Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#26

Post by Addie » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:01 pm

LA Times: Trump foes, questioning his mental fitness, are citing the 25th Amendment. So how does that work?


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#27

Post by Addie » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:40 am

WaPo - Jane Chong and Benjamin Wittes
Constitutional law experts: Congress could impeach Trump on these 3 charges ...

The time for musing has passed. It's now time to begin a serious conversation about the impeachment and removal of President Donald Trump by opening a formal impeachment inquiry.

The evidence of criminality on Trump's part is little clearer today than it was a day, a week, or a month ago. But no conscientious member of the House of Representatives can at this stage fail to share McConnell's doubts about Trump's fundamental fitness for office. As the Trump presidency enters its eighth month, those members of Congress who are serious about their oaths to "support and defend the Constitution" must confront a question.

It's not, in the first instance, whether the president should be removed from office, or even whether he should be impeached. It is merely this: Whether given everything Trump has done, said, tweeted, and indeed been since his inauguration, the House has a duty, as a body, to think about its obligations under the impeachment clauses of the Constitution - that is, whether the House needs to authorize the Judiciary Committee to open a formal inquiry into possible impeachment. ...

In our view, Congress should be evaluating at least three baskets of possible impeachable offenses. There is a good deal of overlap between these classes of misconduct, but they are sufficiently distinct to warrant individual attention:
Trump's abuses of power, most obviously exemplified by his conduct with respect to the investigations into his campaign's collusion with Russia,

his failures of moral leadership, and

his abandonment of the basic duties of his office.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#28

Post by Addie » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:48 pm

WaPo OpEd - Eric Posner
Trump could be removed for political incompetence — using the 25th Amendment

President Trump’s tenure has exposed a defect in our constitutional system: A president can be impeached and removed from office if convicted of high crimes and misdemeanors. He can be removed, under the conventional understanding of the 25th Amendment, if he is incapacitated by mental or physical illness. But there is no obvious solution for a president who has not committed a crime or been disabled by illness, but has lost the confidence of the public because of a failure of temperament, ideology or ability.

The current understanding of the 25th Amendment should be enlarged so as to provide authority to address this problem, through creation of a Presidential Oversight Council empowered to recommend removal of the president on political rather than medical grounds. When both the president’s party and the opposing party lose confidence in the president’s ability to govern, the council would stand ready to evaluate him and make a recommendation to Congress. Congress would be required to vote on its recommendation.

Certainly, the authors of the 25th Amendment had in mind presidents who suffered from illness while in office, such as Woodrow Wilson after his stroke. But they deliberately used broad language that goes beyond psychological or physical disability. The amendment refers to a president who is “unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.” This language does not specifically refer to mental or physical factors as the source of the inability, and thus allows removal of a president whose incompetence results from other reasons — including a failure of temperament, ideology or ability. ...

Congress should create such a council and staff it not with medical professionals (as proposed in a bill this spring by some Democrats in Congress), but with senior elected officials of both parties — the top Republican and Democratic elected officials in Congress, plus a few governors as well. The body would be required to meet periodically and verify that the president is able to discharge his powers and duties. Of course, it would be permitted to consult with medical and mental health experts, but they would not have any power to make decisions.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#29

Post by Addie » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:07 pm

Newsday - OpEd
Founding Fathers designed impeachment for someone like Trump

Their writings and debates surrounding the creation of the Constitution make clear that the framers feared a certain kind of character coming to power and usurping the republican ideal of their new nation. Having just defeated a tyrant — “Mad” King George III of England — they carefully crafted rules to remove such a character: impeachment. In the process, they revealed precisely the kind of corrupt, venal, inattentive and impulsive character they were worried about.

The very embodiment of what the Founding Fathers feared is now residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Again and again, they anticipated attributes and behaviors that President Donald Trump exhibits on an all-too-regular basis. By describing “High Crimes and Misdemeanors,” the grounds for impeachment, as any act that poses a significant threat to society — either through incompetence or other misdeeds — the framers made it clear that an official does not have to commit a crime to be subject to impeachment. Instead, they made impeachment a political process, understanding that the true threat to the republic was not criminality but unfitness, that a president who violated the country’s norms and values was as much a threat as one who broke its laws.

Gouverneur Morris, who wrote the Constitution’s preamble, and future president James Madison were worried about a leader who would “pervert his administration into a scheme of peculation” — theft of public funds — “or oppression. He might betray his trust to foreign powers,” as Madison put it. Morris, who like many in the colonies believed King Charles had taken bribes from Louis XIV to support France’s war against the Dutch, declared that without impeachment we “expose ourselves to the danger of seeing the first Magistrate in foreign pay without being able to guard against it by displacing him.”


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
AndyinPA
Posts: 775
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#30

Post by AndyinPA » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:56 pm

Impeachment or use of the 25th Amendment give us President Pence. I'm hoping Mueller can find enough to get rid of both of them. Unfortunately, that leaves us with Ryan and on down. None of it is very palatable. For me, the best outcome seems to be the Democrats taking at least one of the houses of Congress next year, and I'm not sure that's going to happen either.



User avatar
Maybenaut
Posts: 4028
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:58 am
Location: Maybelot

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#31

Post by Maybenaut » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:12 pm

tek wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:20 pm
ms.tek and I were just talking about this last night.. so I re-read the 25th amendment..

As far as I can tell, nothing happens without Pence. Not gonna happen. IMHO.
I guess that depends on how bad Pence wants to be president. :dance:



User avatar
maydijo
Posts: 1993
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:23 pm
Location: where women glow and men plunder
Occupation: harassing marsupials

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#32

Post by maydijo » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:18 pm

AndyinPA wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:56 pm
Impeachment or use of the 25th Amendment give us President Pence. I'm hoping Mueller can find enough to get rid of both of them. Unfortunately, that leaves us with Ryan and on down. None of it is very palatable. For me, the best outcome seems to be the Democrats taking at least one of the houses of Congress next year, and I'm not sure that's going to happen either.
Pence is scary, because he's so far right and he knows how to work with Congress. But I trust him not to cause the complete and total annihilation of the world, and I can't say the same about Trump. I suppose from an outsider perspective what I'm saying is, Pence screw you over, but he won't kill me, so I'll gladly take a gamble with Pence.



User avatar
AndyinPA
Posts: 775
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#33

Post by AndyinPA » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:52 pm

maydijo wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:18 pm
AndyinPA wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:56 pm
Impeachment or use of the 25th Amendment give us President Pence. I'm hoping Mueller can find enough to get rid of both of them. Unfortunately, that leaves us with Ryan and on down. None of it is very palatable. For me, the best outcome seems to be the Democrats taking at least one of the houses of Congress next year, and I'm not sure that's going to happen either.
Pence is scary, because he's so far right and he knows how to work with Congress. But I trust him not to cause the complete and total annihilation of the world, and I can't say the same about Trump. I suppose from an outsider perspective what I'm saying is, Pence screw you over, but he won't kill me, so I'll gladly take a gamble with Pence.
I don't disagree with that at all. It's just that there seem to be no good choices.



User avatar
maydijo
Posts: 1993
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:23 pm
Location: where women glow and men plunder
Occupation: harassing marsupials

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#34

Post by maydijo » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:02 pm

AndyinPA wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:52 pm
maydijo wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:18 pm
AndyinPA wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:56 pm
Impeachment or use of the 25th Amendment give us President Pence. I'm hoping Mueller can find enough to get rid of both of them. Unfortunately, that leaves us with Ryan and on down. None of it is very palatable. For me, the best outcome seems to be the Democrats taking at least one of the houses of Congress next year, and I'm not sure that's going to happen either.
Pence is scary, because he's so far right and he knows how to work with Congress. But I trust him not to cause the complete and total annihilation of the world, and I can't say the same about Trump. I suppose from an outsider perspective what I'm saying is, Pence screw you over, but he won't kill me, so I'll gladly take a gamble with Pence.
I don't disagree with that at all. It's just that there seem to be no good choices.
I agree. The one good thing about Trump is that he's too incompetent to play the game, and the one good thing about the GOP is that they're too fractured to pass anything. If it wasn't for Trump regularly trying to drum up a war with North Korea I'd be content with the status quo, because he's too incompetent to be a risk.

Interestingly, North Korea's government sent a letter to Australia's government earlier this week practically begging the Australian government not to go to war, so it seems like North Korea really is trying to prevent it, despite Kim's tough talk. It's pretty sad when I trust a despot like Kim over the US president to keep the peace.



User avatar
AndyinPA
Posts: 775
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#35

Post by AndyinPA » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:17 pm

I think Kim's a lot of talk. That doesn't mean he's not dangerous. I didn't read about the letter to the Australians, but it doesn't surprise me. What he wants most for Korea is the status quo, his heel on the peoples' necks with him at the head as Dear Leader. A war, nuclear, or otherwise, threatens his position of power.



User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 24648
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ (Rawly NC)
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#36

Post by Foggy » Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:18 pm

The 30+% of Americans who do support Trump would freak if Pence led an attempt to remove him using the 25th Amendment.

It's a nice pipe dream, but ain't gonna happen. Pence doesn't want to go down in history as the man who irreparably broke the GOP, even if he does want to be president.


Karma is a bitch." - Jomas Thefferson

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#37

Post by Addie » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:13 pm

The Hill
Dems to launch new impeachment push on Wednesday

A group of House Democrats will join forces Wednesday to introduce new articles of impeachment against President Trump, representing the broadest effort yet to oust him as commander in chief.

The office of Rep. Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.), a Memphis liberal, announced the move. Cohen had indicated in August that he would join the official push to remove Trump from office, citing the president's response to the deadly white supremacist marches in Charlottesville, Va., that same month.

Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.), an immigration reformer who's emerged as one of Trump's loudest critics, will team up with Cohen in the effort. It's unclear how many other Democrats will join the pair, and neither office would say what grounds the articles will cite. In previewing the effort earlier in the month, Gutierrez said the lawmakers were working closely with constitutional lawyers and will "not leave you lacking for reason." ...

The lawmakers join Reps. Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) and Al Green (D-Texas) in launching an official bid to remove Trump from the White House. Sherman has focused his impeachment articles on Trump's firing of former FBI Director James Comey, who was leading the federal probe into Russia's meddling in the 2016 elections, including the possibility that Trump's team had colluded with Moscow to sway the result. Sherman said Trump obstructed justice by firing Comey. ...

The impeachment bid has been a contentious topic within the Democratic Caucus, as party leaders - notably Reps. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) - are discouraging the effort for fear of muddling the Russia investigation being conducted by special council Robert Mueller.Still, Gutierrez said party leaders had not pushed back against the latest impeachment attempt.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Orlylicious
Posts: 6503
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:02 pm

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#38

Post by Orlylicious » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:17 pm

As misguided as #Revote2017, plays right into the GOP's distraction hopes. Wish they wouldn't pull focus from 13 million possibly losing healthcare to pay for tax cuts. Not the time.


From Michael Moore: RESISTANCE CALENDAR! A one-stop site for all anti-Trump actions EVERY DAY nationwide: http://resistancecalendar.org

User avatar
Slartibartfast
Posts: 6946
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#39

Post by Slartibartfast » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:17 am

As misguided as the revote effort? That seems over the top for people who are attempting the remedy provided by the Constitution. Who, it should also be mentioned, are the people to whom the Constitution gives the responsibility of deciding when to employ that remedy. You can argue that it is bad timing, but what can not be argued is that there are no valid grounds for impeachment or that Representatives lack the right to introduce articles of impeachment if they so wish.


"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat."
---Sun Tzu (quoting Thomas Jefferson)
nam-myoho-renge-kyo---Thomas Jefferson (quoting Slartibartfast)

User avatar
RoadScholar
Posts: 5910
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:25 am
Location: Baltimore
Occupation: Historic Restoration Woodworker
Contact:

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#40

Post by RoadScholar » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:31 am

Addie wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:07 pm
Newsday - OpEd
Founding Fathers designed impeachment for someone like Trump

Their writings and debates surrounding the creation of the Constitution make clear that the framers feared a certain kind of character coming to power and usurping the republican ideal of their new nation. Having just defeated a tyrant — “Mad” King George III of England — they carefully crafted rules to remove such a character: impeachment. In the process, they revealed precisely the kind of corrupt, venal, inattentive and impulsive character they were worried about.

The very embodiment of what the Founding Fathers feared is now residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
So was the French Revolution. But I’d settle for impeachment if it’s all that’s available.


The bitterest truth is healthier than the sweetest lie.
X3

User avatar
Slim Cognito
Posts: 4089
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:37 am

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#41

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:41 am

Speaking as someone with no legal or logistical background, let me say the word "impeachment' has lost it's power. We heard it for eight straight years from republicans and it meant nothing. The same thing is happening now.

Don't get me wrong. I would love nothing better than to see Trump impeached, right before they frog march him off to prison. But until we have handy control of congress, they might as well say 'You may already be a winner."



User avatar
June bug
Posts: 5800
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:29 pm

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#42

Post by June bug » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:00 am

Slim Cognito wrote:But until we have handy control of congress, they might as well say 'You may already be a winner."
:yeah:



User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 24648
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ (Rawly NC)
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#43

Post by Foggy » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:50 am

HAY NOW, if Doug Jones wins and all 9 Republican seats go to the Dems in 2018, then in 2019 we would have 58 seats in the US Senate.

Why, we'd only be nine votes short of convicting on impeachment ... and ... we'd lose.


Karma is a bitch." - Jomas Thefferson

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#44

Post by Addie » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:54 am

C-Span: November 15, 2017, Introduction of Articles of Impeachment


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Fortinbras
Posts: 2145
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:08 am

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#45

Post by Fortinbras » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:32 am

Either proposal will have a hard time succeeding, partly because Mike Pence is so effective as Impeachment Insurance.



User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#46

Post by Addie » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:08 pm

WaPo - Dave Weigel: The campaign to impeach President Trump: A user’s guide


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#47

Post by Addie » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:46 am

Newsweek: Trump Impeachment Articles: Here Are All the Ways the President Has Been Accused of Violating the Constitution

While President Barack Obama managed to make it through eight years in the White House with little more than an outlandish sniff of an idea of being impeached, President Donald Trump so far has been formally accused of an impeachable offense for every month of his presidency.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Turtle
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:27 pm

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#48

Post by Turtle » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:20 am

In a House of Cards scenario, we could end up with Rex Tillerson as acting POTUS with a Christie-Trump ticket versus a Trump-Schumer ticket in 2020.



User avatar
Addie
Posts: 21834
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#49

Post by Addie » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:00 am

The Atlantic - Peter Beinart
The Odds of Impeachment Are Dropping

Now that Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the F.B.I., and agreed to dish on his former boss, some Trump-watchers are suggesting that impeachment may be around the corner. “It’s time to start talking about impeachment,” announced a Saturday column on CNN.com. The Flynn deal, declared former Deputy Assistant Attorney General Harry Litman in Friday’s New York Times, “portends the likelihood of impeachable charges being brought against the president of the United States.”

That may be true. But bringing impeachment charges against Trump, and actually forcing him from office, are two vastly different things. And while the former may be more likely today than it was half a year ago, the latter is actually less likely. Since Robert Mueller became special counsel in May, the chances of the House of Representatives passing articles of impeachment—and the Senate ratifying them—have probably gone down.

That’s because impeachment is less a legal process than a political one. Passing articles of impeachment requires a majority of the House. Were such a vote held today—even if every Democrat voted yes—it would still require 22 Republicans. If Democrats take the House next fall, they could then pass articles of impeachment on their own. But ratifying those articles would require two-thirds of the Senate, which would probably require at least 15 Republican votes.

That kind of mass Republican defection has grown harder, not easier, to imagine. It’s grown harder because the last six months have demonstrated that GOP voters will stick with Trump despite his lunacy, and punish those Republican politicians who do not.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 24648
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ (Rawly NC)
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#50

Post by Foggy » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:35 am

DoomSeers vindicated!


Karma is a bitch." - Jomas Thefferson

Post Reply

Return to “Congress”