Senator Warren Has Some Serious Class

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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#26

Post by Slim Cognito »

Dolly wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:18 pm
Trump: I’ll donate $1M for Warren if I can test her ‘personally’

President Trump said Monday he would only donate $1 million on behalf of Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) if he tests her claims of Native American ancestry “personally.”

“I’ll only do it if I can test her personally," Trump told reporters in Georgia.

He said testing Warren would "not be something I will enjoy.”
https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... personally
Seems legit.

Exactly what does he think "personally" would entail?
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#27

Post by Mikedunford »

The Cherokee Nation are somewhat less impressed with Senator Warren's efforts. Via Jake Tapper, on Twitter:








Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin Jr.:

"A DNA test is useless to determine tribal citizenship. Current DNA tests do not even distinguish whether a person’s ancestors were indigenous to North or South America. Sovereign tribal nations set their own legal requirements for citizenship, and while DNA tests can be used to determine lineage, such as paternity to an individual, it is not evidence for tribal affiliation. Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong. It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and its legitimate uses while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#28

Post by maydijo »

:yeah:

I have a friend who has two adopted children. They're both blonde. She's convinced they're part Native American and wants to get their DNA tested because she thinks, if they are, it'll mean they get free college tuition. I don't really have it in me to argue with her and tell her that tribal membership is not determined by DNA.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#29

Post by tek »

how the fuck is he going to test her "personally"?

JFC
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#30

Post by Mikedunford »

maydijo wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:59 pm :yeah:

I have a friend who has two adopted children. They're both blonde. She's convinced they're part Native American and wants to get their DNA tested because she thinks, if they are, it'll mean they get free college tuition. I don't really have it in me to argue with her and tell her that tribal membership is not determined by DNA.
Yeah. Family legend (not currently either confirmed or excluded by genealogical research) puts me at about the same level of Native American ancestry as Senator Warren. It's not something that I'd mention to an employer.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#31

Post by maydijo »

Mikedunford wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:09 pm
maydijo wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 5:59 pm :yeah:

I have a friend who has two adopted children. They're both blonde. She's convinced they're part Native American and wants to get their DNA tested because she thinks, if they are, it'll mean they get free college tuition. I don't really have it in me to argue with her and tell her that tribal membership is not determined by DNA.
Yeah. Family legend (not currently either confirmed or excluded by genealogical research) puts me at about the same level of Native American ancestry as Senator Warren. It's not something that I'd mention to an employer.
We had our DNA tested earlier this year. My husband's DNA showed that the equivalent of one great-grandparent was Jewish, which makes him more Jewish than Senator Warren is Native American. (He knows who his great-grandparents were and none of them identified as Jewish, so he suspects that it's a culmination of Jewish ancestry from a few ancestors, rather than one great-grandparent who was Jewish and converted.) He'll use it to claim joke telling immunity with his Jewish friends, but that's about it. It's not that he would care one way or another if other people thought he was Jewish, but it would feel fraudulent to him to call himself Jewish.

Funnily enough, his family is convinced they are part Aboriginal, with some claiming that another great-grandparent was half-Aboriginal. There is absolutely no trace - not even less than 1% - of Aboriginal ancestry. But this hasn't stopped his cousins from claiming they're part Aboriginal. (These cousins are very closely related, his mother's brother is their father and his father's sister is their mother, so they pretty much share the same DNA.)
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#32

Post by MsDaisy »

My personal DNA results only shows a trace Indian marker but there is DNA documentation of that marker linking me directly to Pocahontas which can also be traced through tribal records showing her to be my 9 times great grandmother. Which is another reason that Trump really pisses me off by calling Senator Warren “Pocahontas” as if it’s some kind of slur. :madguy:
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#33

Post by Jez »

We had a similar "family legend" from my Dad's side of the family. The men tend towards a darkish complexion with black hair and rather sparse facial hair. Then my brother, father and I did the Ancestry DNA test.

52% Germanic Europe
45% England, Wales & Northwestern Europe
3% Ireland and Scotland

In short: European. Not a drop of Native American blood in the family.

Ancestry recently "updated" their results because they have more sample to compare. It oddly leaves out my the area my mother's family was from, which was Odessa (Ukraine) and Budapest (Hungary). Sadly we didn't get mom tested before she passed away, so we'll never know her side of the family.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#34

Post by RTH10260 »

Slim Cognito wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:49 am He's on the WH lawn this morning saying he never said that.

https:// twitter.com/girlsreallyrule/status/1051832744093855744

and video of him saying it last summer

https:// twitter.com/real_farmacist/status/1051833742564753409
dotus will squirm from his promise, he said "if you are an 'indian'", not only having some distant relative.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#35

Post by Reality Check »

Mikedunford wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:09 pm
Yeah. Family legend (not currently either confirmed or excluded by genealogical research) puts me at about the same level of Native American ancestry as Senator Warren. It's not something that I'd mention to an employer.
Mike you should really do some research before spreading right wing lies. Warren did not claim to be Native American on a job or college application.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/eliza ... -american/
The former chairman of the American Association of Law Schools, David Bernstein, told the Herald that the group’s directory once served as a tip sheet for administrators. “In the old days before the Internet, you’d pull out the AALS directory and look up people,” he said. “There are schools that, if they were looking for a minority faculty member, would go to that list and might say, ‘I didn’t know Elizabeth Warren was a minority.'”Warren said she didn’t know Harvard had used her heritage as proof of diversity until reading about the issue in the news, according to a Herald report. She also denied that she ever tried to gain a professional advantage through her lineage.
Warren responded she was recruited for the positions and did not “apply” for them; and for the most part, her record did not indicate any identification as part of a minority group:
The Globe obtained a portion of Warren’s application to Rutgers, which asks if prospective students want to apply for admission under the school’s Program for Minority Group Students. Warren answered “no.”For her employment documents at the University of Texas, Warren indicated that she was “white.”

But Penn’s 2005 Minority Equity Report identified her as the recipient of a 1994 faculty award, listing her name in bold to signify that she was a minority.

The Herald has twice quoted Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, saying that the Democratic candidate’s heritage didn’t come up during the course of her hiring. “It simply played no role in the appointments process,” he said. “It was not mentioned and I didn’t mention it to the faculty.”

The Herald later quoted Fried, a former U.S. Solicitor General under President Ronald Reagan, saying, “I can state categorically that the subject of her Native American ancestry never once was mentioned.”
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#36

Post by Mikedunford »

Reality Check wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:58 pm
Mikedunford wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:09 pm
Yeah. Family legend (not currently either confirmed or excluded by genealogical research) puts me at about the same level of Native American ancestry as Senator Warren. It's not something that I'd mention to an employer.
Mike you should really do some research before spreading right wing lies. Warren did not claim to be Native American on a job or college application.
I did, and that's why I worded it the way I did. In fact, I looked at exactly the same source you cited -

From that article:
The legitimacy of Warren’s claims to Native American heritage has certainly been challenged by many critics, and it is true that while Warren was at U. Penn. Law School she put herself on the “Minority Law Teacher” list as Native American) in the faculty directory of the Association of American Law Schools, and that Harvard Law School at one time promoted Warren as a Native American faculty member.
She did not make the claim on a job or college application. She did mention it to her employers - that's how they knew to put her on the lists as such.

I also did not say that I thought it was wrong or inappropriate - just that it's not something I'd do.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#37

Post by Reality Check »

Your implication was that it was wrong at least by your standards. Why are you not owning up to that? So you read the Snopes article and still tried to attack Warren?

I don't even hint that right wing shit is true without presenting the all facts. It's just not something I would do. ;)

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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#38

Post by noblepa »

tek wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:00 pm how the fuck is he going to test her "personally"?

JFC
Watch her spit in a vial? That's how those things work.

Does he think she must pee in a bottle?
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#39

Post by Mikedunford »

Reality Check wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:28 pm Your implication was that it was wrong at least by your standards. Why are you not owning up to that? So you read the Snopes article and still tried to attack Warren?
1: If I thought it was wrong by my standards, I would have said so. I don't think I usually back away from making that kind of criticism.

I wouldn't feel comfortable identifying as "native" in any way, because I'm not - I'm so white you could read by me in a dark room. I don't, and never will, know what it actually is to be a Native American, so I wouldn't consider identifying as such. But it's a complex area, and not one where I think my own discomfort should be any kind of marker of an objective moral standard.

It's late, and I honestly don't remember exactly what Warren said her reasons were when the issue first came up. But I do remember thinking that while I didn't agree with them, I could see how someone could make those choices in good faith, thinking it was the right thing to do. I can't find the damn article because it's swamped with the DNA stuff, but I'm guessing my view would probably be the same now.

2: I did not attack Warren.

I posted the Tweets from the Cherokee Nation Secretary of State because I think they have a perspective that deserves to be heard. I subsequently said that mentioning that level of Native American ancestry to an employer isn't something I'd do. That's it.
I don't even hint at the truth of right wing memes without presenting the all facts. It's just not something I would do. ;)
But you were cool with scolding me for saying I that I wouldn't mention native ancestry to an employer by citing the stuff that said Warren didn't claim to be Native American on an application, but without presenting the bit just a paragraph or so earlier where it said that she "put herself on the Minority Law Teacher list" in the AALS directory.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#40

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Mikedunford wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:09 pm :snippity:

I posted the Tweets from the Cherokee Nation Secretary of State because I think they have a perspective that deserves to be heard. I subsequently said that mentioning that level of Native American ancestry to an employer isn't something I'd do. That's it.

:snippity:
To put the Cherokee Nation's comments into context, they attack anyone who hints that they have Cherokee ancestry that is not a member of one of the three recognized Cherokee tribes. That includes the Cherokee Freedmen that they recently threw out. It is a totally predictable knee jerk reaction similar to if the Republic of Ireland attacked Irish-Americans for considering themselves Irish.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#41

Post by Suranis »

Mike (a) she never claimed to be native American and (b) she never claimed to be a member of the Cherokee tribe.

As an aside, its absulutly hilarious to see the Trump Trolls suddenly be quoting "Injuns," when they would have ripped out their tongues rather than do that 6 hours ago.

Edit: And if anyone starts ranting at me for "Calling native Americans Injuns" concider yourself ignored. I'm not in the mood for that trolling crap today
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#42

Post by Reality Check »

Let's look at the facts.

On one side Warren may have listed herself as a minority in one directory at Pennsylvania but the evidence is that she never received any consideration for any position based on status as a minority.

On the other side we have Trump, Sarah Sanders, numerous right wing politicians, and every right wing news source lying their asses off about what Warren said and did and repeating the racial slurs.

I also posted a link to the Snopes article, which is something you forgot to do. If you didn't think Warren did anything wrong then why for fucks sake did you bother to leave the comment?

As they say. I will be happy to leave it to the dear reader to be the judge.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#43

Post by Slim Cognito »

OK, The Cherokee Nation doesn't want people taking the test so they can run around bragging they have NA ancestry. I get that. But i dont think that was Warren`s intent. Shes not asking for a membership card. Trump called her a liar and denegrated the memory of Pocahontas. She proved him wrong.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#44

Post by Fortinbras »

Trump has welched on his promise of a million dollars for proof from Sen. Warren.

On the other hand, about five years ago, Trump actually filed a lawsuit against comedian Bill Maher over Maher's 'offer' of a comparable prize if Trump could prove he was not descended from an orange-hair orangutan.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#45

Post by maydijo »

Dan1100 wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:19 pm
Mikedunford wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:09 pm :snippity:

I posted the Tweets from the Cherokee Nation Secretary of State because I think they have a perspective that deserves to be heard. I subsequently said that mentioning that level of Native American ancestry to an employer isn't something I'd do. That's it.

:snippity:
To put the Cherokee Nation's comments into context, they attack anyone who hints that they have Cherokee ancestry that is not a member of one of the three recognized Cherokee tribes. That includes the Cherokee Freedmen that they recently threw out. It is a totally predictable knee jerk reaction similar to if the Republic of Ireland attacked Irish-Americans for considering themselves Irish.
I totally get that. When I was growing up half the people I went to school with (in Oregon - which is not Cherokee country) claimed to be anywhere from 1/4 to 1/16th Cherokee. It was always Cherokee, never any other tribe, except for the kids who were actually certified members of local tribes. I swear it's a bit like all those pieces of the 'true cross' floating around Europe in the Middle Ages - if everyone who claimed to be Cherokee actually was, the US would be majority Cherokee.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#46

Post by Suranis »

Fortinbras wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:38 pm Trump has welched on his promise of a million dollars for proof from Sen. Warren.

On the other hand, about five years ago, Trump actually filed a lawsuit against comedian Bill Maher over Maher's 'offer' of a comparable prize if Trump could prove he was not descended from an orange-hair orangutan.
Yeah, but...

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/th ... orangutan/
Needless to say Trump eventually withdrew the lawsuit with a promise to re-file an “amended complaint.” There is no indication that Trump ever fulfilled that promise either.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#47

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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#48

Post by pipistrelle »

Let me see if I have this right.
  • Like many, Warren was told by family she has a Native ancestor.
  • She has mentioned this publicly, perhaps foolishly, because she believes it or wants to believe it.
  • She hasn't benefited from this purported ancestry, or only minimally.
  • She isn't running around trying to register with a federally recognized tribe.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while the 45th President tells more lies in 5 minutes than I've told in my lifetime.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while a known liar with the temperament of an angry 15-year-old sits on the Supreme Court.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while more and more Nazis turn up in our towns and cities to incite violence but aren't treated like gangs.
Got it.
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#49

Post by Suranis »

pipistrelle wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:56 pm Let me see if I have this right.
  • Like many, Warren was told by family she has a Native ancestor.
  • She has mentioned this publicly, perhaps foolishly, because she believes it or wants to believe it.
  • She hasn't benefited from this purported ancestry, or only minimally.
  • She isn't running around trying to register with a federally recognized tribe.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while the 45th President tells more lies in 5 minutes than I've told in my lifetime.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while a known liar with the temperament of an angry 15-year-old sits on the Supreme Court.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while more and more Nazis turn up in our towns and cities to incite violence but aren't treated like gangs.
Got it.
Did you knopw that Elizabeth Warren... MIGHT HAVE USED A PRIVATE EMAIL SERVER??????
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Re: Ms Warren Has Some Serious Class

#50

Post by Reality Check »

pipistrelle wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:56 pm Let me see if I have this right.
  • Like many, Warren was told by family she has a Native ancestor.
  • She has mentioned this publicly, perhaps foolishly, because she believes it or wants to believe it.
  • She hasn't benefited from this purported ancestry, or only minimally.
  • She isn't running around trying to register with a federally recognized tribe.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while the 45th President tells more lies in 5 minutes than I've told in my lifetime.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while a known liar with the temperament of an angry 15-year-old sits on the Supreme Court.
  • We're arguing the finer points of this while more and more Nazis turn up in our towns and cities to incite violence but aren't treated like gangs.
Got it.
:thumbs: Yep, that about sums it up.
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