Gun Control Legislation

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Judge Roy Bean
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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1176

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Sun May 20, 2018 3:55 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:31 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_d ... s_by_state

http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content ... 015-041586

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 359395002/

In 2016 US state gun deaths per 100,000 residents varied from a low of 3.4 in Massachusetts to a high of 23.3 in Alaska. (The rate for the whole US was 11.8.)

Using data from 2013, 61.7% of Alaskan adults over the age of 18 owned guns. Only 22.6 % of the adults in Massachusetts owned guns.

Fewer guns, fewer gun deaths.
Obviously - and misses the point conveniently while ignoring the cultural differences between the two states.

Again - how do you disarm the population?


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1177

Post by Danraft » Sun May 20, 2018 3:55 pm

Volkonsky, yes. But,unfortunately, I've looked at the data and it isn't that clear cut... although I wish it was.
Many states, a great many, don't support that.


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1178

Post by Volkonski » Sun May 20, 2018 3:57 pm

Nevertheless states with stricter gun laws and lower rates of gun ownership generally have lower rates of gun deaths.

But fine, let them keep their guns. Forbid the manufacture and sale of ammunition. The 2nd amendment doesn't mention ammunition.


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1179

Post by Danraft » Sun May 20, 2018 4:00 pm

Judge Bean,
Most proposals I've seen don't "Disarm the population", but make it illegal to have the gun outside of your property.
So, only criminals will walk around with an AR-15.
Then you arrest them. Take their source of manhood, er, gun, and move on.
The actual number of people in favor of this is huge, percentage wise.
We are at the lowest percentage of households owning guns in perhaps US history.
The NRA experiment, since the end of the Ban, has failed.
Time to call it a failure,and move back to the more reasonable, globally proven, ban on assault style weapons.


We've got work to doing!
So, pull on your Sock Puppets --and start Mis-spelling!!!

- Dr Whom, Time Lord
(DNA tests reveal a recessive, silent 'm')

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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1180

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Sun May 20, 2018 4:15 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:57 pm
Nevertheless states with stricter gun laws and lower rates of gun ownership generally have lower rates of gun deaths.

But fine, let them keep their guns. Forbid the manufacture and sale of ammunition. The 2nd amendment doesn't mention ammunition.
It doesn't have to. "Arms" includes munitions.

We keep circling back to simplistic ideas instead of facing reality. That's why nothing is getting done.

The right to self defense against assailants is never going to go away. That includes armed defense. The right to hunt with firearms is not going away. It can, and is regulated. But there will always be firearms in the possession of millions of people.

You can't wave a magic wand over that.

I've suggested before that our primary risk factor is males up to the age of about 25. I wouldn't allow the sale of a firearm or ammunition to anyone under the age of 25. It seems that after that age there's a remarkable drop off in aggression and violent behavior.

How do we culturally make violence become not the first, second or third option for them?


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1181

Post by Volkonski » Sun May 20, 2018 4:17 pm



Image“If everyone fought for their own convictions there would be no war.”
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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1182

Post by Danraft » Sun May 20, 2018 4:20 pm

Ok.
This is the gun control thread.
Ive brought it up before, and on Facebook, etc, ....
And, it gets poo-poo'd every time.
It is SO EASY to make a gun a "smart weapon", that is use some sort of biometric or password type device.

I mean, once again, the kid has someone else's weapon, and boom, he's a killer.
(I mean, come on, even the cheap phones have this, and have for a decade)

SECONDLY,
How about every gun used for "self defense" has the first round in the weapon be a non-lethal round....?
Yep, rubber bullet, or a beanbag for a shot gun, or a tear gas round. Non-;lethal
Just one round.
I do two non-lethal rounds in mine.

I think it would be a game changer. For me, I don't want to kill someone for breaking into my car.
And, these things hurt!!!
They are just as LOUD! And, they HURT.
And, if you don't have success on the first round or two, then still feel like your life is in danger, you have a deadly round.

Why not? What does it take away from? The guys who actually want to kill a human and are lusting for the chance to do it? Screw them.
But, perhaps a few less toddlers would die. And, Siblings and spouses, Maybe a few mass shooters just want the attention,...


We've got work to doing!
So, pull on your Sock Puppets --and start Mis-spelling!!!

- Dr Whom, Time Lord
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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1183

Post by Danraft » Sun May 20, 2018 4:29 pm

Judge Bean,
I don't care about the stats.
I'm tire of well trod ground where everybody has their corner.

What do feel about non-lethal rounds?
If you don't know much, fine, but I am NOT saying anything more than a self-defense weapon have the First round be self-defense.
Please.
Your personal thoughts.
And how you think those in the Pecos area would respond.


We've got work to doing!
So, pull on your Sock Puppets --and start Mis-spelling!!!

- Dr Whom, Time Lord
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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1184

Post by Foggy » Sun May 20, 2018 4:54 pm



The point of no return is no longer even visible in your rearview mirror. :-

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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1185

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Sun May 20, 2018 5:00 pm

Danraft wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 4:20 pm
Ok.
This is the gun control thread.
Ive brought it up before, and on Facebook, etc, ....
And, it gets poo-poo'd every time.
It is SO EASY to make a gun a "smart weapon", that is use some sort of biometric or password type device.

I mean, once again, the kid has someone else's weapon, and boom, he's a killer.
(I mean, come on, even the cheap phones have this, and have for a decade)
The Identilock (external) device is an effective example, but it has to be made for specific fit on only (for now) handguns. The problem is it's expensive (over $200) and the owner has to want one. The Veri Fire Guardian is even more - $300.

Modifications to many extant firearms are not only prohibitively expensive, they aren't physically practical.
Danraft wrote: SECONDLY,
How about every gun used for "self defense" has the first round in the weapon be a non-lethal round....?
Yep, rubber bullet, or a beanbag for a shot gun, or a tear gas round. Non-;lethal
Just one round.
I do two non-lethal rounds in mine.
I think it would be a game changer. For me, I don't want to kill someone for breaking into my car.
And, these things hurt!!!
They are just as LOUD! And, they HURT.
And, if you don't have success on the first round or two, then still feel like your life is in danger, you have a deadly round.

Why not? What does it take away from? The guys who actually want to kill a human and are lusting for the chance to do it? Screw them.
That would only be practical at very close ranges against someone who is unarmed or who shares the same philosophical aversion to potentially killing someone. The criminal trying to hijack your car or hold you up at the ATM probably doesn't feel the same way.
Danraft wrote: But, perhaps a few less toddlers would die. And, Siblings and spouses, Maybe a few mass shooters just want the attention,...
Undoubtedly true.


“Where all think alike, no one thinks very much.”
Walter Lippmann

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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1186

Post by Danraft » Sun May 20, 2018 5:02 pm

Yes, Yes.....
But, really, everyone's positions are so well scripted we're could switch roles...
So, I'll talk to roosters and imaginary characters just for a not-predictable and perhaps useful convo.


We've got work to doing!
So, pull on your Sock Puppets --and start Mis-spelling!!!

- Dr Whom, Time Lord
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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1187

Post by Danraft » Sun May 20, 2018 5:10 pm

Judge Bean,
All handguns are only effective at close range.
Most home invasions are not armed, and are someone the homeowner knows.
Most people have an aversion to killing people... pretty sure about that.

It's one round. Or, I should say, I suggest one round required.
One could choose to have the entire clip be "non-lethal"


And, there are much less expensive after market conversions.
Look at it this way....
The NRA isn't about anything but selling more guns. they are the Gun Lobby.
If, over a 10 year period, Smart Guns became the norm, then it would be a Big Selling Point for the gun industry,

Like CD's vs Vinyl for the music industry.
The only reason Assault Weapons are so loved by the NRA is revenue.


We've got work to doing!
So, pull on your Sock Puppets --and start Mis-spelling!!!

- Dr Whom, Time Lord
(DNA tests reveal a recessive, silent 'm')

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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1188

Post by Suranis » Sun May 20, 2018 5:18 pm

During the Australian Buyback program they voluntarily got and destroyed 700,000+ firearms. It would be fairly easy to actually take the guns out of the equation, all that's missing is the political will to do it, especially since only 28% of Americans actually own the guns and not everyone of them would be affected by a buyback program. People like JRB are just deliberately overblowing the task involved because they are insane, and regard hundreds of thousands of gun injuries a year as an acceptable price for their own fun.

After all you can regulate hundreds of millions of Cars, and Cars are brought up constantly as having the same amount of deaths as Guns. But Cars are regulated, and the Right to Travel is in the Constitution too.

Oh and the best gun for "Home Defense" is a shotgun, not a extra semen large mag fully automatic Assault penis.


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1189

Post by TollandRCR » Sun May 20, 2018 5:23 pm

Shotguns as instruments of mass murder? Back when i was in Boy Scouts i encountered shotguns that had to be manually loaded. This was never as fast as a gun with a magazine operated. Have shotguns evolved?

If the murderer had to take time to reload, i wonder whether he could have been subdued by a couple of tackles and linebackers. Maybe the handgun he carried was tio ward off such attacks.


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1190

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Sun May 20, 2018 5:27 pm

Danraft wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:10 pm
Judge Bean,
All handguns are only effective at close range.
That's not really true - it depends on your definition of "close range."

The problem with most non-lethal rounds is essentially mass and velocity. The pressure and recoil from the round probably won't be sufficient to make a semi-automatic firearm function properly.
Danraft wrote: Most home invasions are not armed, and are someone the homeowner knows.
Actually, most of them are well armed. Anyone and everyone involved in drug trafficking is armed to the teeth.
Danraft wrote:Most people have an aversion to killing people... pretty sure about that.
Most non-criminals, yes. There are plenty of criminals out there who have no compunction about torture and murder. Just take a look at the FBI's reports on gang activity.
Danraft wrote: If, over a 10 year period, Smart Guns became the norm, then it would be a Big Selling Point for the gun industry, :snippity:
We'd have to find something that would address the millions of extant firearms and won't take 10 years to have an effect.


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Judge Roy Bean
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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1191

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 pm

Suranis wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:18 pm
:snippity: People like JRB are just deliberately overblowing the task involved because they are insane, and regard hundreds of thousands of gun injuries a year as an acceptable price for their own fun.
:snippity:
:roll:
Does that inanity make you feel better now?


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1192

Post by Suranis » Sun May 20, 2018 5:57 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:35 pm
Does that inanity make you feel better now?
Inanity > Insanity. Especially since the bits you didn't quote shredded all your rather stupid repetitive arguments. "Oh NOES there are lots of penises out there owned by a vast minority of the population therefore all we can do is pathetically sit there and do nothing! Oh woe!"

And ya, I'm calling them Penises. Shock horror dude, yes you CAN go out and get millions of guns. You CAN stop their sale. You CAN stop the sale of their ammunition. Fuck off, you are sounding like those ads that tell everyone how "dreadfully hard" it is to kick cigarettes to flog Nicotine patches.
Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:27 pm
Danraft wrote: Most home invasions are not armed, and are someone the homeowner knows.
Actually, most of them are well armed. Anyone and everyone involved in drug trafficking is armed to the teeth.
Danraft wrote:Most people have an aversion to killing people... pretty sure about that.
Most non-criminals, yes. There are plenty of criminals out there who have no compunction about torture and murder. Just take a look at the FBI's reports on gang activity.
Both these statements are total and utter bullshit, as proven by the fact that JRB is too "Lazy" to actually provide any statistics to prove what he said, because he knows the actual statistics would prove him wrong, just like he knows the international experience shows the assumptions he repeats constantly are laughably wrong.


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1193

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Sun May 20, 2018 6:01 pm

Suranis wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:57 pm
:snippity:
Your sick fascination with sexual themes is telling. Please go away and let the adults discuss this.


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1194

Post by Suranis » Sun May 20, 2018 6:10 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 6:01 pm
:snippity: Please go away and let the adults discuss this.
Insert obvious response here. :roll:


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1195

Post by Mikedunford » Sun May 20, 2018 7:05 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:27 pm
Danraft wrote: Most home invasions are not armed, and are someone the homeowner knows.
Actually, most of them are well armed. Anyone and everyone involved in drug trafficking is armed to the teeth.
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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1196

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Sun May 20, 2018 7:30 pm

Judge Roy Bean wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 5:27 pm
Danraft wrote: Most home invasions are not armed, and are someone the homeowner knows.
Actually, most of them are well armed. Anyone and everyone involved in drug trafficking is armed to the teeth.
Are you saying most home invasions are committed by drug traffickers?

And p.s. Your statement that "anyone and everyone" involved in drug trafficking is armed to the teeth isn't accurate. Arrests of drug traffickers traveling with massive amounts of drugs between TX and FL are made frequently on our I-20 pipeline, and they very rarely, if ever, caught with weapons. The weapons traffickers, on the other hand, are often caught with drugs.



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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1197

Post by Fortinbras » Sun May 20, 2018 7:37 pm

I cannot fully grasp the latest hints about the supposedly underlying causes of the latest school massacre. I have heard suggestions that seem to imply everything from "Don't let your pretty daughter say No to the creep who dares to ask her out to a drinking party" to "Don't let the school teach evolution" (even if the shooter didn't graduate from that school) to "Don't let anybody get abortions" (even though the Supreme Court said they're a Constitution right - y'know, like having guns). But they all seem geared as Giving in to the trouble-makers. This is not civilized. This is not how societies work their way upwards.

How about age limits, and background checks, and waiting periods for a start? And taking certain types of guns and certain bits of gun accessories off the market? And instead of enlarging the number of places where people are allowed to walk in packing heat, we actually try to shrink that number. No collection of laws will positively absolutely stop all gun crime but wouldn't it be nice to use the top half of our flag poles again?



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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1198

Post by Danraft » Sun May 20, 2018 7:53 pm

I'm in the midst of headache hell, the African Grey is nervous because of big sky flashes and kabooms, and the schnoodle won't go outside to potty until it stops raining...

JRB, Suranis is right, we do have General concept of supporting with links and I event done so as the are the same statements I've made here before with support...my bad.
But, really, I think some of yours are inaccurate.
You claim to know what all criminals are thinking and value and build a Strawman argument from that, etc.

I started looking for the number of music CD'S sold to people that already had the album to express the idea of revenue generated for the gun industry by a little planned obsolescence...

But, think of it this way... Smart phones. They're good for 3-5 years, and cost a pretty penny. Just in iPhones, the business model is huge in terms of revenue. The new iPhone 10 is $750+ ....
How many millions of those are gonna be bought by owners of the iphone8?
Quit crying about how there "are too many" or, "it would cost too much".
Just requiring guns in public areas to be a certain level of safe, and a buy back credit for some smaller amount for the obsolete junk would take care of it.

imagine, your neighbor's InCel son takes his father's gun (the father was celibate as well... these things are hereditary, doncha know) and he can't shoot all his friends at school.
Voila.
done. Cluster headaches suck.


We've got work to doing!
So, pull on your Sock Puppets --and start Mis-spelling!!!

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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1199

Post by RoadScholar » Sun May 20, 2018 8:53 pm

First, getting rid of all guns is a non-starter.

Here’s the goal: make it harder for criminals and mentally unstable people to get and use a gun. AND we should do nothing to deprive law-abiding mentally-stable Americans of gun ownership and use.

Here are some of the ideas that COULD stop many mass shootings that the NRA and its bought-and-paid for lackeys in Congress gave opposed:


A State registration (just like cars) so that stolen guns can be traced to their owners, and a stolen gun can be listed as stolen.

Technology that allows only authorized users to use guns. You know, like car keys.

(Few of these mass shooters used weapons they themselves owned. And each would have one admin who could revoke other users’ access if they became concerned about their stability.)

Universal background checks to plug the loopholes that now allow felons to buy weapons without record of sale.

Stiffer penalties for those who fail to secure their weapons and a tragedy occurs.

Tiered training requirements for more abusable and more powerful weapons.

Revokable gun licenses like car licenses.

Laws allowing a judge to remove the guns from mentally unstable people.

...

They oppose any restrictions whatsoever. That’s been the problem all along.

And all those ideas would perhaps mildly inconvenience law-abiding mentally-stable Americans but not a single one would deprive them. A small sacrifice for saving lives, especially young ones.


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Re: Gun Control Legislation

#1200

Post by Till Eulenspiegel » Mon May 21, 2018 5:22 am

Volkonski wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 4:17 pm
This is an interesting stats for the lower percentages. Some Scandinavian countries have a higher gun violence than Germany. I explain this not with more violent populations but again with a higher availability of guns - here hunting rifles. In Germany hunting is an elitistic pastime, in Finland and Sweden very popular however.


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