Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

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Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#1

Post by Addie »

Axios
Justice Department inspector general to testify on FISA investigation

Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz will testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Dec. 11 about his investigation into alleged abuses of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) during the Russia probe, Chairman Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) announced Monday.

Why it matters: Horowitz's highly anticipated report is expected to explore, among other things, whether the FBI's court-ordered surveillance of former Trump campaign aide Carter Page was properly handled. Trump allies hope that Horowitz's report, as well as a separate investigation into intelligence collecting led by prosecutor John Durham, will undermine the findings of the Russia investigation.

Go deeper: Investigation into Trump-Russia probe said to become criminal inquiry

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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#2

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Talking Points Memo
DOJ IG To Release Report On Origins Of Russia Probe Dec. 9

Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz will release his report about the origins of the Trump-Russia investigation on Dec. 9, Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) told Fox News’s Sean Hannity Wednesday evening.

Graham, who heads the Senate Judiciary Committee, also said that Horowitz had accepted an invitation to testify before the panel on Dec. 11.

Horowitz has spent months working on the report, which seeks to examine allegations that the Justice Department acted improperly in getting a wiretap on a Trump campaign adviser in July 2016.

Specifically, Trump allies have sought to counter narratives that his campaign acted in concert with Russia’s election interference effort by accusing the FBI of impropriety in getting a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant on that Trump campaign adviser in the early stages of its counterintelligence investigation.

The Mueller investigation found overwhelming evidence of Russian election interference aimed at supporting the 2016 Trump campaign.

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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#3

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Cross-posting

CNN
Exclusive: Former FBI lawyer under investigation after allegedly altering document in 2016 Russia probe

Washington (CNN)A former FBI lawyer is under criminal investigation after allegedly altering a document related to 2016 surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser, several people briefed on the matter told CNN.

The possibility of a substantive change to an investigative document is likely to fuel accusations from President Donald Trump and his allies that the FBI committed wrongdoing in its investigation of connections between Russian election meddling and the Trump campaign.

The finding is expected to be part of Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz's review of the FBI's effort to obtain warrants under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act on Carter Page, a former Trump campaign aide. Horowitz will release the report next month.

Horowitz turned over evidence on the allegedly altered document to John Durham, the federal prosecutor appointed early this year by Attorney General William Barr to conduct a broad investigation of intelligence gathered for the Russia probe by the CIA and other agencies, including the FBI. The altered document is also at least one focus of Durham's criminal probe.

It's unknown how significant a role the altered document played in the FBI's investigation of Page and whether the FISA warrant would have been approved without the document. The alterations were significant enough to have shifted the document's meaning and came up during a part of Horowitz's FISA review where details were classified, according to the sources.

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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#4

Post by TexasFilly »

Interesting timing of this leak.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#5

Post by Lani »

i have a bad feeling about this.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#6

Post by Slim Cognito »

Crossposting this from another thread because, honestly, I'm confused and not sure where it goes:

I have so many questions.

Do we have any suspects that fall under the description of "former FBI lawyer?" How would one categorize some of trump's favorite to people, Comey, Page and Strzok? I thought of them as investigators, more Jerry Orbach than Sam Waterston. Could this be referencing McCabe?

Also too, when they say "altered" a document, are we positive that means intentional? My boss used to say "I live in fear of clerical error." There was a urban legend at one of my former hospitals in which a patient's History and Physical ended with an impression missing one very important word, "No." As in "no evidence of..." thus altering the document's meaning. This apparently caused the patient great pain and suffering, despite the doctor verbally giving her the correct diagnosis, and leading to a more complicated solution than simply berating the transcriptionist.

This was back when we chiseled our transcripts into stone so there was no way to locate the micro cassette and listen to the actual dictation, therefore no way to know who was at fault, doctor, transcriptionist or mechanical failure. (Also, there's the possibility it was propaganda to keep us on our toes.) Still, it was always the transcriptionist's fault. Although doctors are human and often misspeak, it was our job to verify everything the doctor said matched the information contained within. If they failed to proofread before signing, it still came back on us and we could only work with what the doctor gave us

I guess my first, long-winded point is, not every "altered" document has malicious intent.

Also, going back to my extensive Law & Order training, if malicious intent is what they're going for, it seems odd to me the lawyer would do it if he theoretically received the correct information. I'd think the narrative trump would want pushed would be blame the misinformation on Jerry Orbach, not Sam Waterston. He's just working with the information he was given, right?

One more (for now). How does going after Carter Page's FISA application, a guy who was never charged with anything, affect the people Mueller did nail, like Papadopoulos, Flynn and Manafort?
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#7

Post by Slim Cognito »

Lani wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:36 am
i have a bad feeling about this.
Me too. I figure they've decided this will be 2020's Her Emails, something they can hold against the entire party, should their attack on Biden fizzle when/if he doesn't get the nomination.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#8

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Meh. I think what they found was slim pickens, hence the vague announcement, instead of fanfare. They had to come up with something. I remain skeptical that what they found amounts to much.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#9

Post by tek »

SLQ wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:37 am
Meh. I think what they found was slim pickens, hence the vague announcement, instead of fanfare. They had to come up with something. I remain skeptical that what they found amounts to much.
I'm sure Barr can spin it up, though..
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#10

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I can't play the video at :twisted: Faux News :twisted: , but apparently when Dotard phoned a friend this morning, he said the "altered" document was in a FISA application. None of the information so far says it was a FISA application. The reports said "investigative document."

Does he know something? Or is he just being his usual stupid self? Inquiring minds . . .

Edit: Oh. And it's "historic" and "went all the way to the top," i.e. President Obama, according to twitler. Of course it is. Everything is the biggest and best.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#11

Post by SLQ »

From Fox (which I went to just to see how much they're hyping this, they seem to have a little more information (grains. salt), although it could have come from WaPo, which the article mentions, and I haven't looked at:
The new evidence concerning the altered document, which pertained to the FBI's FISA court warrant application to surveil Page, is expected to be outlined in Horowitz's upcoming report. CNN first reported the news, which was largely confirmed by The Washington Post.
:snippity:
Horowitz reportedly found that the FBI employee who modified the FISA document falsely stated that he had "documentation to back up a claim he had made in discussions with the Justice Department about the factual basis" for the FISA warrant application, the Post reported. Then, the FBI employee allegedly "altered an email" to substantiate his inaccurate version of events. The employee has since been forced out of the bureau.
This seems awfully fuzzy and much ado about nothing.

ETA: Link https://www.foxnews.com/politics/horowi ... e-document
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#12

Post by SLQ »

Oh.
The Justice Department inspector general has found evidence that an FBI employee may have altered a document connected to court-approved surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser, but has concluded that the conduct did not affect the overall validity of the surveillance application, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

The person under scrutiny is a low-level FBI lawyer who has since been forced out of the agency, according to the officials, who spoke onthe condition of anonymity to discuss material that has not yet been made public. They declined to identify the lawyer.
:snippity:
The employee was forced out of the FBI after the incident was discovered, two U.S. officials said. Horowitz found that the employee erroneously indicated he had documentation to back up a claim he had made in discussions with the Justice Department about the factual basis for the application. He then altered an email to back up that erroneous claim, they said.

That conduct did not alter Horowitz’s finding that the surveillance application of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page had a proper legal and factual basis, the officials said.
So as not to violate the 4 paragraph rule, the article says this information comes from a draft of Horowitz' report, which witnesses have been allowed to review recently.

From WaPo. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#13

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SLQ wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:02 am
Oh.
The Justice Department inspector general has found evidence that an FBI employee may have altered a document connected to court-approved surveillance of a former Trump campaign adviser, but has concluded that the conduct did not affect the overall validity of the surveillance application, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

The person under scrutiny is a low-level FBI lawyer who has since been forced out of the agency, according to the officials, who spoke onthe condition of anonymity to discuss material that has not yet been made public. They declined to identify the lawyer.
:snippity:
The employee was forced out of the FBI after the incident was discovered, two U.S. officials said. Horowitz found that the employee erroneously indicated he had documentation to back up a claim he had made in discussions with the Justice Department about the factual basis for the application. He then altered an email to back up that erroneous claim, they said.

That conduct did not alter Horowitz’s finding that the surveillance application of former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page had a proper legal and factual basis, the officials said.
From WaPo. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html
So he was basically covering his own ass, not someone else's.

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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#14

Post by SLQ »

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:03 am
So he was basically covering his own ass, not someone else's.
Yeah, and he was low level. The Fox article says the WaPo article had originally said the low-level lawyer was underneath Peter Strzok, but that information was "stealth deleted" :roll: for reasons Fox can't fathom.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#15

Post by SLQ »

CNN has updated its article to reflect the WaPo info:
After CNN first reported on the investigation, the Washington Post reported that the inspector general concluded the alteration did not change the validity of the surveillance application.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/21/politics ... index.html
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#16

Post by SLQ »

Also, too, if this is the worst of it, it seems the Horiwitz report will be a big nothingburder. I suspect that this is the "criminal investigation" trumpeted recently (by Hannity?)
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#17

Post by Slim Cognito »

But, but....CNN and WaPo are fake news so they obviously aren't reporting the dire nature of the report.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#18

Post by SLQ »

Last thing. Buried deep in the Fox article is this, which does indicate that this is the "criminal investigation" that the FISA investigation has turned in to:
Durham has reportedly taken up Horowitz's findings concerning the falsified FISA document, meaning the ex-FBI lawyer who made the changes is now under criminal investigation. The Post indicated, however, that the document was not central to the legality of the FISA warrant obtained against Page.
despite the beginning of the article, which says this:
The show-stopping development comes as Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told Fox News that Horowitz's comprehensive report on allegations of Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant abuse against former Trump campaign aide Carter Page will be released on Dec. 9.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#19

Post by Slim Cognito »

So it's only "show stopping" bc the republicans have chosen to frame it as show stopping.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#20

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The typographical error on the FISA is the greatest injustice in American history.

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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#21

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Jeffrey wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:41 am
The typographical error on the FISA is the greatest injustice in American history.
Well, there was no typographical error on the FISA application. There was a low-level lawyer who erroneously said he/she had some information and, (allegedly) when he/she realized he/she didn't, he/she (alledgely) doctored an e-mail to cover the error. The CNN article says he/she was confronted with the alteration and admitted it.

But, yes, this is the greatest injustice in American history, according to DOTUS.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#22

Post by SLQ »

Slim Cognito wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:38 am
So it's only "show stopping" bc the republicans have chosen to frame it as show stopping.
:yeah: The headline also calls it a "BOMBSHELL." But no shows were stopped and no bombs were shelled.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#23

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I wonder why they even need something like this. Didn't DOTUS already announce that the impeachment inquiry was OVER? :twisted:
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#24

Post by Whatever4 »

Foggy wrote:
Fri Nov 22, 2019 10:53 am
I wonder why they even need something like this. Didn't DOTUS already announce that the impeachment inquiry was OVER? :twisted:
They need this BOMBSHELL because with the holiday, and the report not coming out until Dec 9, Fox needs something to drive into their viewers brains to counter Dr. Hill, etc. testimony.
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Re: Senate Judiciary: Dec 11 2019; Testimony, DOJ IG Horowitz Re FISA, Russia Probe

#25

Post by Kendra »


Remember: Republicans had majority control over **both houses of congress*** when all this happened back in 2015/2016 and they held NOT ONE HEARING about it because it was it was not worthy of their oversight! They were chasing Benghazi at the time to damage Clinton.

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