement issued by his lawyer Monday, per @SaskyaCNN.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1060

Post by Volkonski »

Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Kendra
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1061

Post by Kendra »

Also:

Shortly after CNN reported Jeffrey Epstein’s former friend and associate Jean-Luc Brunel's ready to talk to French police, there's a sealed filing on the Epstein docket.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1062

Post by DejaMoo »

Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicide, Dr. Michael Baden reveals
The body of disgraced money man and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who was found dead in his Manhattan federal prison cell in August, bore telltale signs of homicide despite an official ruling that he killed himself, a pioneering forensic pathologist revealed to “Fox & Friends” in an exclusive interview Wednesday.

The bombshell claim by Dr. Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner who has worked on high-profile cases during a five-decade medical career, is certain to reignite suspicions that surfaced immediately after Epstein, who was awaiting trial on federal sex-trafficking charges involving underage girls, was discovered dead in his cell on Aug. 10. Baden, who was hired by Epstein’s brother and observed the autopsy, told Fox News its findings are more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging. He noted that the 66-year-old Epstein had two fractures on the left and right sides of his larynx, specifically the thyroid cartilage or Adam’s apple, as well as one fracture on the left hyoid bone above the Adam’s apple, Baden told Fox News.

“Those three fractures are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation,” Baden, who is also a Fox News contributor, said.

“I’ve not seen in 50 years where that occurred in a suicidal hanging case,” the 85-year-old medical legend told Fox News.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1063

Post by TexasFilly »

The "medical legend" has a checkered career (to put it mildly). His gun-for-hire testimony hasn't been very good in the last few decades.
I love the poorly educated!!!

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1064

Post by p0rtia »

Baden is a fucking moron. I have no idea what happened to Epstein, but I know that Baden is not to be believed either way when it comes to a question of suicide v homicide.

Baden's the dude who decided that Phil Spector didn't stick a gun in Lana Clarson's mouth and shoot her -- that was just Lana committing suicide in Spector's foyer. With her purse over her shoulder. With his gun that she didn't know about. Because, reasons.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1065

Post by Sugar Magnolia »

p0rtia wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:51 am
Baden is a fucking moron. I have no idea what happened to Epstein, but I know that Baden is not to be believed either way when it comes to a question of suicide v homicide.

Baden's the dude who decided that Phil Spector didn't stick a gun in Lana Clarson's mouth and shoot her -- that was just Lana committing suicide in Spector's foyer. With her purse over her shoulder. With his gun that she didn't know about. Because, reasons.
Lot$ of rea$ons.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1066

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Michael Baden is to autopsy what Ronald (McDonald) Rotunda was to ethics. Nothing more than a hired gun.

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p0rtia
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1067

Post by p0rtia »

I was going to say: Baden is to medical expert witnesses as Allred is to attorneys who are experts in sex abuse.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1068

Post by p0rtia »

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:54 am
p0rtia wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:51 am
Baden is a fucking moron. I have no idea what happened to Epstein, but I know that Baden is not to be believed either way when it comes to a question of suicide v homicide.

Baden's the dude who decided that Phil Spector didn't stick a gun in Lana Clarson's mouth and shoot her -- that was just Lana committing suicide in Spector's foyer. With her purse over her shoulder. With his gun that she didn't know about. Because, reasons.
Lot$ of rea$ons.
His Moment of Epiphany when he "realized" that the reason Lana's legs were stretched in front of her (as if she had died straining backwards in terror in the chair) was because of involuntary movement after the bullet severed her spinal chord was a classic.

I believe he's also the one who said Spector couldn't have put the gun in her mouth because Lana would have just pushed the gun away. He gave a thrilling courtroom presentation in which he mimed raising his hands on either side of a gun and pushing. He stated (and here's the punch line) that it was easy to do, and that he had done it several time in his life.

:sick:
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1069

Post by bob »

TexasFilly wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:50 am
The "medical legend" has a checkered career (to put it mildly). His gun-for-hire testimony hasn't been very good in the last few decades.
Concur.

:silenced:
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1070

Post by Kendra »


#JeffreyEpstein: few facts 1.We knew already -through JE’s attorneys- that Dr. #Baden believed the #autopsy findings were more consistent with homicide 2. Accusers are fighting to get his estate and this makes it harder for them 3. Dr. Baden was hired by JE’s brother #MarkEpstein

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1071

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Kendra wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:25 pm

#JeffreyEpstein: few facts 1.We knew already -through JE’s attorneys- that Dr. #Baden believed the #autopsy findings were more consistent with homicide 2. Accusers are fighting to get his estate and this makes it harder for them 3. Dr. Baden was hired by JE’s brother #MarkEpstein
:confused:

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1072

Post by bob »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:06 pm
:confused:
I infer the thesis is: If there's a possibility that one of Epstein's heirs is responsible for his death, then probate will be delayed, to ensure that the malicious heir(s) doesn't inherit.
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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1073

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

As a trial lawyer I don't equate "harder" with "longer." It's going to be a long haul no matter what. Probably in Bankruptcy Court. And I can't see how a potential Epstein heir could be liable.

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1074

Post by neonzx »

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:29 pm
As a trial lawyer I don't equate "harder" with "longer." It's going to be a long haul no matter what. Probably in Bankruptcy Court. And I can't see how a potential Epstein heir could be liable.
That is where my thinking was.. these heirs aren't going to see a dime from the estate for a very long time (if ever) anyway. So what's the point of complicating further?

Where is Columbo when we need him? :smoking:

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Re: DOJ Investigation: Re Jeffrey Epstein Plea Deal; 2008 SDFL; 2019 SDNY

#1075

Post by fierceredpanda »

Despite my law degree, I know less than nothing about probate practice. Could someone explain how the possibility of homicide would complicate probate proceedings? I thought the point of probate was to efficiently disperse the decedent's estate, not punish the commission of crimes.
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