Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

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Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#1

Post by Addie » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:57 am

Thread title changed

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Countable.us
Nadler Files Preliminary Impeachment Inquiry Against President Trump

A top Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee has filed a "resolution of inquiry" into President Donald J. Trump. It can be considered a step toward the impeachment process because of the information sought in this case. The last time a resolution of inquiry was considered on the House floor was in 1995, against then-President Bill Clinton related to financial aid for Mexico.

Congressman Jerrold Nadler, (D-NY) filed the inquiry; Nadler is the second ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Committee, which responds to such filings. He offered the following statement on his resolution:

"Donald Trump has refused to step away from his business interests in any meaningful way. His foreign entanglements are likely unconstitutional, he has repeatedly refused to disclose his financial assets, and he is clouded by the specter of Russian intervention in the election and his Administration.”

What's a resolution of inquiry?

According to official rules, the Judiciary Committee must respond to the resolution of inquiry within 14 legislative days, or Congressional workdays. The committee can either report the resolution favorably, reject it, or revise it. If it chooses not to act within that time period, Congressman Nadler could request that the resolution be discharged (meaning it gets pulled out of committee) so that the House as a whole can then vote on it.

By rejecting a resolution of inquiry, the committee considering it isn’t necessarily saying that the subject of the inquiry is without merit or that the administration didn’t provide the requested information. It could mean that the committee received what it asked for and that what it got is enough to bring the administration in compliance with the request, meaning that further action was unnecessary.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#2

Post by Addie » Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:46 am

Yahoo News - Michael Isikoff
Bill to create panel that could remove Trump from office quietly picks up Democratic support

For months, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and other Democratic leaders have privately counseled their more militant members to forswear talk of impeaching President Trump, telling them the political support for such a step simply doesn’t exist in the GOP-controlled Congress.

But 21 House Democrats, including the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, are now pushing an equally radical alternative: They are backing a bill that would create a congressional “oversight” commission that could declare the president incapacitated, leading to his removal from office under the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

At 12:56 p.m. Thursday, barely four hours after Trump tweeted attacks against MSNBC cable host Mika Brzezinski in crude, personal terms, Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., the chief sponsor of the bill, sent out an email to his colleagues, urging them to get behind the measure, writing it was of “enduring importance to the security of our nation.” ...

To be sure, even Raskin acknowledges Congress and the country are in largely uncharted waters. The 25th Amendment was adopted in 1967 in response to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and past presidential medical crises — including the heart attacks of Dwight Eisenhower and the illnesses of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson — to deal with instances where presidents become incapacitated and unable to perform the duties of their office.

One of its provisions, known as Section 4, empowers the vice president along with a majority of the Cabinet to make a determination that a president is “unable to discharge the powers and duties” of the office, and then provide it in writing to Congress, resulting in the president’s removal. It’s a step that has never been taken.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#3

Post by tek » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:20 pm

ms.tek and I were just talking about this last night.. so I re-read the 25th amendment..

As far as I can tell, nothing happens without Pence. Not gonna happen. IMHO.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#4

Post by Fortinbras » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:41 pm

It will be very difficult to establish that Trump is "unable" within the terms of the 25th Amendment.

However there seems to be no precise limit to what Congress can deem sufficient cause for impeachment, so that seems to have a better chance of going forward.

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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#5

Post by Addie » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:08 pm

Mercury News
Rep. Speier calls for Trump's removal from office under 25th Amendment

SAN JOSE, Calif.

A California congresswoman is calling for President Donald Trump to be removed from the presidency under a never-before-used constitutional provision.

Rep. Jackie Speier, a San Francisco-area Democrat, said this week that Trump should be removed from office with the 25th Amendment, following his latest comments blaming "many sides" for violence after white nationalist protests in Charlottesville, Va.

"POTUS is showing signs of erratic behavior and mental instability that place the country in grave danger," Speier tweeted Tuesday night. "Time to invoke the 25th Amendment."

The 25th Amendment, which has never been invoked, states that the vice president and a majority of the Cabinet can temporarily remove the president from office by declaring him or her "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" in a letter to Congress. The vice president becomes the acting president.

If the president objects to his or her removal, the debate goes to Congress. A two-thirds majority vote in both houses of Congress is required to keep the president from returning to office. ...

Speier is the first member of Congress to call for the use of the 25th Amendment to remove Trump. But after the president's comments Tuesday, there were growing calls for him to be impeached. Rep. Gwen Moore, D-Wis., said Tuesday that Trump should be impeached, joining a handful of members of Congress who have done so.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#6

Post by Addie » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:18 pm

VOX
Read a House Democrat's new bill asking for Trump to be removed via the 25th Amendment

A House Democrat will introduce legislation on Friday asking Vice President Mike Pence and the Cabinet to consider removing President Trump from office under the 25th Amendment.

“Trump has exhibited an alarming pattern of behavior and speech causing concern that a mental disorder may have rendered him unfit and unable to fulfill his Constitutional duties,” says the resolution written by Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), a copy of which was provided to Vox. ...

What matters less here is the fate of the legislation — it will be dead on arrival in a Republican Congress — but who is behind it. Lofgren isn’t regarded as a particularly left-wing Democrat, and her embrace of the proposal suggests calls to undemocratically remove Trump are moving into the Democratic Party’s mainstream as his crises multiply. As recently as May, the vast majority of Democratic officials were rejecting left-wing activists’ calls for impeachment as absurdly premature.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#7

Post by Addie » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:26 pm

Independent
Democrat to introduce Trump impeachment articles over his Charlottesville response

A Democrat intends to introduce impeachment articles against Donald Trump over the President's response to a violent rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

“I have expressed great concerns about President Trump’s ability to lead our country in the Resolution of No Confidence (HRes 456) that I introduced in July with 29 of my colleagues,” Representative Steve Cohen said in a statement. “However, after the President’s comments on Saturday, August 12 and again on Tuesday, August 15 in response to the horrific events in Charlottesville, I believe the President should be impeached and removed from office. ...

In his statement on Thursday, Mr Cohen lambasted the President for not “unequivocally condemning hateful actions by neo-Nazis, white nationalists and Klansmen following a national tragedy.”

“There are no good Nazis. There are no good Klansmen,” he added.

Mr Cohen, a Tennessee liberal, is the highest ranking Democrat on the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution and Civil Justice. His declaration that he will try to get Mr Trump removed from office follows a similar effort by Democratic Congressman Brad Sherman.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#8

Post by bob » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:33 pm

"For the record," the House plays no role in the 25th Amendment; Pence is free to ignore the resolution.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#9

Post by Dan1100 » Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:48 pm

bob wrote:"For the record," the House plays no role in the 25th Amendment; Pence is free to ignore the resolution.
25th Amendment Section 4
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departmentsor of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
So, theoretically, they Congress could pass a law appointing, for example, a board of psychiatrists, to decide if the president is fit for office.

Of course, it is totally theoretical, because they'd have to pass it over Comrade Trump's veto and if they could do that, then they'd just impeach him instead.

All these bills are just harassment and that's good, he needs to be harassed. The bill that would really get under his skin would be convening Freudian Board of Presidential Insanity and Sexual Pathology.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#10

Post by RVInit » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:16 pm

Of course, if Trump can step down due to his having dementia, that would solve the problems and save face for Trump, Pence, and yellow-bellied Congress critters. :mrgreen:
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#11

Post by Fortinbras » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:55 pm

There is presently a resolution (actually, multiple resolutions) in Congress for a mental exam of Trump.
I do not know if this is even Constitutional.
I do not favor it. If the resolution fails, it will be widely misinterpreted as a vote of confidence in Trump. If the resolution passes, there may be some delaying tactics over the exam, including the choice of doctor(s), and maybe some sort of hankypanky (such as spying on the doctors' phone calls and faxes). Most likely the doctors chosen for the unprecedented and awesome responsibility will consider themselves bound to the highest professional standards, which may mean that Trump will be evaluated only by the standards used to establish bona fide incompetence or insanity for legal purposes - very starchy standards and hardly anyone is suggesting that Trump is that conspicuously bad. So the President will be reported to be (barely) sane and competent, which will be widely misinterpreted as an official derclaration that he's got the smarts. And either way we end up with Trump.

The likelihood that the doctors will declare Trump too defective to be President is a long long shot.

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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#12

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:52 pm

If a mental exam is voted, we know who the examining physician will be, don't we?
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#13

Post by Addie » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:14 pm

CNN
Congresswoman: There's a 'mountain of evidence' that Trump is unstable

(CNN) Democratic Rep. Jackie Speier is voicing concerns over President Trump's mental fitness and calling for him to be removed from office through the 25th Amendment.

In comments Tuesday on CNN, Speier said there's "a growing mountain of evidence that the president has been very erratic" and "has shown a mental instability." ...

"If you go back in time, like six years, and watch interviews that he gave then where he could put a whole sentence together, but now tends to put a few words together and then goes off into another sentence unrelated to the first," she added. "It is an indication to me that there is some trouble there that is more than just a one-off."

Speier, who serves on the Armed Services and Intelligence Committees, said she is genuinely worried for the American people. ...

The California congresswoman is among several Democrats in Congress to publicly suggest Trump should be removed from office through a never-before invoked section of the 25th amendment, which allows the vice president and a majority of the Cabinet to declare him unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#14

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:22 pm

RVInit wrote:Of course, if Trump can step down due to his having dementia, that would solve the problems and save face for Trump, Pence, and yellow-bellied Congress critters. :mrgreen:
From the perspective of the GOP's future prospects, there's an even better scenario involving Trump being removed from office. The only scenario that would transform him from being seen as a raving lunatic sweet potato into a Republican hero and martyr...and lead to more support for the Republican ticket as a result.

NADT.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#15

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:15 am

The Russians might be willing to lend a hand. They're good at that sort of thing.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#16

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:25 am

RoadScholar wrote:The Russians might be willing to lend a hand. They're good at that sort of thing.
Someone should warn him to stay off the balcony and away from windows.

Or not.

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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#17

Post by noblepa » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:04 am

Fortinbras wrote:It will be very difficult to establish that Trump is "unable" within the terms of the 25th Amendment.

However there seems to be no precise limit to what Congress can deem sufficient cause for impeachment, so that seems to have a better chance of going forward.
The 25th does not define what makes a president unable to perform his function, and, of course, its never been tested in court.

It may be like "high crimes and misdemeanors
' whatever congress decides it is. In the case of the 25th, whatever the VP and cabinet decide make him unable to perform may be sufficient.

It is also unclear how a president could fight such a move. Just as there is no appeal from an impeachment conviction, there may be no appeal from an invocation of the 25th. It would definitely be terra incognita.

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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#18

Post by noblepa » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:09 am

Addie wrote:VOX
Read a House Democrat's new bill asking for Trump to be removed via the 25th Amendment

A House Democrat will introduce legislation on Friday asking Vice President Mike Pence and the Cabinet to consider removing President Trump from office under the 25th Amendment.

“Trump has exhibited an alarming pattern of behavior and speech causing concern that a mental disorder may have rendered him unfit and unable to fulfill his Constitutional duties,” says the resolution written by Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), a copy of which was provided to Vox. ...

What matters less here is the fate of the legislation — it will be dead on arrival in a Republican Congress — but who is behind it. Lofgren isn’t regarded as a particularly left-wing Democrat, and her embrace of the proposal suggests calls to undemocratically remove Trump are moving into the Democratic Party’s mainstream as his crises multiply. As recently as May, the vast majority of Democratic officials were rejecting left-wing activists’ calls for impeachment as absurdly premature.
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As I read the 25th amendment, the house has no role in removing a president. So, is this legislation merely encouraging the cabinet and vice president to invoke the 25th?

Unlike impeachment, which must begin in the House, removal via the 25th must begin in the cabinet/VP or other body that Congress may appoint. AFAIK, Congress has created no such alternate body, so it would be up to the cabinet/VP to begin the process, not the House.

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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#19

Post by kate520 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:10 am

This sounds like a Hail Mary bill, and frankly, I'm about there myself.

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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#20

Post by noblepa » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:17 am

RVInit wrote:Of course, if Trump can step down due to his having dementia, that would solve the problems and save face for Trump, Pence, and yellow-bellied Congress critters. :mrgreen:
Trump would never admit that.

Short of death or being in a coma, removing Trump, by any means, will involve a lot of kicking and screaming.

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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#21

Post by bob » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:23 am

The House has no role" in the 25th Amendment; this is just for show.


* The House can introduce legislation to expand the procedure to determine incapacity. No such additional procedures presently exist.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#22

Post by RVInit » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:57 am

noblepa wrote:
RVInit wrote:Of course, if Trump can step down due to his having dementia, that would solve the problems and save face for Trump, Pence, and yellow-bellied Congress critters. :mrgreen:
Trump would never admit that.

Short of death or being in a coma, removing Trump, by any means, will involve a lot of kicking and screaming.
Call it wishful thinking. :lol:
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#23

Post by Suranis » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:15 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:If a mental exam is voted, we know who the examining physician will be, don't we?
If only there was a constitutional lawyer, skilled in dentistry and other medical sciences and so able to give a health exam, from Eastern Europe so she would recognize Russian influence, an expert in foreign policy...
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#24

Post by ZekeB » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:34 pm

Well you know the old saying: It takes one to know one.
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Re: Resolution of Inquiry Re Impeachment; Commission to Declare President Incapacitated Re 25th Amendment

#25

Post by Addie » Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:56 pm

Think Progress
Longtime Trump adviser says any politician who votes for impeachment ‘will endanger their own life’

Roger Stone, one of President Trump’s oldest and most-trusted advisers, warned that any politician who voted to impeach Donald Trump “will endanger their own life.”

Stone began by taunting members of Congress who were calling for Trump’s impeachment. “Try to impeach him, just try it!,” Stone exclaimed. He then promised that, if Trump was impeached, there would be a violent, armed response.

“You will have a spasm of violence in this country, an insurrection, like you’ve never seen,” he promised. “The people will not stand for impeachment. A politician that votes for it will endanger their own life.”

Toward the end of the interview, Stone claimed he was “not advocating violence.”
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