Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

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Reality Check
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Reality Check »

Something I never realized before but there are two NA Congressmen from Oklahoma and both are Republican. Tom Cole is a Chickasaw and Markwayne Mullin is Cherokee. I think I might know where the CNO statement came from.

Oh yeah, Mullin is all over TV calling for Warren to apologize.
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Lani
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Lani »

I've been avoiding this thread, but each time I return, it's several pages longer. :cantlook: I also managed to keep myself from posting again ... until now.

So a couple of comments on some statements I've read here. Warren wasn't once told a family story by her grandmother. She was first told by her mom as an explanation about not having a tradition family wedding. Other relatives including her aunt have spoken about her father's family looking down on her mother's family for generations because of an NA family member and the tension between the two families.

No, Warren didn't grow up without knowing any NA people. Her classmates ranged from no NA family members, to a distant family member, to full NA. Her high school classmates said it was a topic discussed among them. They also noticed that the more a student looked NA, the more differently that student was treated compared to whitey whites. They grew up in a town where businesses had signs stating No Indians Allowed.

Would one lie on a census or other document that one was part NA when in fact the person was "Negro" or "Mulatto"? That might depend on where the person lived. My California relatives were appalled by the treatment of Blacks until - in their words - they realized that the "coloreds" were like "Indians". You know, lesser beings with lower IQs and no morals who raped, drank, stole, lied, etc.

So apparently Warren checked a box about being a minority, or NA, or more than one race. I did that once, too, when I was coming to grips with some information I found while looking into the family tree. There was one legal document that chilled me because it was so awful and racist. I was sorting out a lot of family history lies when I had to check a box on a paper. I think it was the EEOC collection of data about companies. (Employers don't see the individual surveys, btw.) I stared at the form for awhile because I didn't know what to do. It kinda confronted me about the data I was finding. Then I x'd "more than one race" because I wanted to honor the lives of the lost family members. (I better not run for office.)

I get the strong feelings about cultural appropriation, and Warren grew up as a white women with all its benefits. But DNA is DNA, and she has every right to acknowledge her distant grandmother. YMMV.

I've got a few issues with Warren, but recognizing an ancestor isn't one of them.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

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My pet peeve: JT does not have the power to stifle your First Amendment rights. Only the government can do that and, when it does, that is a violation of freedom of speech. Private citizens cannot violate another person's "freedom of speech."
maydijo wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:13 pm What "they" do is up to them. I refuse to shut up just because "they" might get some enjoyment out of me speaking out. I have the right to say that I'm uncomfortable with Senator Warren presenting herself in a certain way; and for so many people here to take me to task for it is to play right into "their" hands, because "they" are the side who want to stifle dissent. We support free speech? Then let's show it in our treatment to each other. We can't say we support our Constitutional rights if we pressure each other into not practicing them.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by SLQ »

John Thomas8 wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:38 pm
Mikedunford wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:34 pm
maydijo wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:29 pm I'm not fine with her saying she IS (fill in the blank) when it's based on nothing but family legend.
And before anyone starts with the "she didn't say she was" thing again:

She checked the box to designate herself as a minority faculty member. That's an explicit claim to be a member of a minority group. There's no reasonable way to read that as just meaning "had some distant heritage."
That assumes she checked it and not someone in the department filling a quota.
Is it possible she checked the optional box upon employment that asks about race and ethnicity? https://work.chron.com/ask-race-job-app ... 31050.html
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Suranis »

SLQ wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:27 am
Is it possible she checked the optional box upon employment that asks about race and ethnicity? https://work.chron.com/ask-race-job-app ... 31050.html
Considering she didn't do it on the 2 other places we have where she was employed at, probably not. She ticked the Race checkpoint as white and left the Native American one blank.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by maydijo »

SLQ wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:21 am My pet peeve: JT does not have the power to stifle your First Amendment rights. Only the government can do that and, when it does, that is a violation of freedom of speech. Private citizens cannot violate another person's "freedom of speech."
maydijo wrote: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:13 pm What "they" do is up to them. I refuse to shut up just because "they" might get some enjoyment out of me speaking out. I have the right to say that I'm uncomfortable with Senator Warren presenting herself in a certain way; and for so many people here to take me to task for it is to play right into "their" hands, because "they" are the side who want to stifle dissent. We support free speech? Then let's show it in our treatment to each other. We can't say we support our Constitutional rights if we pressure each other into not practicing them.
Okay, yeah, I get that. Mea culpa. But still. If we respect the principle of freedom of speech, we shouldn't go around trying to silence dissent. When we do that, we're not a lot better than they are. Trump's taken enough from me; I refuse to let him take my voice.
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Lani
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Lani »

So this happened...

Just about everything you’ve read on the Warren DNA test is wrong
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... ost&wpmm=1

Some snippets from the very informative article.
The RNC then issued a news release directing reporters to a 2014 New York Times report that said “European-Americans had genomes that were on average 98.6 percent European, .19 percent African, and .18 Native American.” So it sounded like Warren had less Native American DNA than the average European-American.
:snippity:
But it turns out reporters and politicians are not very good at understanding genetics. So we will set the record straight, after reviewing the results in detail and consulting with genetics experts.

Here’s where the reporting went off course. The report said that Warren had 10 times more Native American ancestry than the reference set from Utah, and 12 times more than the set from Britain. The report also said that the long segment on Chromosome 10 indicated that the DNA came from a relatively recent ancestor.
:snippity:
The most important point is this: The results in Warren’s DNA test are static. The percentage of Native American DNA in her genome does not shrink as you go back generations. There could be one individual in the sixth generation — living around the mid-1800s, which is similar to Warren family lore — or possibly a dozen or more ancestors back to the 10th generation, which would be about 250 years ago. Her results are consistent with a single ancestor, however.
Lots of info and graphs in the article about how the report was misunderstood (intentionally or otherwise). Also, the Bustamante study said she had 10 times more than the individuals from Utah, indicating that her claim to some Native American heritage is much stronger than most European Americans.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by John Thomas8 »

maydijo wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:27 pm


Okay, yeah, I get that. Mea culpa. But still. If we respect the principle of freedom of speech, we shouldn't go around trying to silence dissent. When we do that, we're not a lot better than they are. Trump's taken enough from me; I refuse to let him take my voice.
I'll leave this here again, since you're lying about my position for whatever reason:

My words were, if I recall, "You should be encouraged to post whatever you feel."

I'll stand by that.

I only point out that actions have consequences.


My position is neither wrong and nor has not changed.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by maydijo »

John Thomas8 wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:44 pm
maydijo wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:27 pm


Okay, yeah, I get that. Mea culpa. But still. If we respect the principle of freedom of speech, we shouldn't go around trying to silence dissent. When we do that, we're not a lot better than they are. Trump's taken enough from me; I refuse to let him take my voice.
I'll leave this here again, since you're lying about my position for whatever reason:

My words were, if I recall, "You should be encouraged to post whatever you feel."

I'll stand by that.

I only point out that actions have consequences.


My position is neither wrong and nor has not changed.
Not only are you not being entirely honest (you did also say, and I quote, "And for whatever else, flinging feces at each other while the other side is skull fucking the country into oblivion seems kinda....STUPID. Find the actual enemy, most politicians with an "R" after their name, and hammer them not each other," and later told me I'm responsible for the next Holocaust because of what I'm saying), I'm also not only talking about you. Nor do I intend to talk TO you again, after the way you behaved yesterday.
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Orlylicious »

Keep in mind the Warren response was a coldly calculated attack from the RNC War Room. They want to confuse and make people tune out. Be sure to vote!


Image

GOP war room blasts endless stream of criticism at Democrats, with Warren its latest target
The war room Wednesday at the Republican National Committee headquarters in Washington. (Bonnie Jo Mount/The Washington Post)
By Michael Scherer October 18 at 8:28 PM

The Republican Party’s research director, Mike Reed, found out about Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s DNA test before he got out of bed Monday. From his bedroom, the GOP attack machine started whirring. At the White House, President Trump and his aides initially played down the news. Adviser Kellyanne Conway told reporters “that doesn’t interest me” and Trump said “Who cares?” when asked about the new evidence that the Massachusetts Democrat had Native American heritage.

But the Republican story began to change at 9:46 a.m., when Reed blasted out his first email to thousands of reporters and allies, laying out new talking points for his side — that Warren’s test result showed a “minuscule” percentage of native heritage in her DNA and would not end the political problems that had beset her since opponents suggested she had advanced her career by claiming such ancestry.

“Having as little as 1/512th Native American ties does not give you the right to claim minority status,” he wrote — a quote that soon started showing up on Twitter feeds and in news stories across the country. It was just the beginning of a week-long anti-Warren onslaught that the Republican National Committee worked to orchestrate from its headquarters in Washington, an effort that helped blunt what Warren had hoped would be a moment of vindication before her likely 2020 presidential campaign.

And it was another trophy for a team of about 60 GOP researchers, bookers and attack dogs who spend their time churning out the ammunition that conservative media and Trump supporters use daily to pummel the president’s foes. The relentless stream of carefully curated — and sometimes misleading — political hits has been throwing Democrats off message for months while steadily stoking the daily fires of conservative outrage that power Trump’s political movement.

“I understand their weaponry, and frankly I don’t underestimate it at all,” said one aide to a Democrat considering a 2020 campaign, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss strategy. “They are really effective when they want to be. Within an hour, they are all on the same message and they are all pushing it.” The party operation — which includes a research shop of 15 and a 10-person war room that scans news and video streams for Democratic slip-ups — has established itself with a broad mandate that not only includes the midterm elections and the coming 2020 contest but also seeks to attack former Trump administration officials who criticize the president.

“We average over 1 million views a week on Twitter, and we have 15 million views on our YouTube page this cycle,” Reed said of the video component of the operation. “We have an extremely large megaphone.” Some Democrats have watched the operation with trepidation. They worry that Republicans have doubled down on online rapid response focused on protecting Trump and attacking his potential challengers while Democrats have refocused their resources, for the moment, on the midterm elections.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... 226d49d4e9
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Lani
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

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Orlylicious wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:08 pm Keep in mind the Warren response was a coldly calculated attack from the RNC War Room. They want to confuse and make people tune out. Be sure to vote!
:snippity:
And it always works, even on the Dems and leftees.
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by much ado »

Lani wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:06 pm
Orlylicious wrote: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:08 pm Keep in mind the Warren response was a coldly calculated attack from the RNC War Room. They want to confuse and make people tune out. Be sure to vote!
:snippity:
And it always works, even on the Dems and leftees.
and on us.
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Lani »

Yeah, I thought my comment included us. I should have expanded the categories.
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by much ado »

Lani wrote: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:59 am Yeah, I thought my comment included us. I should have expanded the categories.
Yeah, I thought you meant us, too. I just wanted to emphasize it.
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Fortinbras »

The fraction of 1/1024 is 2 to the tenth power. If that is the exact measurement of Sen. Warren's Amerindic ancestry it means that the American Indian ancestor was a full member of her family tree ten generations ago. That would seem to put that marriage back well before the Civil War, possibly farther back than the Revolutionary War.

I don't know where the Republican National Committee gets the idea that "most Americans" have an even larger proportion of Amerindic DNA. I was surprised to find out that I have one percent (or less) Irish ancestry (I am 98% Sefardic and Eastern European Jewish).

What that two-to-the tenth fraction does show is that Elizabeth Warren's family was here, in America, for the American Revolution, and possibly even earlier. It's nice to know there's a candidate who is probably qualified for DAR membership. In years to come, such candidates will be very scarce.
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Lani
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Lani »

Fortinbras wrote: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:01 am The fraction of 1/1024 is 2 to the tenth power. If that is the exact measurement of Sen. Warren's Amerindic ancestry it means that the American Indian ancestor was a full member of her family tree ten generations ago. That would seem to put that marriage back well before the Civil War, possibly farther back than the Revolutionary War.
Hey, Forti, look upthread. http://thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p1035642 "There could be one individual in the sixth generation — living around the mid-1800s, which is similar to Warren family lore ... — or possibly a dozen or more ancestors back to the 10th generation, which would be about 250 years ago. Her results are consistent with a single ancestor, however."
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

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Fortinbras wrote: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:01 am

What that two-to-the tenth fraction does show is that Elizabeth Warren's family was here, in America, for the American Revolution, and possibly even earlier. It's nice to know there's a candidate who is probably qualified for DAR membership. In years to come, such candidates will be very scarce.
Off Topic
I enjoy genealogy, but don't have the time to really delve into it. However, the internet has done much of it for me, with lots of family trees out there of very distant relatives that I can use since I know my own genealogy back to the Civil War for some branch. I am eligible for DAR membership, but I have never applied, because of its historically racist views. However, the front page of its homepage now boasts of its inclusivity and includes those whose african-american and native american ancestors served in the revolutionary war. I'd be curious what records they use for those situations. I also really wish Warren had released her genealogy, just because I find the topic so fascinating.
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Re: Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

Post by Reality Check »

Whatever happened to Lindsay Graham's DNA test? I guess the results showed he was 100% asshole and 0% native American?
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