Coal

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RTH10260
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Coal

#1

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:41 pm

Something more for Teh Donald to undo
Interior adopts controversial last-minute rule to make the coal industry cleaner
By Darryl Fears December 19 at 11:10 AM

The Obama administration finalized a rule Monday morning that aims to protect thousands of miles of streams by forcing coal mining companies “to avoid mining practices that permanently pollute streams, destroy drinking water sources … and threaten forests,” officials said in a statement.

Under the rule, which overhauls regulations in place for more than three decades, coal companies that have finished mining in an area will be required to restore the land to the same condition that existed before digging began. Interior Secretary Sally Jewell called the new regulations “a balanced approach to meeting the nation’s energy needs.”

In the statement, released before the rule was published in the Federal Register, she noted that the administration “worked closely with many stakeholders to craft a plan that protects water quality, supports economic opportunities, safeguards our environment and makes coalfield communities more resilient.”

But the announcement, coming a month before power is handed over to a new presidential administration, is almost certain to anger coal companies and conservative Republicans. The rule likely will be an early target of President-elect Donald Trump, who pledged during his campaign to help turn around an industry beset by debt, job losses and declining profits — all of which make the cleanup requirements of a 1977 federal law more difficult.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ene ... y-cleaner/



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Re: Coal

#2

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:51 pm

June 1, 2017
Trump's right: A coal mine is opening soon. It will create 70 jobs
by Matt Egan June 1, 2017: 6:42 PM ET

President Trump declared the "mines are starting to open up" across America's beleaguered coal country.

While blasting the Paris climate accord as unfair to coal miners, Trump pointed to the "opening of a brand-new mine." It opens soon and he's been invited to attend when it does, the president added.

Trump didn't name the facility, but the Acosta Coal Mine in western Pennsylvania is set to open on June 8.

The mine will produce coal used for steelmaking and is expected to create 70 to 100 full-time jobs, according to owner Corsa Coal.

Corsa Coal confirmed to CNNMoney that Trump has been invited to attend the ceremony, though the company said it hasn't received a. response from the administration yet

"I was elected to represent the citizens of Pittsburgh, not Paris," Trump said Thursday.

Trump said that mine openings are rare these days. He's right about that, though there was at least one other one recently: Ramaco Resources started operating the Elk Creek Mine in West Virginia late last year and it plans to open a few more.

So coal is roaring back? Not quite
. :snippity:
The Acosta Coal Mine and others set to open make what's known as metallurgical coal, which doesn't face as much competition from cheap natural gas. :snippity:
http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/01/investi ... index.html



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Re: Coal

#3

Post by RTH10260 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:53 pm

and now:
First New Coal Mine of Trump Era Opens in Pennsylvania

Jun 10, 2017 // 1:09pm

President Trump lauded the opening of the nation's first new coal mine in many years.

Corsa Coal Company will operate the mine in Somerset County, Pa. - outside of Pittsburgh.

Corsa CEO George Dethlefsen said the mine will be a boon to the struggling local economy.

He praised Trump's easing of regulations and encouragement for fossil fuel exploration.

Dethlefsen told Leland Vittert that for the 70 positions available for work in the mine, 400 people applied.

"It's a hard day's work every day, but it's worth it," one miner said.

Vittert said the news contrasts with Hillary Clinton's message that she would "put a lot of coal miners out of work."
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/06/10/n ... egulations


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JyFMxRJNJg



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Re: Coal

#4

Post by Volkonski » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:10 pm

AP FACT CHECK: Pruitt blows smoke over coal jobs and climate

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStor ... s-47851988
PRUITT, pushing back on whether the president is overstating his ability to bring back long lost coal-mining jobs, credited Trump with creating almost 50,000 jobs "in the coal sector" since the fourth quarter of last year. "In the month of May alone, almost 7,000 jobs," Pruitt told NBC's "Meet the Press."

THE FACTS: He's wildly off base. Instead of adding almost 50,000 jobs in the last few months, coal mining accounted for a total of only 51,000 jobs nationally at the end of May. That's only up about 400 jobs from the prior month, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Asked about Pruitt's claim of 50,000 new coal jobs, his staff on Monday pointed to statistics encompassing seven months of job gains across the far broader "mining" sector. That includes not just coal but also oil and gas extraction, metal ore mining, stone quarrying and other unrelated jobs. Three of the months Pruitt's staff is counting were while Barack Obama was still president.


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Re: Coal

#5

Post by Volkonski » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:14 pm

Large coal plant closures reveal industry vulnerability

http://trib.com/business/energy/large-c ... ced2e.html
Now a number of larger, relatively young plants are facing shutdown in the next few years, a disturbing change that number crunchers are still analyzing. The Navajo Generating Station in Arizona, the San Juan Generating Station in New Mexico and part of Colstrip in Montana are some of the most familiar names. But large plants in Ohio and Florida have also joined the mix.

:snippity:

The cheapest fuel sources, which are renewables like wind and hydro, always sell first. Coal used to sell next, but since natural gas prices have fallen, gas has shouldered out coal as the cheapest fuel for baseload power, he said.

These large plants were designed to run at high capacity, creating large amounts of electricity to meet demand. When they are scaled back or shut down because cheaper fuels are available, operators say they are too expensive to keep online, Godby said.


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Re: Coal

#6

Post by RoadScholar » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:22 pm

I would imagine the cost analysis of gas vs. coal is not just a matter of the commodity price per se, but also the handling and processing costs, no?


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Re: Coal

#7

Post by Slartibartfast » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:04 am

Cross-posting from "President Trump" thread because it seems more relevant here.
tek wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote: I was talking with my cousin today (he's CEO of a large company) and he was saying that even if we could make every car on the road electric with replacing/recharge stations all we would be doing is trading gas powered cars for coal-fired ones.
Or solar-powered.. or wind-powered.. or hydroelectric-powered.. or etc.
His point (and it is a valid one), is that it would just be rearranging our carbon footprint, not reducing it. For shits and giggles, some numbers:

The US gets 15% of its electricity from renewables and 20% from nuclear. Even Europe is under 30% from renewables which is just under 1,000 terrawatt hours per year. The total energy production for the US is just over 4,000 terrawatt hours (so US renewables are about 600 terrawatt hours. Total energy demand if all US light vehicles were electric would be over 1,000 terrawatt hours (well over total European renewable production and likely easily double US production), assuming off-peak overnight charging, etc. The Slate article linked below calculated a 6.5% net decrease in carbon emissions under this scenario. Which is optimistic and would be very costly if it were even feasible at all.

Personally, I think we need to get much more bang for our buck. I'd go with nuclear as a stop-gap (an immediate and significant reduction in carbon footprint) with intelligent incentives for expanding and improving renewable generation and hybrid cars (much more bang for the buck while still using current infrastructure) while putting long term investment into a variety of fusion technologies. As power capacity and battery technology improve, electric cars will eventually become viable (which can be helped but not forced by the government). But that's just me.

Maybe someday Trump will realize that energy policy is complicated. [just trying to stay on-topic. :towel: ]

I borrowed some numbers from this Slate article from 3 years ago (still worth the read)
If all US cars suddenly became electric, how much energy would we need to fuel them?


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Re: Coal

#8

Post by Volkonski » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:53 am

RoadScholar wrote:I would imagine the cost analysis of gas vs. coal is not just a matter of the commodity price per se, but also the handling and processing costs, no?
Yes. Also, the average coal fired power plant is 33% efficient while the average combined cycle gas power plant is 45% efficient and the new "H Class" combined cycle gas power plants can be up to 60% efficient.


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Re: Coal

#9

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:00 am

Thank you and a big hug to my fellow Fogbowzers for this cost-benefit analysis.


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Re: Coal

#10

Post by Volkonski » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:33 pm

In Blow to ‘Clean Coal,’ Flawed Plant Will Burn Gas Instead

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/28/clim ... ef=climate
The Kemper County plant, built to take advantage of a strip coal mine next door, was three years behind schedule and, at a cost of about $7.5 billion, $4 billion over its projected budget. Equipment meant to turn the coal into gas and remove at least two-thirds of the carbon dioxide from it to keep it out of the atmosphere never worked as designed.

Last week, the Mississippi Public Service Commission issued an ultimatum about the troubled project, setting a deadline of July 6 to begin negotiations on its future and recommending that it run on natural gas. The commission had proposed that most of the billions of dollars in losses from the plant be absorbed by shareholders, not by electricity ratepayers.

The lignite coal that is mined adjacent to the Kemper County plant emits more climate-warming carbon dioxide per unit of heat than other coal, and far more than natural gas. Southern had intended the plant to demonstrate how even the dirtiest coal could be cleaned up. But in their statement last week, the state regulators referred to it as “unproven technology” that put shareholders and customers at financial risk.

The plant has been running on gas for most of the past three years as engineers tried to get the gasifying equipment to work properly. In all, only a tiny amount of carbon dioxide — about 92,000 tons — has been captured. A typical coal plant produces about three million tons of the gas per year.
This project has been in trouble for a long time.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/05/scie ... sippi.html

This plant was supposed to be a coal gasification plant with carbon dioxide removal. Those technologies are well understood. People have been gasifying coal for over 100 years. This failure seems to be one by management that did not establish a realistic project schedule.


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Re: Coal

#11

Post by Volkonski » Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:47 pm

Trump's coal industry supporters don't like the free market. ;)

I am surprised that Trump has chosen to disappoint them.

A coal country dispute over an alleged Trump promise unmet

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... 57c90e9aec
The Trump administration has rejected a coal industry push to win a rarely used emergency order protecting coal-fired power plants, a decision contrary to what one coal executive said the president personally promised him.
:snippity:
President Donald Trump committed to the measure in private conversations with executives from Murray Energy Corp. and FirstEnergy Solutions Corp. after public events in July and early August, according to letters to the White House from Murray Energy and its chief executive, Robert Murray. In the letters, obtained by The Associated Press, Murray said failing to act would cause thousands of coal miners to be laid off and put the pensions of thousands more in jeopardy. One of Murray’s letters said Trump agreed and told Energy Secretary Rick Perry, “I want this done” in Murray’s presence.
:snippity:
Murray’s company is seeking a two-year moratorium on closures of coal-fired power plants, which would be an unprecedented federal intervention in the nation’s energy markets. The company said invoking the provision under the Power Act was “the only viable mechanism” to protect the reliability of the nation’s power supply.

Murray told the White House that his key customer, Ohio-based electricity company FirstEnergy Solutions, was at immediate risk of bankruptcy. Without FirstEnergy’s plants burning his coal, Murray said his own company would be forced into “immediate bankruptcy,” triggering the layoffs of more than 6,500 miners. FirstEnergy acknowledged to the AP that bankruptcy of its power-generation business was a possibility.


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Re: Coal

#12

Post by tek » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:35 pm

FirstEnergy is the Keystone Cops of the electricity biz.. Does not surprise me that they are palling around with Murray, nor that they are headed for bankruptcy.


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Re: Coal

#13

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:12 am

It'll all be OK now that Trump has promised us they are going to clean the coal first. :brickwallsmall:


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Re: Coal

#14

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:44 am

RoadScholar wrote:It'll all be OK now that Trump has promised us they are going to clean the coal first. :brickwallsmall:
Time to corner the market for coal brushes :lol:



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Re: Coal

#15

Post by Volkonski » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:49 am

As long as the price of natural gas remains as low as it is we don't need to worry very much about an increase in coal usage.


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Re: Coal

#16

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:58 am

Volkonski wrote:As long as the price of natural gas remains as low as it is we don't need to worry very much about an increase in coal usage.
After which the price to kick-start the coal mines back to life is hopefully prohibitive.



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Re: Coal

#17

Post by ZekeB » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:13 am

Volkonski wrote:As long as the price of natural gas remains as low as it is we don't need to worry very much about an increase in coal usage.
Some power companies may delay the inevitable for another three and a half years, but those in the know are planning right now for the day when the OSG no longer holds the reins. It's too bad those who think their livelihoods have been saved will hurt the most. It just gets harder to find a new career as you start your working career or you put on the years in a dead end job..


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Re: Coal

#18

Post by Volkonski » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:55 pm

Rick Perry Wanted to Prove the Obama Administration Killed Coal. But the Facts Got in the Way

http://time.com/4913856/rick-perry-trum ... udy-obama/
The Energy Department released an official version of the study late Wednesday saying that cheap natural gas prices, driven by a boom in domestic natural gas production, have led to the decline in coal-fired power plants. The report also acknowledges that renewables have not threatened grid reliability.

"We got into this position because the administration violated one of the cardinal rules they teach young lawyers in law school," said Don Furman, a former executive at the PacifiCorp electric utility and director of Fix the Grid West, a nonprofit that advocates for renewables. "Never ask a question you don't know the answer to."


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Re: Coal

#19

Post by RTH10260 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:17 am

Trevor Noahs partner Hasan Minhaj heads to Kentucky to find out whether President Trump is holding up his campaign promise to revitalize the coal industry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy9lR-K4-Pc



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Re: Coal

#20

Post by Volkonski » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:46 pm



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Re: Coal

#21

Post by neeneko » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:46 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:46 pm
Sad thing is, the GoP does the same thing with small business owners. They are great to hold up as 'people you are going to help' in selling policies to the public, and they are easy to get enthusiastic about stuff they are told will help them, but they lack the background to actually evaluate the promise and end up voting against their own interests because of it.



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Re: Coal

#22

Post by bob » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:26 pm

CNN: Coal CEO: Senate tax plan 'wipes us out':
Coal CEO Robert Murray warns that if the Senate version of tax reform is enacted by President Trump he'll be destroying thousands of coal mining jobs in the process.

"We won't have enough cash flow to exist. It wipes us out," Murray told CNNMoney in an interview on Tuesday.

Murray, a fierce supporter of Trump's efforts to revive coal, condemned the Senate bill as a "mockery" that would inflict a devastating tax hike on beleaguered coal mining firms as well as other capital-intensive companies.

"This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal," said Murray, the CEO of Murray Energy, one of America's largest coal companies.

The tax bill the Senate passed last week would help companies by lowering the corporate tax rate, but it also eliminates some tax breaks.

For coal companies, it could be a double-whammy. It would preserve the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) and impose new limits on the interest payments that businesses can write off. Murray Energy estimates that these changes would raise its tax bill by $60 million per year.
I'm sure John Oliver would have been thrilled to do a segment about Murray's predicament, but....


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Re: Coal

#23

Post by ZekeB » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:13 am

General Electric slashing 12,000 jobs
General Electric Co. will cut 12,000 jobs in its power division as alternative energy supplants demand for coal and other fossil fuels.
There you go, coal miners who voted for Trump. Never mind retraining for another field. Trump's majik pen saved the day. Or did it?


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Re: Coal

#24

Post by Volkonski » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:20 am

ZekeB wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:13 am
General Electric slashing 12,000 jobs
General Electric Co. will cut 12,000 jobs in its power division as alternative energy supplants demand for coal and other fossil fuels.
There you go, coal miners who voted for Trump. Never mind retraining for another field. Trump's majik pen saved the day. Or did it?
Another thing that has reduced the demand for electric power is increased efficiency of electric devices. LED and fluorescent light bulbs use much less energy than incandescent bulbs. Smart phones and tablets and even laptops use less energy than desktop computers.


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Re: Coal

#25

Post by AndyinPA » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:32 am

I saw this yesterday on my FB feed from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, but I'm not having any luck finding the article in the paper online, but I think this link is the same story, although I can't find a date.It's too short for a quote.

http://www.wqbe.com/northern-west-virgi ... ne-closes/

So West Virginia is losing nearly 300 coal mining jobs. What's 45 have to say about this?

Edited to add this link with a little more information.

http://www.post-gazette.com/powersource ... 1712050118



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