2020 Census Citizenship question

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2020 Census Citizenship question

#1

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:18 am

https://shareblue.com/fox-news-host-bri ... ution/amp/?
Fox News host crushed to learn ‘Constitution might be on California’s side’

While debating the issue with Fox News legal expert Judge Andrew Napolitano, co-host Brian Kilmeade brought out the big guns, attempting to settle things with a reading of the U.S. Constitution.

“All right, the U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 2, Judge, is? Requires the census count everyone in the U.S!” Kilmeade said.

“Count!” Napolitano replied. “Not ask how many toilets you have or what your ethnic background is, but count. How many people live in the house?”

“Even if they’re here illegally?” Kilmeade asked.

“Yes,” Napolitano answered.

“So the Constitution might be on California’s side?” Kilmeade asked.

“Yes,” Napolitano said.
See also, too https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... ecbe803565
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#2

Post by NMgirl » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:28 am

Thanks for creating this thread. Lots of interesting lawsuits coming up. Yum.
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#3

Post by Addie » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 am

National Democratic Redistricting Committee
Holder Statement on the Trump Administration’s Decision to Include a Citizenship Question on the 2020 Census

March 27, 2018

Washington, D.C. — Today, Eric H. Holder, Jr., 82nd Attorney General of the United States and Chairman of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee (NDRC), released the following statement on the Commerce Department’s decision to include a citizenship question on the 2020 Census.

“We will litigate to stop the Administration from moving forward with this irresponsible decision. The addition of a citizenship question to the census questionnaire is a direct attack on our representative democracy. This question will lower the response rate and undermine the accuracy of the count, leading to devastating, decade-long impacts on voting rights and the distribution of billions of dollars in federal funding. By asking this question, states will not have accurate representation and individuals in impacted communities will lose out on state and federal funding for health care, education, and infrastructure.

“Contrary to the Administration’s stated rationale, asking the citizenship question on the census is not critical to enforcing the Voting Rights Act. As attorney general, I did not—nor did my predecessors—request the addition of a citizenship question to the decennial census to enforce the VRA. We did not need to: Data derived from the existing census process was perfectly adequate for any voting litigation that arose.

“Make no mistake – this decision is motivated purely by politics. In deciding to add this question without even testing its effects, the Administration is departing from decades of census policy and ignoring the warnings of census experts.”
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#4

Post by NMgirl » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:39 am

Link to Wilbur Ross' justification for the citizenship question:

https://www.commerce.gov/sites/commerce ... 3-26_2.pdf
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#5

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:42 am

NMgirl wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:28 am
Thanks for creating this thread. Lots of interesting lawsuits coming up. Yum.
:thumbs:
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#6

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:46 am

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/p ... ssion=true
The New Census Question Is Fundamental Conservative Vandalism
The country stopped asking the citizenship question in 1950. Things have rocked right along swimmingly without it.


Oh, look. Somebody woke up Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross and told ol’ Wilbur that it was his turn to be a useful tool of the local oligarchy. It’s not too early to think about the 2020 census, especially if you suspect that your brand is going so rancid that you might not have the control of it that you had in 2010.

Right from the start—“and three-fifths of all other persons”—this country has made a botch of its demographics as regards to representation in the national legislature. As citizenship, and the franchise, have expanded through the years, the forces of reaction have had to get increasingly creative. This is one of their latest and greatest.

The country stopped asking the citizenship question on the census in 1950, before I was born. Things have rocked right along swimmingly without it. But now it’s all blended in with the general conservative attack on the franchise and the sudden conservative devotion to the rigged wheel on election day, so it’s time for the question to make a comeback.

After all, this is the administration* that tried to put a guy in charge of the census who wrote a paper about why competitive elections are bad for America, and also one that refused to hire non-citizen census takers. So it’s pretty clear that they woke Wilbur up as part of an ongoing attempt to use the census to ratfck upcoming elections.
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#7

Post by NMgirl » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:57 am

NY AG Schneiderman's press release:
Attorney General Schneiderman To Lead Multistate Lawsuit To Preserve Fair And Accurate Census

NEW YORK — New York Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman announced today that he will lead a multistate lawsuit to preserve a fair and accurate Census.

Attorney General Schneiderman released the following statement:

“A fair and accurate count of all people in America is one of the federal government's most solemn constitutional obligations. The Trump Administration's reckless decision to suddenly abandon nearly 70 years of practice by demanding to know the citizenship status of each resident counted cuts to the heart of this sacred obligation – and will create an environment of fear and distrust in immigrant communities that would make impossible both an accurate Census and the fair distribution of federal tax dollars.

This move directly targets states like New York that have large, thriving immigrant populations – threatening billions of dollars in federal funding for New York as well as fair representation in Congress and the Electoral College.
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/attorne ... d-accurate
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#8

Post by NMgirl » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:02 am

California AG Becerra:
California Atty. Gen. Xavier Becerra said the state would sue the Trump administration over its decision to add the citizenship question.
"We're prepared to do what we must to protect California from a deficient census," he said. "Including a citizenship question on the 2020 census is not just a bad idea — it is illegal."
http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-pol- ... story.html
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#9

Post by Kendra » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:05 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:42 am
NMgirl wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:28 am
Thanks for creating this thread. Lots of interesting lawsuits coming up. Yum.
:thumbs:
Yes.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#10

Post by NMgirl » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:15 am

Stern: Come back. My posts are becoming sloppy and ill-thought out.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#11

Post by GreatGrey » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:52 pm

Ummm... there wasn’t a Census in 1965.

I am not "someone upthread".
Trump needs to be smashed into some kind of inedible orange pâté.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#12

Post by Volkonski » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:56 pm


Guardian news

@guardiannews


New York to lead states in suing over citizenship question on census
https://
ebx.sh/2GbrDnB

4:49 PM - Mar 27, 2018
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#13

Post by Volkonski » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:57 pm

GreatGrey wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:52 pm
Ummm... there wasn’t a Census in 1965.

Why bother to find out the facts when you can just invent a lie?
Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
― Leo Tolstoy, War and Peace

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#14

Post by Notorial Dissent » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:04 pm

I hate to break it to the dim and bewildered, and history deficiency, but there was a citizenship question on the census from mid 19th to mid 20th, C. The rub is that the actual names and personal information is SUPPOSED to remain confidential for 50 years, I wouldn't trust this administration with the information or the reason for asking it, and I can see why the states would/should be concerned. I don't know that they have legal standing but I understand why they are doing it.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#15

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:20 pm

I think I understand the arguments. I also think it would be better not to ask about citizenship. But I don't believe it's going to matter in the end, despite all of the machinations on the right and histrionics and litigation on the left.

We shall see.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#16

Post by Suranis » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:40 am

AFAIR there is a citizenship question on the irish census. There is noting particularly bad about asking the question imo, its just that this administration is akin to the scum under your toilet bowl.
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#17

Post by TheNewSaint » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:05 am

GreatGrey wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:52 pm
Ummm... there wasn’t a Census in 1965.
I suspect she means the other types of data gathering the Census performs in off years.
This bramble need not be traversed.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#18

Post by pipistrelle » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:13 am

Suranis wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:40 am
AFAIR there is a citizenship question on the irish census. There is noting particularly bad about asking the question imo, its just that this admisistration is akin tot he scun under your toilet bowl.
But do you have ICE coming after people who don't answer it? Because I could see that happening.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#19

Post by Whip » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:53 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:20 pm
I think I understand the arguments. I also think it would be better not to ask about citizenship. But I don't believe it's going to matter in the end, despite all of the machinations on the right and histrionics and litigation on the left.

We shall see.
agreed. there are people that just round file the form.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#20

Post by Atticus Finch » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:19 am

Instead of asking "Are you a citizen"?, the question should be "Did you vote in a national or state elections within the last 2 years"? If it the Trump's adminstration desire to protect minority voters, then this question will address that issue. Citizenship and voting are two different questions. There are U.S. citizens who have never voted. For example, in the last election in 2016, 90 million U.S. citizens who were eligible to vote did not vote.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#21

Post by Chilidog » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:04 am

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:04 pm
I hate to break it to the dim and bewildered, and history deficiency, but there was a citizenship question on the census from mid 19th to mid 20th, C. The rub is that the actual names and personal information is SUPPOSED to remain confidential for 50 years, I wouldn't trust this administration with the information or the reason for asking it, and I can see why the states would/should be concerned. I don't know that they have legal standing but I understand why they are doing it.
72 years, actually.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#22

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:20 pm

Suranis wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:40 am
AFAIR there is a citizenship question on the irish census. There is noting particularly bad about asking the question imo, its just that this administration is akin to the scum under your toilet bowl.
Except that in this current political climate, people are eagerly and aggressively hounding people who they assume are not here legally, for no better reason than they can report them and ICE will show up and give them hell. For instance, the manager of a local trailer park sent a list of brown-skinned renters that she suspected were illegals to ICE, after a few of them dared complain about the lack of maintenance of the facilities. ICE made a sweep of the park and picked up a couple of the tenants, thus effectively terrorizing the entire community. The manager is positively gleeful. She showed them who's boss, you betcha!
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#23

Post by TollandRCR » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:34 pm

At one time 72 years was a reasonable guess as to when almost everybody enumerated in a Census would be dead of old age. There were always the moonshine-swilling cigar-smoking grannies in the valleys of the Appalachians who would clock in past 100 years, but they were mostly proud of their age and had never done anything of criminal interest except for keeping moonshiners in business. Then there was my Great Aunt Olene (loved her) who gave business to brewers only once a year, on New Year’s Eve and never showed any effect of testing positive for TB exposure (due to what killed her daddy). She made it past 100 without a thing to shame her.

Seriously, there are lots of reasons to think that a question about citizenship will lower response rates in a mail-out mail-back Census. The round file is a problem; false data is a bigger problem. That would be especially true with a Trump ICE. Trump has shown nothing but contempt for immigrants from Mexico and Central America, although that gilded dump Mar-a-lago could probably not survive without them.

It was been shown time and time again that people do not believe the Census Bureau does not and will never share Census data with the IRS, ICE, or any other agency. This fact was weakened by the Census Bureau’s 1941 sharing with the Western military district of the blocks on which a search for persons of Japanese heritage might be fruitful. Leaders of the Census Bureau had rushed to the Bureau that Sunday to begin the report that put many people, including citizens, in camps. This was denied until the 1990s when a UW history professor showed the archival evidence.
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#24

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:44 pm

It's absurd to try to "not count" undocumented immigrants in the census by asking a question that might depress the number of respondents. When federal fiscal allocations for the much-needed resources of a state/county/city don't include the total number of people being provided with various services (regardless of citizenship), the shortage has to be made up from somewhere else, i.e., local taxpayers. Infrastructure gets used by everyone.
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Re: 2020 Census Citizenship question

#25

Post by Notorial Dissent » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:25 pm

The mandate is to count the people living here REGARDLESS of citizenship. I would expect that little concept has been totally missed by the current mal-administration.
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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