James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

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much ado
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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#276

Post by much ado » Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:59 pm

RVInit wrote:I think the answer to the question of whether or not their are tapes - might possibly depend on whether or not said recordings can be edited. If he has recordings, the only way we will ever know about it is if they find someone who can doctor them effectively. If so, then they will be produced as proof. If not, they won't. I'm guessing they won't. Maybe this is why he can't answer the question yet - he doesn't yet know that nobody will be able to edit his recordings in a way that makes them sound like they haven't been edited. I'm not even joking. I believe the orange turd would try to do this.
I hope he believes he has passed them to someone who can edit them effectively, but can't, and it is convincing revealed that the recordings have be altered.

For those who don't remember Rose Mary Woods and her role with the Watergate tapes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Mary_Woods



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#277

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:07 pm

MsDaisy wrote:
AndyinPA wrote:I've read that 45 has been suspected of perjury under oath more than once, so his promises to testify under oath mean nothing. It never did; it never will.
You're right, his word is about "as useless as tits on a bull hog" (to quote my poor departed mother). I doubt he'd have the slightest problem lying through his teeth under oath, just as he lies to everyone about anything that suits him any time it suits him. In Donald Trump's world truth and reality are what he says they are, period. :nope:
I think it is important to remember that Trump is not a liar -- liars know the truth, they just don't tell it -- he's a bullshitter. He crowds out the truth with false equivalences and bullshit never caring about what's true or not, just how what he says can help him. This makes him far more dangerous as every moment he is taken seriously delegitimizes the truth.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#278

Post by Slim Cognito » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:03 pm

RVInit wrote:I think the answer to the question of whether or not their are tapes - might possibly depend on whether or not said recordings can be edited. If he has recordings, the only way we will ever know about it is if they find someone who can doctor them effectively. If so, then they will be produced as proof. If not, they won't. I'm guessing they won't. Maybe this is why he can't answer the question yet - he doesn't yet know that nobody will be able to edit his recordings in a way that makes them sound like they haven't been edited. I'm not even joking. I believe the orange turd would try to do this.
A modern day version of Nixon's lost 18 minutes?


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#279

Post by AndyinPA » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:05 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
MsDaisy wrote:
AndyinPA wrote:I've read that 45 has been suspected of perjury under oath more than once, so his promises to testify under oath mean nothing. It never did; it never will.
You're right, his word is about "as useless as tits on a bull hog" (to quote my poor departed mother). I doubt he'd have the slightest problem lying through his teeth under oath, just as he lies to everyone about anything that suits him any time it suits him. In Donald Trump's world truth and reality are what he says they are, period. :nope:
I think it is important to remember that Trump is not a liar -- liars know the truth, they just don't tell it -- he's a bullshitter. He crowds out the truth with false equivalences and bullshit never caring about what's true or not, just how what he says can help him. This makes him far more dangerous as every moment he is taken seriously delegitimizes the truth.
Well, I think he qualifies as both a liar and a bullshitter. Which was he when he said he had the tapes?



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#280

Post by much ado » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:10 pm

Slim Cognito wrote:
RVInit wrote:I think the answer to the question of whether or not their are tapes - might possibly depend on whether or not said recordings can be edited. If he has recordings, the only way we will ever know about it is if they find someone who can doctor them effectively. If so, then they will be produced as proof. If not, they won't. I'm guessing they won't. Maybe this is why he can't answer the question yet - he doesn't yet know that nobody will be able to edit his recordings in a way that makes them sound like they haven't been edited. I'm not even joking. I believe the orange turd would try to do this.
A modern day version of Nixon's lost 18 minutes?
From The Washington Post (June 16, 2014):

The missing 18 1/2 minutes: Presidential destruction of incriminating evidence
The Washington Post wrote:Nixon’s Secretary Rose Mary Woods took the blame for the first five minutes of the erasure. She said that she had been transcribing the tape, and when she reached to take a phone call, her foot hit a pedal on the recording machine, inadvertently causing the tape player to “record” over the original tape’s contents. Reporters were called to the White House to watch her perform a re-enactment, and the photos of her performing a tremendous stretch, which she supposedly held for five minutes, were rejected as implausible. Moreover, the particular tape recording machine does not operate the way she had claimed; simply pressing the foot pedal to “record” would not initiate a recording unless the play button was being manually depressed at the very same time.

Chief of Staff Alexander Haig blamed the 18 1/2 minute gap on a “sinister force.” In January 1974, experts who examined the tape reported that were four or five separate erasures.

Nixon was determined to hold on, and while his support among Democrats and Independents had collapsed, he retained the support of a dwindling majority of Republicans.



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#281

Post by Jim » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:17 pm

It's what the Trump mob can do to destroy the country before they get tossed that worries me...order defenses to stand down against the Ruskies?



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#282

Post by ZekeB » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:20 pm

AndyinPA wrote:Well, I think he qualifies as both a liar and a bullshitter. Which was he when he said he had the tapes?
I'm a bullshitter. The difference between Trump and me is I know when my audience is onto me. Trump just keeps babbling on and on, thinking nobody knows the difference.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#283

Post by Slartibartfast » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:23 pm

AndyinPA wrote:Well, I think he qualifies as both a liar and a bullshitter. Which was he when he said he had the tapes?
He was bullshitting (saying what he thought most helpful at the time irrespective of its truthfulness). He is always bullshitting. Lies are the result of a decision to say something that you know isn't true. Trump doesn't know or care what is true, hence he is not lying, just spewing bullshit. They are very different tactics with different purposes and effects.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#284

Post by much ado » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:34 pm

Jim wrote:It's what the Trump mob can do to destroy the country before they get tossed that worries me...order defenses to stand down against the Ruskies?
I can only see him doing that if he could make money off the transaction.



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#285

Post by Jim » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:37 pm

much ado wrote:
Jim wrote:It's what the Trump mob can do to destroy the country before they get tossed that worries me...order defenses to stand down against the Ruskies?
I can only see him doing that if he could make money off the transaction.
Or cut his debt to them.



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#286

Post by MsDaisy » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:37 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
MsDaisy wrote:
AndyinPA wrote:I've read that 45 has been suspected of perjury under oath more than once, so his promises to testify under oath mean nothing. It never did; it never will.
You're right, his word is about "as useless as tits on a bull hog" (to quote my poor departed mother). I doubt he'd have the slightest problem lying through his teeth under oath, just as he lies to everyone about anything that suits him any time it suits him. In Donald Trump's world truth and reality are what he says they are, period. :nope:
I think it is important to remember that Trump is not a liar -- liars know the truth, they just don't tell it -- he's a bullshitter. He crowds out the truth with false equivalences and bullshit never caring about what's true or not, just how what he says can help him. This makes him far more dangerous as every moment he is taken seriously delegitimizes the truth.
Oh you’re exactly right about that Stari, he is the unquestionable king of bullshit, but I think he knows the truth as well as we do. He’s not nearly as stupid as he thinks most of his followers are. He also knows that in the eyes of his faithful followers he can easily make his own reality the real reality no matter how far fetched because they will eat up anything he says, he is their only truth. And the scariest thing of all is that this man is currently holding the most powerful position in the free world.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#287

Post by Gregg » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:10 pm

If he has tapes, they need to be public, and if he doesn't, the whole charade around acting like he might amounts to either witness intimidation of obstruction of justice.

I think he has recordings, (not tapes) and if push comes to shove the fact that they are digital and not memorex will be used as some legal distinction of why he does,t have to...something.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#288

Post by Kendra » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:36 pm

Question, I am confused about Trump's comments today from the Rose Garden re: Comey and the loyalty pledge. Trump's words are about pledging ' 'allegiance' and under oath at that. IMHO allegiance is a bit more than loyalty, but WTF is this under oath crap? Was Trump expecting Comey to kneel at his feet and swear allegiance to Henry II to the great orange one?



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#289

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:01 pm

Gregg wrote:If he has tapes, they need to be public, and if he doesn't, the whole charade around acting like he might amounts to either witness intimidation of obstruction of justice.

I think he has recordings, (not tapes) and if push comes to shove the fact that they are digital and not memorex will be used as some legal distinction of why he does,t have to...something.
:thumbs:


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#290

Post by Notorial Dissent » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:34 pm

Kendra wrote:Question, I am confused about Trump's comments today from the Rose Garden re: Comey and the loyalty pledge. Trump's words are about pledging ' 'allegiance' and under oath at that. IMHO allegiance is a bit more than loyalty, but WTF is this under oath crap? Was Trump expecting Comey to kneel at his feet and swear allegiance to Henry II to the great orange one?
Isn't that what all vassals and chattel are supposed to do before teh Great One????? :sick:


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#291

Post by Kendra » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:58 pm

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/09/j ... ht-revenge

From Faux News and Judge what's her name...
Judge Jeanine Pirro said former FBI Director James Comey is a "predator" who sought "revenge" by leaking his private memos about meetings with President Trump.

"He is an operator. He is part of the Washington elite," the judge told the hosts of "Fox & Friends."

The now-fired FBI Director testified to Congress on Thursday, dropping multiple bombshells including that he had leaked private conversations between him and the president in which he said he felt pressured to end the investigation into former national security advisor Michael Flynn.

Pirro commented that Comey comes across as "so wily and so calculating," and said she thinks he was looking to take the president down.

"It's clearly about revenge. This is a setup," she stated, referring to Comey's expressed hope that his leaks would prompt the appointment of a special counsel to investigate the Trump campaign.



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#292

Post by Gregg » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:00 pm

Will no one rid us all of this low born clerk orange huckster?

(the actual quote was probably "What miserable drones and traitors have I nourished and brought up in my household, who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born cleric?") I think that's really better one than the much shorter soundbite created for the play/movie.

Image


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#293

Post by Kendra » Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:03 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Kendra wrote:Question, I am confused about Trump's comments today from the Rose Garden re: Comey and the loyalty pledge. Trump's words are about pledging ' 'allegiance' and under oath at that. IMHO allegiance is a bit more than loyalty, but WTF is this under oath crap? Was Trump expecting Comey to kneel at his feet and swear allegiance to Henry II to the great orange one?
Isn't that what all vassals and chattel are supposed to do before teh Great One????? :sick:
I have read so many novels set in the medieval era. I keep picturing Trump thinking Comey is going to kneel, kiss the hand and swear allegiance to the ruler.



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#294

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:35 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
I think it is important to remember that Trump is not a liar -- liars know the truth, they just don't tell it -- he's a bullshitter. He crowds out the truth with false equivalences and bullshit never caring about what's true or not, just how what he says can help him. This makes him far more dangerous as every moment he is taken seriously delegitimizes the truth.
:like: :notworthy: :sterngard: :geezertowel:



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#295

Post by MN-Skeptic » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:16 am

Trump is well known for having used non-disclosure agreements for decades in virtually all personal and business relationships. He's also known for suing folks who break that agreement. The agreements also contain non-disparagement clauses as to him and virtually all his relatives and businesses.

So... aren't those agreements very similar to loyalty oaths? Trump couldn't force Comey to sign a non-disclosure/non-disparagement agreement, but he could ask for a pledge of loyalty.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#296

Post by Turtle » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:03 am

I doubt his lawyer is very happy about him wanting to testify under oath. What is most likely, someone makes a formal call for Trump to testify, his lawyer steps in and says there needs to be some ground rules. He will ask for something he knows they won't agree to, then go out in public and say Trump can't testify because there are no assurances he would be treated fairly.



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#297

Post by Foggy » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:06 am

Turtle is right, but Trump has no intention of testifying under oath. He's lying again when he says he will. You gotta remember, this guy tells 10 lies before breakfast, just to get warmed up for the day.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#298

Post by ZekeB » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:40 am

Trump lying under oath. Deja vu all over again. It seems Trump never studied or learned from history anyway.


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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#299

Post by AndyinPA » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:42 am

From what I'm seeing, the two factors being used to defend 45 by the right are that Comey is a leaker and 45 is an outsider who just doesn't understand the rules in DC.

The problem is there was nothing classified that Comey "leaked" and 45 had already commented on it and had not used executive privilege.

There are probably hours of tapes of 45 raging against the Clinton/Lynch meeting on the tarmac and how inappropriate that was, not to mention all the screaming about how Hillary had all kinds of conflicts of interest, so the DC outsider, poor him, just doesn't hold water either.



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Re: James Comey v Donald - Senate Intelligence Committee, Thu June 8 2017 10am

#300

Post by RoadScholar » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:22 pm

Slartibartfast wrote:
AndyinPA wrote:Well, I think he qualifies as both a liar and a bullshitter. Which was he when he said he had the tapes?
He was bullshitting (saying what he thought most helpful at the time irrespective of its truthfulness). He is always bullshitting. Lies are the result of a decision to say something that you know isn't true. Trump doesn't know or care what is true, hence he is not lying, just spewing bullshit. They are very different tactics with different purposes and effects.
Crap. Trump has lied and bullshitted, both. There are reports that he knew the Birther nonsense was false, but said otherwise in public; that's just one example.

The only thing he's incapable of is the truth.


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