Border Patrol and Interior Transit

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Addie
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Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#1

Post by Addie » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:42 am

WaPo
As Border Patrol searches its buses, Greyhound is pulled into immigration uproar ...

It is here - between the rows of seats on Greyhound buses and at stations across the country - that America's policies and fraught divisions over immigration are also playing out. The private bus line says it is caught in the middle of an ugly issue beyond its control.

But legislators and justice groups argue that by allowing Border Patrol to conduct the immigration checks, Greyhound exposes its passengers to violations of their constitutional rights to be free from racial profiling, harassment and warrantless searches and seizures. ...

Gipson cited a series of laws with which she said Greyhound must comply when it comes to immigration checks on buses. They include the statutory provision saying that any immigration officer has the power to board buses and search for undocumented riders without a warrant "within a reasonable distance from any external boundary of the United States" to prevent unlawful entry.

The federal government defines a "reasonable distance" as 100 air miles from the U.S.'s external borders, land or maritime. According to the ACLU, Border Patrol's claimed authority to board a bus or train without a warrant within that zone encompasses two-thirds of the U.S. population (about 200 million people) most of the country's 10 largest cities and some entire states.

The ACLU and legislators argue that the law only authorizes agents to search for undocumented immigrants on buses so long as those agents comply with the Constitution, which has priority over any congressional statute. Doing so, according to a Supreme Court case cited by the ACLU and members of Congress, requires Border Patrol to either have probable cause for a search or have Greyhound's explicit consent to board and search.


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#2

Post by Addie » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:04 pm

Bangor Daily News
Border patrol agents question drivers at I-95 checkpoint about citizenship

U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents set up a checkpoint Wednesday on Interstate 95, stopping drivers and asking them questions about their citizenship before letting them proceed.

The random checkpoint shut down the southbound lane between the Penobscot County towns of Howland and Lincoln. Several agents set up cones blocking the highway, and then asked vehicle occupants questions about their citizenship. Southbound drivers could not avoid the roadblock.

“If you want to continue down the road, then yes ma’am. We need to know what citizen — what country you’re a citizen of,” an agent said Wednesday evening. When questioned about what would happen if a driver declined to answer, he said the car would only be able to keep going if, after further questioning and upon the agent’s judgment, “the agent is pretty sure that you’re U.S. citizens.”

These routine checkpoints are similar to immigration checks that border agents are performing at Maine bus stops, where agents have been captured on video asking riders about their citizenship, said Stephanie Malin, a CBP spokeswoman.

In recent months, the bus stop checks have come under fire from the Maine American Civil Liberties Union, which is suing the federal agency for records to learn more about the practice. Lawyers for the Maine ACLU said they have questions concerning “the intrusive operation,” and whether it infringes on the Fourth and Fifth amendment rights of bus passengers.


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#3

Post by Addie » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:02 am

CNN
Border patrol agents are stopping people on highways in New England to check their citizenship

(CNN) Far from ground zero in the Trump administration's crackdown on illegal immigration along the southern border, US Customs and Border Protection checkpoints on highways in Maine and New Hampshire are catching the eye of civil liberties groups.

On Interstate 95 near the remote northern Maine town of Lincoln this week, the Border Patrol said it made nine drug seizures and two arrests for immigration violations during an 11-hour checkpoint operation in which agents asked motorists about their place of birth and citizenship status.

The federal agency -- one of several at the center of a growing humanitarian crisis involving 2,300 children separated from their parents at the Mexico border -- said in a statement that Wednesday's checkpoint in Maine was "a means of preventing smuggling organizations from exploiting existing transportation systems to travel to the interior of the United States."

Customs and Border Protection says the US Supreme Court has affirmed the agency's ability to ask motorists' citizenship status, even if they have no suspicion. Agents use training and questions to make decisions about a traveler's citizenship or residency, it said. ...

"Travelers have the right to remain silent," it said in a statement. "Travelers who cooperate are passed through quickly, unless the agent suspects they are in violation of federal law. Travelers who refuse to cooperate may be referred to a secondary examination area to allow agents to conduct additional questioning to determine the traveler's citizenship or residency."


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#4

Post by Danraft » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:06 am

Is Border Patrol under DHS?
They're getting a little full of themselves and acting like we are under serious attack.

This imaginary attacker must be power to have world's mightiest nation scared of brown children.

On a side note.... remember th whole kartuffle about Obama admin purchasing "MILLIONS OF BULLETS" I think it would be interesting to know what DHS and other orgs are purchasing right now.
Where would that be?
I'm betting some interesting (and scary) surprises are waiting...


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#5

Post by vic » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:05 pm

Danraft wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:06 am
Is Border Patrol under DHS?
They're getting a little full of themselves and acting like we are under serious attack.

This imaginary attacker must be power to have world's mightiest nation scared of brown children.

On a side note.... remember th whole kartuffle about Obama admin purchasing "MILLIONS OF BULLETS" I think it would be interesting to know what DHS and other orgs are purchasing right now.
Where would that be?
I'm betting some interesting (and scary) surprises are waiting...
I've been wondering about that. There are permanent checkpoints on I5 and I15 north of San Diego. I haven't driven through there in a year or so, but much of the time, especially the I15 one, they weren't even manned. And when they were, they often just waved you through or maybe asked one question. And they seemed (to this freckled white person) to be friendly. It's been a long time since I travelled internationally, but virtually all the encounters with CBP were polite and friendly. The only times I had any problems at all were at the U S Customs checkpoint in Toronto, for some reason.

But it seems that ever since DOTUS took over, they've become as you say. I've been using a different description - sadistic. I wonder whether this has been simmering under the surface and been released by the current administration, or if this is direction given from above.



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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#6

Post by Addie » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:02 pm

Maine Public Radio
ACLU Lawyer Says Border Patrol's Random Stops Are An 'Intrusion On Personal Liberties' ...

Emma Bond: “This regulation dates back to the early 1950s when CBP (U.S. Customs and Border Protection) was a vastly different agency. Since then it has increased in size, number of agents and budget. And so the intrusion on personal liberties is just that much greater.

And frankly this regulation never made sense because it is not within a reasonable distance of the border to say that it includes all of Maine, most of New England and two-thirds of the population of this country. And we do have reports that immigration enforcement in this 100-mile zone has been on the increase.”

Flaherty: “Your organization publishes a “Know Your Rights” brochure for people who might be stopped. Can you tell me what's on that brochure?”

Bond: “Sure. This is a complicated area of law, but if you find yourself stopped by a CBP agent there are three basic things you should know. First you can tell them that you are invoking your right to remain silent, and then remain silent. Second you can tell them ‘I do not consent to a search.’ And third you can say as many times as you want you can ask: Am I free to leave? And once the officer says you are, you should leave. Aside from your immediate engagement with the officer, you can record your engagement with the officer and post it on social media. You can speak out in your community against these practices.”


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#7

Post by TollandRCR » Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:13 pm

This is very sound legal advice on how to deal with being stopped by CBP or ICE. Do we know anything about how those agents will respond? I think lawlessness and arrogance and wonder if these sound methods will backfire.


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#8

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:25 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:13 pm
This is very sound legal advice on how to deal with being stopped by CBP or ICE. Do we know anything about how those agents will respond? I think lawlessness and arrogance and wonder if these sound methods will backfire.
They respond at the regular ceckpoints as demonstrated in those various Youtube clips. Of course the attitude of sovcits and of some 1st Ammendment "auditors" will leave some marks.

From what I see: In general when they don't suspect a non-US citizen to be in the car and don't have a suspicion of contraband they will leave a vehicle pass even when not answering their question. If they get irrate they will call for a canine to sniff, which may take some time if the dos needs to be called in from elsewhere. Sometimes they will send a vehicle to a separate inspection lane and play a game of who has more patience. May also depend on staffing and on traffic conditions at the checkpoint.

The very nasty thing that happened to one 1st Ammendment guy who I follow, the CBP in the state of TX seem to be rather corrupted. They have him blacklisted for his activities at various border crossings. And at one time they stopped this guy at an inland checkpoint, had the K-9 out on his car, pretended to have some suspicious signal from the dog re drugs, asked the guy to leave his car for a search. Then they planted some contraband in his vehicle and had themselves find it. In this case the guy had his car fitted out with cameras and the bad guy was caught red handed.



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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#9

Post by Dan1100 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:36 pm

RTH10260 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:25 pm
TollandRCR wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:13 pm
This is very sound legal advice on how to deal with being stopped by CBP or ICE. Do we know anything about how those agents will respond? I think lawlessness and arrogance and wonder if these sound methods will backfire.
They respond at the regular ceckpoints as demonstrated in those various Youtube clips. Of course the attitude of sovcits and of some 1st Ammendment "auditors" will leave some marks.

From what I see: In general when they don't suspect a non-US citizen to be in the car and don't have a suspicion of contraband they will leave a vehicle pass even when not answering their question. If they get irrate they will call for a canine to sniff, which may take some time if the dos needs to be called in from elsewhere. Sometimes they will send a vehicle to a separate inspection lane and play a game of who has more patience. May also depend on staffing and on traffic conditions at the checkpoint.

The very nasty thing that happened to one 1st Ammendment guy who I follow, the CBP in the state of TX seem to be rather corrupted. They have him blacklisted for his activities at various border crossings. And at one time they stopped this guy at an inland checkpoint, had the K-9 out on his car, pretended to have some suspicious signal from the dog re drugs, asked the guy to leave his car for a search. Then they planted some contraband in his vehicle and had themselves find it. In this case the guy had his car fitted out with cameras and the bad guy was caught red handed.
There are two different things here. Giving them all benefit of the doubt, if they think there is an undocumented alien in the car, then they can investigate that, ask questions about that, and detain someone they think is undocumented. But, what give them any right to pull someone over without probable cause, have a dog sniff their car, and then bust them for weed? Unless their dogs sniff out illegal aliens, what are they doing with dogs anyway?


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#10

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:45 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:36 pm
► Show Spoiler
There are two different things here. Giving them all benefit of the doubt, if they think there is an undocumented alien in the car, then they can investigate that, ask questions about that, and detain someone they think is undocumented. But, what give them any right to pull someone over without probable cause, have a dog sniff their car, and then bust them for weed? Unless their dogs sniff out illegal aliens, what are they doing with dogs anyway?
The checkpoints are for detecting illegals, likely more by chance at the fixed checkpoints, and then to discover contraband, especially drugs. For that they keep a sniffer dog in reach. It's not just about weed.



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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#11

Post by Dan1100 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:03 pm

RTH10260 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:45 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:36 pm
► Show Spoiler
There are two different things here. Giving them all benefit of the doubt, if they think there is an undocumented alien in the car, then they can investigate that, ask questions about that, and detain someone they think is undocumented. But, what give them any right to pull someone over without probable cause, have a dog sniff their car, and then bust them for weed? Unless their dogs sniff out illegal aliens, what are they doing with dogs anyway?
The checkpoints are for detecting illegals, likely more by chance at the fixed checkpoints, and then to discover contraband, especially drugs. For that they keep a sniffer dog in reach. It's not just about weed.
No other police officer can stop you without probably case, have a dog sniff your car, and then search your car in case you "by chance" have contraband.


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#12

Post by Dolly » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:27 pm

THE CONSTITUTION IN THE 100-MILE BORDER ZONE
..........
Even in places far removed from the border, deep into the interior of the country, immigration officials enjoy broad—though not limitless—powers. Specifically, federal regulations give U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) authority to operate within 100 miles of any U.S. "external boundary."

In this 100-mile zone, Border Patrol agents have certain additional authorities. For instance, Border Patrol can operate immigration checkpoints.

Border Patrol, nevertheless, cannot pull anyone over without "reasonable suspicion" of an immigration violation or crime (reasonable suspicion is more than just a "hunch"). Similarly, Border Patrol cannot search vehicles in the 100-mile zone without a warrant or "probable cause" (a reasonable belief, based on the circumstances, that an immigration violation or crime has likely occurred).
<snip>
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution ... order-zone


Several years ago, we used to live further East in San Diego County, about half way from San Diego to El Centro. We would go through the Check Point on Interstate 8. They had a sign that displayed how many "illegals" were captured (don't remember the correct wording), how much drugs were discovered, and don't remember what else. I think there were 3 or 4 catagories.
For a while, there was also another Check Point between Jacumba and El Centro on I8. Don't know if it is still there.
Jacumba is right on the US / Mexican border.

EDIT to explain better.
We have started going to Tecate, Mexico again. We can drive straight there without stopping at a Check Point. When we return, there is a Check Point on Hwy 94, a two lane road in the country. Since there is not as much traffic as I8, it doesn't take long. Usually we are just waved through. Two older white folks in a little red Miata sportscar. A few times, I have seen a German Shepherd dog in a kennel, in the shade.

It had been a year or so since we had gone to Tecate. We used to walk in most of the time. Recently we started driving. Now you can not just drive in like before. There are three lanes (reminds me of drive through banking and not all three are always open). When you drive in there is a stop. They snap a picture which probably gets the license plate. When the light says you can go/continue, there is another light at the end of the little driveway. If it is green, you can continue driving out of the area through a wall/fence. If it is red, you are supposed to pull over so you can be "inspected" or questioned.
We messed up the first time and starting to drive away. OOPS. They yelled and called us over. They have always been polite but it is different (since TRUMP?).

On the return, a few times were were able to drive down the row and go straight to the US Customs booths.
Sometimes we have had to wait in line an hour or a little more, to drive (sometimes in a single line, sometimes double)
I think the car gets photographed two times while you are in the Booth area. Once from the back and again a front view. I hear a noise when we are close. A couple of times, they have had a dog sniffing cars. I don't remember our car getting that treatment. Once the agent and dog were just standing by my passenger door.


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#13

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:19 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:03 pm
RTH10260 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:45 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:36 pm
► Show Spoiler
There are two different things here. Giving them all benefit of the doubt, if they think there is an undocumented alien in the car, then they can investigate that, ask questions about that, and detain someone they think is undocumented. But, what give them any right to pull someone over without probable cause, have a dog sniff their car, and then bust them for weed? Unless their dogs sniff out illegal aliens, what are they doing with dogs anyway?
The checkpoints are for detecting illegals, likely more by chance at the fixed checkpoints, and then to discover contraband, especially drugs. For that they keep a sniffer dog in reach. It's not just about weed.
No other police officer can stop you without probably case, have a dog sniff your car, and then search your car in case you "by chance" have contraband.
Actually, as long as the cops follow the guidelines, they can at roadblocks. Lots of specific rules that I can't remember all of, but it's something like you have to stop 3, let 2 pass, or stop every third car, or stop 10, let 10 pass.....Whatever the configuration you decide on it has to be submitted in advance and then you have to follow that same pattern for the whole time. We occasionally had K9s at the checkpoints (we couldn't call them roadblocks) that did a quick "duck and run" around the car while we were checking the DL. If the dog alerted, that was the probable cause for a further search. If for some reason the driver was arrested (no DL and they got mouthy, outstanding warrants) and the car was towed, we had to do an inventory of all contents, including the trunk. The moral of the story is, don't have your car towed if you have a dead hooker in the trunk.

I hated checkpoints so I always volunteered to be the turn-around car that sat in the shadows 2 blocks back and waited for people to turn around trying to avoid the highly visible checkpoint.



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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#14

Post by Foggy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:50 am

I hated checkpoints so I always volunteered to be the turn-around car that sat in the shadows 2 blocks back and waited for people to turn around trying to avoid the highly visible checkpoint.
Y'all DO understand (stand under), I hope, that those who turn around are self-identifying as those who do, in fact, have a dead hooker in the trunk. Or something else unlegal that would prevent them from successfully navigating the checkpoint.

Them other coppers might sit all night doing 1 of 3 or 10 and 10, and not figure out all the perps sneakin' through on a combination of bluff and precautions. But every single one of the ones Sugar M. got to stop had already broadcasted "Me! Pull me over! I'm doin' sumpin' very, very wrong here!"

:mememe:


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#15

Post by Addie » Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:01 pm

New Hampshire Public Radio: Family Vacationing In N.H. Reeling After Arrest At Checkpoint 90 Miles From The Border


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#16

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:21 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:19 pm

The moral of the story is, don't have your car towed if you have a dead hooker in the trunk.
Is there an actual story there? Because I’d believe it.


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#17

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Whatever4 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:21 pm
Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:19 pm

The moral of the story is, don't have your car towed if you have a dead hooker in the trunk.
Is there an actual story there? Because I’d believe it.
Well, it wasn't ever definitively proven she was a hooker, nor was she ever identified as far as I know, because she wasn't all there. Literally.

p.s. I'm not the one who caught that particular vehicle. The worst I ever found was a trunk full of blood and ummmm....gore, but that was most likely from a dog fighting incident.



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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#18

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:34 pm

I swear you should do a podcast of Southern stories. :daydream:


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#19

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:38 pm

Whatever4 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:34 pm
I swear you should do a podcast of Southern stories. :daydream:
Off Topic
Ah....you must not remember the last time I was on the radio for the RC show and how badly that ended. I honestly think that's the only time I have ever thrown someone out of my house. :shock:



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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#20

Post by Whatever4 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:47 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:38 pm
Whatever4 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:34 pm
I swear you should do a podcast of Southern stories. :daydream:
Off Topic
Ah....you must not remember the last time I was on the radio for the RC show and how badly that ended. I honestly think that's the only time I have ever thrown someone out of my house. :shock:
Well, as I was there.... they deserved it.


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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#21

Post by Addie » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:37 am

NPR
Federal Agents Board Buses 100 Miles From Border To Ask, Are You A U.S. Citizen?

When people are crossing a U.S. border, they expect to be asked about their citizenship. But not when they're driving up the East Coast.

U.S. Border Patrol agents are boarding buses from private lines like Greyhound and Concord Coach within 100 miles of a U.S. border, asking passengers if they're American citizens. It turns out agents are empowered to do this through a little-known law called the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. There are more and more reports of officers stopping cars and buses.

Here's what happens, according to Dennis Harmon, division chief for the Border Patrol Houlton sector in Maine. Border Patrol agents set up immigration checkpoints on highways within 100 miles of a U.S. border. They stop every vehicle traveling on the road, and ask each person if they are a U.S. citizen. If the person replies, 'Yes,' they are a citizen, in most cases, they are free to go.

"If they are a citizen of the United States, there is no law or regulation that requires them to carry identification saying they're a citizen," Harmon tells Here & Now's Peter O'Dowd. "That simple verbal declaration of 'I was born in Lewiston, Maine, or Sioux Falls,' and that proves they're a United States citizen."

But it's up to the discretion of the officer to believe that the person is really a citizen. While U.S. citizens do not have to show officers documentation to prove they are a citizen, Harmon says non-U.S. citizens who have legal status are required by law to carry their papers.



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Re: Border Patrol and Interior Transit

#22

Post by Mr Pfister » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:02 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:19 pm
Actually, as long as the cops follow the guidelines, they can at roadblocks. Lots of specific rules that I can't remember all of, but it's something like you have to stop 3, let 2 pass, or stop every third car, or stop 10, let 10 pass.....Whatever the configuration you decide on it has to be submitted in advance and then you have to follow that same pattern for the whole time.
In my State this is not permitted by "locals". The "DUI Checkpoints" which is what was attempted in early 80's were quickly banned by our State Supreme Court.

We are a border state and the Immigration stops are allowed, but there have been some well publicized events that have drawn a solid line between Immigration Checks done by US Agencies (permitted) and any other kind of "check point" performed for any other reason (not permitted).



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