The Splitting up of Families

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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#376

Post by Addie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:18 am

Associated Press
Texas group takes in about 30 parents separated from kids

EL PASO, Texas (AP) — A Texas charitable organization says 32 immigrant parents separated from their children after crossing the U.S.-Mexico border were freed into its care, but they don’t know where their kids are or when they might see them again despite government assurances that family reunification would be well organized.

The release on Sunday is believed to be the first, large one of its kind since President Donald Trump signed an executive order Wednesday that preserved a “zero-tolerance” policy for entering the country illegally but ended the practice of separating immigrant parents and children. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement offered no immediate comment.

Ruben Garcia, director of Annunciation House in El Paso, said the group of both mothers and fathers includes some from Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras who arrived to his group after federal authorities withdrew criminal charges for illegal entry. He didn’t release names or personal details to protect the parents’ privacy, and Homeland Security officials said they needed more specifics in order to check out their cases.

A Saturday night fact sheet by the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies said authorities know the location of all children in custody after separating them from their families at the border and are working to reunite them. It called the reunification process “well coordinated.”

It also said parents must request that their child be deported with them. In the past, the fact sheet says, many parents elected to be deported without their children. That may be a reflection of violence or persecution they face in their home countries.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#377

Post by Addie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:05 am

WaPo
Trump’s hard-line view of immigration draws parallels to the 1930s

History doesn’t repeat itself, the saying goes, but it often rhymes. This week in Washington, the ugly doggerel of the present was voiced in angry and tendentious tweets from the White House. President Trump’s decision to forcibly separate migrant children from their parents at the border provoked a heated and sustained backlash, both at home and abroad. Nevertheless, even after they grudgingly moved to end the policy on Wednesday, Trump and his lieutenants continued to tar immigrants as criminals and their political opponents as the enablers of crime.

The president’s rhetoric, so baldly demagogic and polarizing, led a host of pundits and analysts to point to the echoes of a darker past, when the vilification of minorities preceded both the collapse of democracy and far more violent ends.

Accounts of weeping, terrified children crying out for their parents haunted the American media conversation. We were confronted with images of fence-enclosed "cages" and desert detention centers in the baking heat. Survivors of World War II pogroms and injustices, from the Holocaust to the internment camps for Japanese Americans, voiced their own disquiet over what the Trump administration was doing. ...

Beyond stirring a narrow base ahead of elections, this fear-mongering has deeper and more dangerous effects. "Put starkly, the norms and taboos established after the world witnessed the Holocaust are eroding before our eyes,” wrote the Guardian’s Jonathan Freedland, lamenting the unraveling of the West's liberal order. "For 70-odd years, roughly the span of a human life, they endured, keeping the lid on the darker impulses that, we had seen, lurked within all of us. It steadily became taboo to voice undiluted racism and xenophobia. Those fears, those loathings of the stranger, never went away, of course. But they were held in check, partly by the knowledge of where such hatred, unrestrained, could lead."


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#378

Post by tencats » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:07 pm

National Guardsman on immigrants: 'They're lucky we aren't executing them'
https://www.syracuse.com/us-news/index. ... _them.html

The Oregon National Guard confirmed Martin is a private first class with the guard, KATU reported. Maj. Stephen Bomar told the station Martin will face punishment for his comments about executing migrants.

"That was just a horrific comment," Bomar told KATU. "I think we all saw what it was, even if he is not showing military uniform that is just a horrific comment."



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#379

Post by Danraft » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:17 pm

That video seems great.
Harvest from that strategy.
an effective message.
I'll listen to all of it.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#380

Post by Addie » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:14 pm

WaPo - Eugene Robinson
You can smell Trump’s fear

President Trump created an immigration crisis to stoke resentment and anger among his base — traumatizing innocent children for political gain. Lacking any kind of moral compass, he makes a show of being pleased with what he has wrought. But you can smell his fear. ...

On Monday, Trump once again tweeted his wish that migrants who cross the border could be summarily expelled. “Hiring manythousands [sic] of judges, and going through a long and complicated legal process, is not the way to go - will always be disfunctional [sic],” the president wrote. It was more than a frustrated lament for unchallenged executive power; it was an acknowledgment that “zero tolerance” is a logistical nightmare that cannot work.

Trump has to wonder if even his staunchest supporters have the stomach for the kind of cruelty inherent in the family separations and the detention camps. He has to worry that his latest anti-immigration gambit is doing more to energize and mobilize anti-Trump political forces than the “Make America Great Again” crowd. He has to realize that it is hard to whip up punitive anger toward crying children — and that even his great skill at lying is not enough to obscure the truth of a mother’s tears.

And he has to know that backing down is a betrayal of his carefully cultivated brand of damn-the-torpedoes toughness. Who’s the snowflake now?

This was supposed to be a “good” crisis in which only some desperate Central Americans got hurt. Demonizing immigrants has always worked for Trump in the past, but he has to be deeply worried that it’s not working now.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#381

Post by Dolly » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:35 pm

Off Topic
Not sure where to post this. It is NOT about Trump and his policy. It is an OLD article. It was a link at Gavin Seim's page. We could see more of this. :madguy:
July 18, 2012
Tug-of-Love: Immigrant Mom Loses Effort to Regain Son Given to US Parents

In a controversial case that involved the rights of illegal immigrants and their young children, a Guatemalan mother lost her effort today to get back the five-year old son who was taken away from her after her arrest on immigration charges and put up for adoption in Missouri despite her objections.

A Missouri judge ruled the boy should stay with the Missouri couple, Melinda and Seth Moser, who took him into their home five years ago while his mother was in federal custody, where she attempted in vain to oppose the adoption proceedings.
.......
The child, born as Carlos but renamed Jamison by the Mosers, has been with his adoptive parents in Carthage, Missouri since the age of 11 months.
.............
The ruling today reaffirmed the original decision by another Missouri judge who terminated the parental rights of Bail Romero, stating that "illegally smuggling herself into the country is not a lifestyle that can provide any stability for the child."

The Missouri Supreme Court called the initial decision a "travesty of justice" and ordered a review of the case by a second judge.
............
Her lawyer, Curtis Woods, said he would appeal the decision of the judge who he said ruled Encarnacion Bail Romero's parental rights had been terminated because she had abandoned him while she was incarcerated.
.............
The biological mother was arrested in 2007 on an immigration raid at a chicken processing plant in Missouri and has not seen her son since.
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/immigran ... d=16803067


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#382

Post by AndyinPA » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:48 pm

Addie wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:14 pm
WaPo - Eugene Robinson
You can smell Trump’s fear

President Trump created an immigration crisis to stoke resentment and anger among his base — traumatizing innocent children for political gain. Lacking any kind of moral compass, he makes a show of being pleased with what he has wrought. But you can smell his fear. ...

On Monday, Trump once again tweeted his wish that migrants who cross the border could be summarily expelled. “Hiring manythousands [sic] of judges, and going through a long and complicated legal process, is not the way to go - will always be disfunctional [sic],” the president wrote. It was more than a frustrated lament for unchallenged executive power; it was an acknowledgment that “zero tolerance” is a logistical nightmare that cannot work.

Trump has to wonder if even his staunchest supporters have the stomach for the kind of cruelty inherent in the family separations and the detention camps. He has to worry that his latest anti-immigration gambit is doing more to energize and mobilize anti-Trump political forces than the “Make America Great Again” crowd. He has to realize that it is hard to whip up punitive anger toward crying children — and that even his great skill at lying is not enough to obscure the truth of a mother’s tears.

And he has to know that backing down is a betrayal of his carefully cultivated brand of damn-the-torpedoes toughness. Who’s the snowflake now?

This was supposed to be a “good” crisis in which only some desperate Central Americans got hurt. Demonizing immigrants has always worked for Trump in the past, but he has to be deeply worried that it’s not working now.
I think what he's deeply worried about is the Mueller investigation. twitler has gone seriously off the rails since Michael Cohen's judicial problems.



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#383

Post by Gregg » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:52 pm

Dolly wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:35 pm
Off Topic
Not sure where to post this. It is NOT about Trump and his policy. It is an OLD article. It was a link at Gavin Seim's page. We could see more of this. :madguy:
July 18, 2012
Tug-of-Love: Immigrant Mom Loses Effort to Regain Son Given to US Parents

In a controversial case that involved the rights of illegal immigrants and their young children, a Guatemalan mother lost her effort today to get back the five-year old son who was taken away from her after her arrest on immigration charges and put up for adoption in Missouri despite her objections.

A Missouri judge ruled the boy should stay with the Missouri couple, Melinda and Seth Moser, who took him into their home five years ago while his mother was in federal custody, where she attempted in vain to oppose the adoption proceedings.
.......
The child, born as Carlos but renamed Jamison by the Mosers, has been with his adoptive parents in Carthage, Missouri since the age of 11 months.
.............
The ruling today reaffirmed the original decision by another Missouri judge who terminated the parental rights of Bail Romero, stating that "illegally smuggling herself into the country is not a lifestyle that can provide any stability for the child."

The Missouri Supreme Court called the initial decision a "travesty of justice" and ordered a review of the case by a second judge.
............
Her lawyer, Curtis Woods, said he would appeal the decision of the judge who he said ruled Encarnacion Bail Romero's parental rights had been terminated because she had abandoned him while she was incarcerated.
.............
The biological mother was arrested in 2007 on an immigration raid at a chicken processing plant in Missouri and has not seen her son since.
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/immigran ... d=16803067
They're going to try the same thing with who knows how many of the kids they've taken since. Why else would they disperse them all over the country? I had seen before the legal thing about the kids being abandoned when the parent was arrested and the child taken.

I don't even have the words.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#384

Post by arock » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:55 pm

Addie wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:18 am
Associated Press
Texas group takes in about 30 parents separated from kids

EL PASO, Texas (AP) — A Texas charitable organization says 32 immigrant parents separated from their children after crossing the U.S.-Mexico border were freed into its care, but they don’t know where their kids are or when they might see them again despite government assurances that family reunification would be well organized.

The release on Sunday is believed to be the first, large one of its kind since President Donald Trump signed an executive order Wednesday that preserved a “zero-tolerance” policy for entering the country illegally but ended the practice of separating immigrant parents and children. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement offered no immediate comment.

Ruben Garcia, director of Annunciation House in El Paso, said the group of both mothers and fathers includes some from Mexico, Guatemala and Honduras who arrived to his group after federal authorities withdrew criminal charges for illegal entry. He didn’t release names or personal details to protect the parents’ privacy, and Homeland Security officials said they needed more specifics in order to check out their cases.

A Saturday night fact sheet by the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies said authorities know the location of all children in custody after separating them from their families at the border and are working to reunite them. It called the reunification process “well coordinated.”

It also said parents must request that their child be deported with them. In the past, the fact sheet says, many parents elected to be deported without their children. That may be a reflection of violence or persecution they face in their home countries.
This is the first time I've seen any indication that the children's location has been tracked, although it's not clear if the statement refers to the 2,300 plus or to children from a certain place/time.

I want the families re-united.



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#385

Post by vic » Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:09 am

So many threads, so many news stories, so many tweets and facebook posts. Not sure if this has been mentioned before


Bob Moore
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Learned this at a press conference today. Illegal entry into the US is the same level federal crime as falsely claiming to be a 4-H member. Except they don’t take your kids away for lying about being an ag student. Here’s the statute:

18 U.S. Code § 916 - 4–H Club members or agents
The linked U.S. Code section is only for "...falsely and with intent to defraud, holds himself out as or represents or pretends himself to be a member of, associated with, or an agent or representative for the 4–H clubs..."



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#386

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:08 am

vic wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:09 am
So many threads, so many news stories, so many tweets and facebook posts. Not sure if this has been mentioned before


Bob Moore
‏@BobMooreNews

Learned this at a press conference today. Illegal entry into the US is the same level federal crime as falsely claiming to be a 4-H member. Except they don’t take your kids away for lying about being an ag student. Here’s the statute:

18 U.S. Code § 916 - 4–H Club members or agents
The linked U.S. Code section is only for "...falsely and with intent to defraud, holds himself out as or represents or pretends himself to be a member of, associated with, or an agent or representative for the 4–H clubs..."
I think Mike Dunford mentioned a few offenses a couple of days ago, including that one and something like importing water lotus or something. Can't find the post now.



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#387

Post by Dolly » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:35 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:08 am

I think Mike Dunford mentioned a few offenses a couple of days ago, including that one and something like importing water lotus or something. Can't find the post now.
Mikedunford wrote:
Not just a misdemeanor. A petty misdemeanor. I've been looking through the USC for similar offenses. If you reuse a postage stamp that the cancellation machine somehow missed, you will have committed a more serious federal crime than first-offense illegal entry.

Crimes that are in the same severity bracket (B Misdemeanor, 6-month max sentence) as first-offense illegal entry include the illegal transportation of water hyacinths, fraudulent misuse of the 4-H Club emblem, and knowing, unauthorized, and for-profit use of the slogan "Give A Hoot, Don't Pollute."
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p1000395


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#388

Post by vic » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:33 pm

Thanks Sugar and Dolly! And Mike!

I thought I had read it somewhere before but couldn't remember.



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#389

Post by Turtle » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:58 pm

Some more videos came out last night:




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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#390

Post by Dolly » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:25 pm

Top official says government can't reunite migrant families under current law

The head of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) said Tuesday he is powerless to reunite migrant children with their parents unless Congress changes the laws regarding detention time limits.

Under questioning from Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee, HHS Secretary Alex Azar indicated it's the responsibility of Congress or the courts to reunite the 2,047 migrant children still in the agency's custody.

“We are working to get all these kids ready to be placed back with their parents as soon as Congress passes a change, or if those parents complete their immigration proceedings,” Azar said. “We do not want any children separated from their parents any longer than necessary under the law.”
...................
"I cannot reunite them, though, while the parents are in custody because of the court order that doesn't allow the kids to be with their parents for more than 20 days. We need Congress to fix that," Azar said.

The Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” immigration policy has caused the thousands of separations, but an executive order Trump signed last week amid intense political pressure was intended to keep families together while in detention.
..................
Azar defended the administration’s response. He said public health service officers are working with parents to put them in touch with their children.

“There is no reason why any parent would not know where their child is located,” Azar said, adding he could locate “any child within seconds” through an online government portal.
............
Azar did not say how long those separated children would remain in HHS shelters. He said “hundreds” of children have been reunited with their parents or another relative, but declined to say how many parents have been told where their kids are.

He said HHS conducts extensive vetting of adults to make sure they're not traffickers masquerading as parents.
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/le ... urrent-law


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#391

Post by Boogiebach » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:28 pm

I don't understand what the U.S. is becoming. I don't see how this is legal or ethical or what the U.S. aspires to be.

How can we split up families and say we won't reunite them unless the agree to leave.

It's immoral. It has to be illegal. We need the U.N. or someone to stop this.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#392

Post by Dolly » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:38 pm

Sessions quips about family separation during speech to conservative group

Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Tuesday quipped about family separation while speaking to a conservative criminal justice organization in Los Angeles.

Sessions made the comment while criticizing the left for “hypocrisy” on border security.

“The rhetoric we hear from the other side on this issue – as on many others – has become radicalized,” Sessions said. “We hear views on television today that are on the lunatic fringe, frankly.”

“And what is perhaps more galling is the hypocrisy,” he added. “These same people live in gated communities, many of them, and are featured at events where you have to have an ID to even come in and hear them speak. They like a little security around themselves.”

“And if you try to scale the fence, believe me, they’d be even too happy to have you arrested and separated from your children,” he said, to laughter and applause.

“They want borders in their lives, but not in yours,” he said.

The comment was included in Sessions’ prepared remarks to the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation, according to a Justice Department release. <SNIP>
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... -speech-to


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#393

Post by Lani » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:44 pm

Migrant children won't be reunited with parents who are still in custody, top official says

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html
The Trump administration will not reunite any migrant children with parents still held in immigrant detention facilities unless current federal law changes first, a top administration official told Congress on Tuesday.

The statement by Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar, whose agency currently has custody of 2,047 children who were separated from their parents after being apprehended crossing the border illegally, confirmed what immigrant advocates have feared: The administration will reunite children with their parents quickly only if the parents drop their claims for asylum in the U.S. and agree to be deported.

Under administration policy, immigrants claiming asylum are held in detention awaiting a hearing — a process that can often take months or years. Because current law allows children to be held in immigrant detention facilities for no more than 20 days, Azar’s agency would not place any of the children with parents who are in those facilities, he said.

“If the parent remains in detention, unfortunately, under rules that are set by Congress and the courts, they can't be reunified while they're in detention," Azar said.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#394

Post by Dolly » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:46 pm

Melania Trump to visit another immigrant detention center

First lady Melania Trump is expected to make another visit to immigrant holding facilities later this week, her spokeswoman confirmed to The Hill on Tuesday.

Stephanie Grisham, director of communications for the first lady, did not provide additional details on the date or location of Trump's visit. It would mark the second consecutive week in which the first lady traveled to facilities being used to house immigrants.

Trump last week made a surprise trip to a McAllen, Texas, facility that is holding migrant children who were separated from their parents under the Trump administration’s zero tolerance policy.

Her visit came one day after President Trump signed an executive order to halt family separations. That decision followed days of overwhelming backlash, which included a statement from the first lady saying she “hates” to see children separated from their families.

While in Texas, Melania Trump asked officials about the conditions kids were living in, how often they talked to their parents, and how she could help reunite the children with their families.

Grisham told reporters that last week’s visit was “100 percent” the first lady’s idea.

“She wants to see what’s happening for herself and she wants to lend her support, executive order nor not,” she said.
.....................
Since last week's visit, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has said it has located each of the more than 2,000 children in the government's custody as a result of the zero tolerance policy. It has not given a timeline for when they might be reunited with their families.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... ion-center

ETA highlighting - I was under the impression these children were unaccompanied minors. Not separated family children.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#395

Post by vic » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:53 pm

https://ascienceenthusiast.com/fisher-p ... ison-camp/
Fisher-Price announces their new product: ‘My First Prison Camp’

Image



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#396

Post by RVInit » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:13 pm

Boogiebach wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:28 pm
I don't understand what the U.S. is becoming. I don't see how this is legal or ethical or what the U.S. aspires to be.

How can we split up families and say we won't reunite them unless the agree to leave.

It's immoral. It has to be illegal. We need the U.N. or someone to stop this.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-p ... story.html
Unfortunately, this administration has no respect for the UN. Haley's recent rant and removing the USA from the UN Human Rights Council proved that this administration takes any and every thing deadly personally and will attack any person or organization that has any criticism whatsoever. It is un-fucking-believable to me that a single vile individual could turn this country so far upside down. But, of course, it's not just the single vile creature currently occupying the White House - it is the lack of willingness by Republicans in Congress to reign in the monster. They have shown that they are willing to burn this country to the ground in order to maintain their grasp on power, which they have had to gain by cheating in the first place.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#397

Post by MN-Skeptic » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:01 am

From The Hill -

Judge orders Trump admin to begin reuniting immigrant families
A federal judge on Tuesday ordered the Trump administration to immediately move to reunify immigrant families that were separated under the administration's "zero tolerance" immigration policy.

U.S. District Court Judge Dana Sabraw granted a preliminary injunction to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) over the group's lawsuit challenging the policy, which has been met with widespread condemnation both domestically and abroad.

In the ruling, Sabraw said that the Trump administration must reunify all immigrant children under the age of five with their parents within two weeks, and all minor children age five and older within 30 days.
:happydance:

They've updated the article to include:
Sabraw’s ruling also stipulates that U.S. immigration agents can no longer separate families after they cross the border, unless the parent “presents a danger to the child” or voluntarily declines to be reunited with their child.
:happydance: :happydance: :happydance:


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#398

Post by Gregg » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:08 am

And now we'll find out how accurate they were being when they said they know exactly where every one of them are.


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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#399

Post by Turtle » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:24 am

I wonder what they will do about the ones they already sold to the adoption agencies.



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Re: The Splitting up of Families

#400

Post by vic » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:35 am

Gregg wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:08 am
And now we'll find out how accurate they were being when they said they know exactly where every one of them are.
I wonder how quickly they'll appeal this so that they can hide that they don't know...



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