The Moochers of Middle America

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DejaMoo
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The Moochers of Middle America

#1

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:24 am

The Moochers of Middle America The Democrats aren’t radical, but Republicans are.
:snippity:
In other words, while progressive Democrats are mainly arguing for greater social justice, they can also make a much better case than conservatives ever could that their proposals would help the economy and at least partly pay for themselves.

Last but not least, if your view is that the progressive agenda is morally wrong, that people shouldn’t receive more in government benefits than they pay in taxes, you should be aware how many Americans are already “takers,” “moochers,” whatever. In fact, we’re talking about a vast swath of the heartland that includes just about every state that voted for Donald Trump.
:snippity:
The pattern is familiar: Richer states subsidize poorer states. And the reasons are clear: Rich states pay much more per person in federal taxes, while actually getting a bit less in federal spending, because Medicaid and other “means-tested” programs go disproportionately to those with low incomes. But the magnitudes are startling.

Take the case of Kentucky. In 2017, the state received $40 billion more from the federal government than it paid in taxes. That’s about one-fifth of the state’s G.D.P.; if Kentucky were a country, we’d say that it was receiving foreign aid on an almost inconceivable scale.

So if you really believe that Americans with higher incomes shouldn’t pay for benefits provided to those with lower incomes, you should be calling on “donor” states like New Jersey and New York to cut off places like Kentucky and let their economies collapse. And if that’s what you mean, you should let Mitch McConnell’s constituents know about it.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#2

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:40 am

Ahhh - KY - a third world nation at the tits of commie World Bank :lol:

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#3

Post by Tarrant » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:23 am

This is not uncommon. Back during Scott Walker’s runs for governor of Wisconsin, or Rainer in Illinois, there were lots of articles interviewing rural voters who were upset at the “city folk” sucking up more than their fair share.

The reality of the situation was much the opposite - it was the cities (because of the density of people vs the taxes paid) that were heavily subsidizing almost every rural area of their respective states. This is the case across the country.

Note, though, that I want people to be able to get Medicaid and the like. I just also want them to appreciate where the money comes from. When they hurt the cities across the country because they’re “taking more than their share”, they are actually hurting themselves and working to end the programs they often depend on.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#4

Post by fierceredpanda » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:26 am

They don't care. Facts and figures don't matter. All that matters is that they feel like the librul eleet city folk are keeping them down.
"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#5

Post by neeneko » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:37 am

Tarrant wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:23 am
This is not uncommon. Back during Scott Walker’s runs for governor of Wisconsin, or Rainer in Illinois, there were lots of articles interviewing rural voters who were upset at the “city folk” sucking up more than their fair share.

The reality of the situation was much the opposite - it was the cities (because of the density of people vs the taxes paid) that were heavily subsidizing almost every rural area of their respective states. This is the case across the country.

Note, though, that I want people to be able to get Medicaid and the like. I just also want them to appreciate where the money comes from. When they hurt the cities across the country because they’re “taking more than their share”, they are actually hurting themselves and working to end the programs they often depend on.
They key word is 'fair share'. They don't want the same per-capita help, they have rather ethnically and culturally specific ideas about who deserves what.

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DejaMoo
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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#6

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:37 am

Tarrant wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:23 am
This is not uncommon. Back during Scott Walker’s runs for governor of Wisconsin, or Rainer in Illinois, there were lots of articles interviewing rural voters who were upset at the “city folk” sucking up more than their fair share.

The reality of the situation was much the opposite - it was the cities (because of the density of people vs the taxes paid) that were heavily subsidizing almost every rural area of their respective states. This is the case across the country.
It's a false claim actively promoted by GOP politicians and their media minions. Here in Minnesota, the Republican legislators made statements to this effect to their rural base as part of their long-standing effort to shift more of the state's budget to rural areas while attacking much-needed urban infrastructure projects.
Note, though, that I want people to be able to get Medicaid and the like. I just also want them to appreciate where the money comes from.
IOW, Don't bite the hands that feed you.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#7

Post by Foggy » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:46 am

Wait, are there DejaMoochers? :mrgreen: :blink: :towel:
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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#8

Post by Mr Brolin » Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:51 am


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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#9

Post by Bill_G » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:11 am

That map shows Virginia as #50. I would argue that it, in fact, is closer to #1 considering all the federal government offices and properties in the state paying property taxes, etc.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#10

Post by AndyinPA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:14 am

Thanks for the map. I was just in New Mexico visiting friends two months ago. The husband argued PA was a taker state, which his wife and I were sure wasn't true. Now I see NM is #3. I will have a good time with this. (And it will be a good time. He's a solid liberal, an ex-Army Colonel who's horrified by what the Army has become, not to mention the country.)

It just goes to show how little people understand about this issue.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#11

Post by Dan1100 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 am

Bill_G wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:11 am
That map shows Virginia as #50. I would argue that it, in fact, is closer to #1 considering all the federal government offices and properties in the state paying property taxes, etc.
As a general rule, the state and federal government don't pay property taxes.

Occasionally, there are programs where they make Payments in Lieu of Taxes (with the crappy acronym PILOTs sometimes used), but that is the exception, not the rule.

Everything is on wikipedia. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_in_lieu_of_taxes
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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#12

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:40 am

Foggy wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:46 am
Wait, are there DejaMoochers? :mrgreen: :blink: :towel:
I'm not proud, I'll admit to accepting a number of handouts recently proffered by my siblings. There are Circumstances, though - I've provided a home and care for our mom for decades, and now that she's getting towards the end of her lifespan, her increasing care needs have taken a big bite out of my finances, my time, and most of all, my sleep.

Ah, sleep. :lovestruck: I'm like a zombie, these days.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#13

Post by neonzx » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:04 pm

Why is Alaska #9? I thought they were so economically flush with cash from mineral rights that their citizens (adults and children) get an annual dividend check?
To which Trump replied, Fuck the law. I don't give a fuck about the law. I want my fucking money.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#14

Post by Mr Brolin » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:24 pm

The Alaska Permanent Fund is where folks in the state get a varied amount of cash as a dividend from the Alaska Permanent Fund Commission from re-investments of some revenues from oil pipeline etc $1600 for 2018.

Seems a chunk of change until you factor in costs of living and other such fun stuff.

Not funded from federal monies, much of which I expect goes to support people living in butt-feck god knows why istan like...

Attracting and retaining teachers and doctors and nurses and pilots, building small scale and therefore high cost infrastructure and supporting pretty much anyone that was born there or has some idea that they want to live one weeks power failure away from the Donner Party.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#15

Post by AndyinPA » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:38 pm

Alaska's numbers are probably going to change, not for the better.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... nding.html
In a move that shocked education leaders across the U.S., Gov. Mike Dunleavy cut nearly 41 percent of the state’s higher education operating budget on Monday. Dunleavy’s line-item veto of the state appropriations bill will impact the University of Alaska System the most, where cuts could add up to $130 million. And that’s on top of $5 million in cuts already approved by the Legislature. About 40 percent of the system’s budget comes from state appropriations, and the new cuts will add to already significant per-student funding reductions since 2016.
This cut, and others, puts the state on a downward spiral.

As the price of oil has come down, the Alaskan Fund has not been paying out as much money. You know, that horrible socialist plan.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#16

Post by ZekeB » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:52 pm

Dan1100 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:21 am
As a general rule, the state and federal government don't pay property taxes.

Occasionally, there are programs where they make Payments in Lieu of Taxes (with the crappy acronym PILOTs sometimes used), but that is the exception, not the rule.

Everything is on wikipedia. :)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_in_lieu_of_taxes
When I lived in the Omaha area the local school districts received a HUGE amount of payments via this program. I mean millions and millions of dollars. The amount of people stationed at or employed by Offutt AFB determined how much. It didn't matter if the airman owned a home and was already paying property taxes or not, he still counted. It seems that if someone worked for any federal agency it counted, even in the small communities. Now I'm going back to how it was twenty years ago, but if it changed much in the meantime I'm sure I would have heard about the bellowing via the online newspapers I was using to keep in touch with.
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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#17

Post by Shizzle Popped » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:30 pm

Back in the 80s and 90s my father was the superintendent of a rural school district that included an air force base in its district. Very few people from the base who didn't live on the base lived in the district (there were larger towns to the west of the base). The amount of money collected from the government in federal impact aid at the time was much less per student than the cost for each one. It was a constant battle against threatened cuts to the program to the point that the district was threatening to remove the base from the district. Impact aid payments were also frequently months late which meant the district had to keep significant surplus cash on hand in order to pay salaries and expenses. It was a constant nightmare. My father has been retired for a couple of decades now and I'm told the impact aid system is more equitable and reliable but it's there for a reason.
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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#18

Post by SLQ » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:41 pm

fierceredpanda wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:26 am
They don't care. Facts and figures don't matter. All that matters is that they feel like the librul eleet city folk are keeping them down.
Not only that, but the repubs **deserve** any aid they get. But those entitled city folk are all welfare queens.

I do not and have never received any assistance. I have family members who are rural repubs who all have some kind of assistance or another (food stamps, WIC, housing assistance, utilities assistance, subsidized Obamacare), some several types. But they never acknowledge that they are receiving this aid. And they still complain about "entitlements" by those evil libruls. It's a huge disconnect.
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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#19

Post by MN-Skeptic » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:50 pm

SLQ wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:41 pm
fierceredpanda wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:26 am
They don't care. Facts and figures don't matter. All that matters is that they feel like the librul eleet city folk are keeping them down.
Not only that, but the repubs **deserve** any aid they get. But those entitled city folk are all welfare queens.
The Republican voters "deserve" the aid they get because they are victims. They are victims of affirmative action, or illegal immigrants, or wimmen, or The Gays, or Librul policies, etc. They most certainly are NOT lazy [fill in the blank].

Eye roll.
MAGA - Morons Are Governing America

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#20

Post by Slim Cognito » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:19 pm

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:50 pm
SLQ wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:41 pm
fierceredpanda wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:26 am
They don't care. Facts and figures don't matter. All that matters is that they feel like the librul eleet city folk are keeping them down.
Not only that, but the repubs **deserve** any aid they get. But those entitled city folk are all welfare queens.
The Republican voters "deserve" the aid they get because they are victims. They are victims of affirmative action, or illegal immigrants, or wimmen, or The Gays, or Librul policies, etc. They most certainly are NOT lazy [fill in the blank].

Eye roll.

And Joe the *Plumber* will confirm this.
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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#21

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:36 pm

Mr Brolin wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:24 pm
The Alaska Permanent Fund is where folks in the state get a varied amount of cash as a dividend from the Alaska Permanent Fund Commission from re-investments of some revenues from oil pipeline etc $1600 for 2018.

Seems a chunk of change until you factor in costs of living and other such fun stuff.

Not funded from federal monies, much of which I expect goes to support people living in butt-feck god knows why istan like...

Attracting and retaining teachers and doctors and nurses and pilots, building small scale and therefore high cost infrastructure and supporting pretty much anyone that was born there or has some idea that they want to live one weeks power failure away from the Donner Party.
:shock: :swoon:

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#22

Post by MN-Skeptic » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:47 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:36 pm
Mr Brolin wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:24 pm
Not funded from federal monies, much of which I expect goes to support people living in butt-feck god knows why istan like...
:shock: :swoon:
Maybe it's because of my financial background, but I'll go on record as agreeing with the usage of the word "monies" in this context.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#23

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:32 pm

The barbarism has become acceptable because of usage but we don't spell the plural of "monkey" with an "ies." The rules of pluralization dictate "eys." There are many barbarisms and I don't have enough time. I am too busy yelling at clouds to keep off my lawn, and telling TV announcers people are detained in "jail," not prison, and that candidates speak from behind a "lectern" not a "podium."

All right. I'm exhausted. :swoon:

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#24

Post by Northland10 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:43 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:32 pm
The barbarism has become acceptable because of usage but we don't spell the plural of "monkey" with an "ies." The rules of pluralization dictate "eys." There are many barbarisms and I don't have enough time. I am too busy yelling at clouds to keep off my lawn, and telling TV announcers people are detained in "jail," not prison, and that candidates speak from behind a "lectern" not a "podium."

All right. I'm exhausted. :swoon:
I have spoken from behind the podium.

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Re: The Moochers of Middle America

#25

Post by Estiveo » Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:04 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:32 pm
The barbarism has become acceptable because of usage but we don't spell the plural of "monkey" with an "ies." The rules of pluralization dictate "eys." There are many barbarisms and I don't have enough time. I am too busy yelling at clouds to keep off my lawn, and telling TV announcers people are detained in "jail," not prison, and that candidates speak from behind a "lectern" not a "podium."

All right. I'm exhausted. :swoon:
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