LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

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Mikedunford
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#476

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:55 pm

Sam the Centipede wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:50 pm
Mikedunford wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:16 am
Richard Dawkins is a moron. That was always on offer (and, in my view, always the most likely outcome).
:) C'mon Mike, where are your previous high standards of both debate and snark? :)

You know very well that Richard Dawkins is a long way from being a moron. A moron doesn't get appointed to a chair at Oxford University (the Simonyi Professorship for the Public Understanding of Science). I have some misgivings about some of his views on the mechanisms of natural selection in biological evolution, as perhaps you do with your pre-lawyer lab coat on, but that's nor relevant here.

I can't read Dawkins' mind, so I don't know what his intended meaning was. He could be suggesting that the "Leave" campaign implied there would be an orderly, negotiated exit ... I have no idea whether that's an accurate depiction or not. Or he could be suggesting that the leave/remain vote was non-specific, so it's wrong to claim it as support for any particular type of exit, disorderly or negotiated. Without context, I dunno.

What's clear from reports I have seen this week is that the UK government's political negotiators are massively deluded about their position. They're saying that the next move must be from the EU but without appreciating that the EU team is (a) constrained by its terms of reference from the multi-national body overseeing it, and (b) can simply sit and wait, because it's the UK leaving the EU, not the EU leaving the UK (nor the EU kicking out the UK). The UK's negotiators seem to think that they can bully the EU: ain't gonna happen.
True, true.

Too, also, it's worth noting that Dawkins is actually quite intelligent - if only because it means that he doesn't actually have lack of ability as an excuse when he engages in sloppy thinking.1

It's true that his meaning is unclear. It would be nice, given his alleged skills at communicating complex concepts to a popular audience, if he was perhaps slightly better at dealing with a 140-character limit, but the Tweet in question is consistent with what I've seen of his Twitter skills in the past.

I fully agree regarding the current UK delusional position. They're trying to bluff their way though, but they're holding no cards at all.


1: I've met Dawkins, and had a meal with him and a handful of others. Terribly disappointing; he's far from the most pleasant man to be around. Which may influence my impression of him. (I also met Gould once, and found him - although unquestionably at least as arrogant as Dawkins - to be a very nice guy.)


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#477

Post by June bug » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:56 pm

Suranis wrote:Anyway, a dutch guy writes on what is wrong with England right now, and who he is leaving Britain and he is glad Brexit happened. In short, the class system is total horseshit, the Press is a horror story run by 6 right wing monsters, and the English are too stuck up their own arse to realize they are not that important and the EU does not need them more than they need the EU. Also the Brits cant see things except in terms of winners and losers, and that needs to be knocked out of them hard. Its a good read even if you disagree with it. I don't, and frankly I see a lot of the same shit here in Ireland.

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/maga ... he-england
Insightful article and some excellent comments too. Thanks, Suranis! :kiss:



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#478

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:36 pm

Dawkins' Tweet appears to be ironic to me.



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#479

Post by Orlylicious » Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:54 am

Wishing all well in the path of the hurricane, another crazy weather event this year...







Be careful Suranis!



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#480

Post by Volkonski » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:30 am


The number of nurses and midwives coming to work in Britain from Europe has plunged by 89% since the UK voted to leave the EU, new figures have revealed.

The sharp fall coincided with a sudden increase in qualified European medics leaving the Nursing and Midwifery Council’s (NMC) register: from 2,435 in 2015-16 to 4,067 in the last year – a rise of 67%.

The NMC data, released on Thursday, also shows a third worrying trend relating to the NHS’s already shortstaffed workforce – that the number of UK-trained nurses and midwives leaving the register rose by 11%, from 26,653 in 2015-16 to 29,019 last year.

Health union leaders said the trends were alarming and constituted “a double whammy for the NHS and patients”. The NHS is already short of an estimated 40,000 nurses across the UK and 3,500 midwives in England alone.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#481

Post by Volkonski » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:30 am

Due to Brexit the UK NHS is having problems recruiting EU physicians. The NHS is trying to hire 2000 EU physicians over 3 years beginning in 2017. in the 1st 6 months of 2017 only 38 were recruited.



It might also have something to do with how hard UK docs have to work.

Monday
It’s supposed to be my day off, but instead I’m at home filing up to 50 laboratory results, x-rays, ultrasounds and scans before starting to sift through the 70 letters that have arrived in my email inbox. This is alongside getting the kids up, dressed and to school on time.
:snippity:
I’m at the computer all day, except to pick up the kids from school before getting down to work again. By 9.45pm I’m trying to wind down, but have seen a request for information from social services and the police, who are concerned a young person may be being abused or vulnerable to abuse. The information needs to be emailed tonight. Employment and support allowance benefit forms also need completing – they have already been sitting on my desk a week too long. And I have yet to send back a report about a patient with a severe learning disability, starting a discussion on end-of-life planning with their family. I decide to leave it to the morning as it requires a fresh head.

:snippity:

Wednesday
I’m up at 6am, leave by 6.35 and go for a short run at 7.15. I realise I have unfinished requests for exceptional funding for open MRI scans, for a patient who has severe anxiety and claustrophobia and another who is too big to fit in a normal scanner. GPs have to make such requests when their local clinical commissioning group has refused to fund treatment for a patient.
:snippity:
I just want to get home, catch up on Bake Off and see my family. I’m home by 10.30pm. My children have not seen me properly for two days.
:o :shock: :o :shock:


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#482

Post by Volkonski » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:45 pm

Looks like the USA is going to force the UK to drop some of its regulations in order to get a trade deal.



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#483

Post by RTH10260 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:14 pm

Volkonski wrote:
Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:30 am
Due to Brexit the UK NHS is having problems recruiting EU physicians. The NHS is trying to hire 2000 EU physicians over 3 years beginning in 2017. in the 1st 6 months of 2017 only 38 were recruited.

https:// twitter.com/NBCNews/status/926816086095405056

It might also have something to do with how hard UK docs have to work.
https:// twitter.com/guardian/status/926760206377238529

:snippity:
:o :shock: :o :shock:
I guess that European workers flow back now when they see local work opportunities at home cause they don't want to be caught up with the bureaucracy once the become simple foreigners and not Europeans. For the same reason no one tends to migrate to the UK, they don't want later to be bound by the inevitable red tape. The UK has missed the opportunity to declare and guarantee one-sided that European citizens will have a privileged status grandfathered over into the new aera. Maybe they fear losing an argument once it comes to have British subjects getting special residency treatment in the EU countries.



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#484

Post by Volkonski » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:19 am

What Trump has done for American farmers Brexit is doing for British farmers.

British fruit left to rot as looming Brexit squeezes seasonal labor

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexi ... d_nn_tw_ma
Fruit grower Tim Chambers left 150 tons of raspberries, worth just over $1 million, to rot on the bush in June. With too few laborers to pick produce on his farms, he also decided not to plant a good portion of the late-season raspberries that he usually harvests in the fall.

:snippity:

“Last year we recruited 5,000 people. This year if we get 3,600 we will be lucky,” he said from his office in Bucharest.

Workers “come to the U.K. when there is no other choice,” he added.

:snippity:

“Iconic British asparagus, courgette [zucchini], tender stem broccoli, the humble Halloween pumpkin — each one lifted off the ground by a human, polished and put into a box — all those crops will be impacted,” Marks said.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#485

Post by Reality Check » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:36 am

Volkonski wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:19 am
What Trump has done for American farmers Brexit is doing for British farmers.

British fruit left to rot as looming Brexit squeezes seasonal labor

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexi ... d_nn_tw_ma
Is this a case of not being able to reap what you have sown? ;)


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#486

Post by Volkonski » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:47 am

Reality Check wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:36 am
Volkonski wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:19 am
What Trump has done for American farmers Brexit is doing for British farmers.

British fruit left to rot as looming Brexit squeezes seasonal labor

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/brexi ... d_nn_tw_ma
Is this a case of not being able to reap what you have sown? ;)
Also a case of not being able to pick what you have planted. ;)


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#487

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:34 am

EU agencies will relocate to Paris and Amsterdam in first Brexit shift
More than a thousand jobs will leave London, and tens of thousands of researchers will be diverted away from the UK.
20:19, UK, Monday 20 November 2017

By Aubrey Allegretti, Political Reporter

Two European cities have won lucrative bids to host EU agencies leaving London because of Brexit.

Paris will become the new home of the bloc's banking association while Amsterdam will play host to its medicines agency.

The move means over a thousand jobs will leave London, also diverting tens of thousands of researchers and staff from companies visiting the institutions elsewhere.

France and the Netherlands were picked in two crunch secret ballots by EU27 delegates on Monday night.

Their success was a delicate balance of intense diplomacy with other EU countries - and luck.

https://news.sky.com/story/european-med ... t-11136182



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#488

Post by vic » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:58 pm

So perhaps there's one positive effect from Brexit - the traffic in London will become less congested.



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#489

Post by Reality Check » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:53 pm

Theresa May was ready to sign a deal today with the EU on the Irish border but at the last minute the DUP gummed up the works.

I was surprised and disappointed' - Taoiseach on breakdown of potential Brexit border deal

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said he was "both surprised and disappointed" after Brexit talks on the Northern Ireland border failed to reach a deal today.

A Brexit deal to solve the 'Irish question' was done until a last minute intervention from the DUP, the Irish Government has confirmed.

Speaking this evening, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said he was both "surprised and disappointed" to hear the deal would not be reached.

He has told an evening press briefing in Dublin that "substantial progress" had been made and Ireland was ready to sign off on the deal.

The agreed text between the UK and EU "gave us the assurance we need that even as an unintended consequences there would not be a hard border on the island of Ireland", he said.

However, UK Prime Minister Theresa May was on the verge of formally signing up to the deal but stepped back after a last minute intervention from the DUP.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#490

Post by Volkonski » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:40 pm

Between them DUP and the hard Brexiters want the impossible. There is no way to have an open border between the two Irelands and have a guarded border between the UK and the EU while at the same time keeping the regulatory rules in Northern Ireland the same as in the rest of the UK and not having any restrictions on the movement of people and goods between Northern Ireland and Britain.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#491

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:39 am



There is a deal. May did not get Cabinet approval in advance and DUP is said not to be completely on board. No details released yet. This may still fall apart.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#492

Post by Volkonski » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:33 am

https://www.ft.com/content/21c5d076-dbe ... 4b1c09b482

Ireland

The deal sets out fallback provisions to avoid a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland if neither an overarching EU-UK agreement nor a deal specifically focused on the island of Ireland manages to do so. This fallback focuses on “full alignment” between the UK and the rules of the EU’s single market and customs union.

EU wins

Brussels has extracted considerable concessions from the UK over the fallback of “full alignment” with those EU internal market and customs union rules that “support North-South co-operation, the all-island economy and the [1998 Good Friday] agreement.”

But Mr Barnier warned that the problem had not gone away. “No one should underestimate the difficulties that we will face on this issue, nobody,” he said.

UK wins

For Britain, the challenge in this phase of the talks was to convince Brussels, and, crucially, Dublin, that London was serious about avoiding a hard border while also reassuring the European side that Brexit would not leave a gap in the EU’s external border. This was a prerequisite for moving the Brexit talks into phase two. So the main win for the UK at this stage is that its assurances have been accepted and talks can move on.
The hard Brexiters will not like that fallback provision.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#493

Post by RTH10260 » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:45 pm

Theresa May’s Brexit deal ‘hard to reconcile’ with UK leaving the single market and customs union, EU says
A deal was struck in the early hours of the morning

Jon Stone Europe Correspondent

The European Commission’s negotiators have cast doubt on Theresa May’s ability to take the UK out of the single market and customs union if she follows through on her solution to the Northern Ireland border issue.

An internal EU communiqué from its negotiators to the EU27 member states of the European Council says it is difficult to see how Ms May could still be planning on leaving the two institutions given what she agreed in the early hours of this morning.

The Prime Minister told reporters in Brussels this morning that Britain would still be leaving the single market and customs union, as she had pledged in her Lancaster House speech at the start of the year.

But the joint text she signed up to just minutes earlier pledged that the entire UK would “maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union” where they were applicable to avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 99351.html



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#494

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:01 pm

May sounds like she's as bad a negotiator as Trump. All of what were claimed to be the burdensome EU trade regulations and none of the benefits.



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#495

Post by Addie » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:41 pm

The Guardian
Brexit is a 'nationalist spasm': Lord Adonis resigns as infrastructure tsar

Brexit has caused a “nervous breakdown” in Whitehall, the former Labour minister Andrew Adonis has said following his resignation as chair of the government-backed National Infrastructure Commission.

Lord Adonis resigned on Friday in protest at Theresa May’s management of Britain’s departure from the EU, describing the process as “a dangerous populist and nationalist spasm worthy of Donald Trump”.

He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme on Saturday morning: “Almost the entire government machine is spending its time seeking to wrench us out of the key economic and political institutions of the EU. Everything else is going by the board.”

Adonis said there should be a second referendum on the terms of the Brexit deal and that people like him who are in leadership positions should be “arguing passionately with the British people as to why staying in the EU is the right thing to do”.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#496

Post by Reality Check » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:17 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:01 pm
May sounds like she's as bad a negotiator as Trump. All of what were claimed to be the burdensome EU trade regulations and none of the benefits.
I predict May's government will never survive the Brexit talks. One side or the other will eventually get frustrated enough with her to pull their support. The Irish border seems to be a real sticking point. The EU doesn't want an open border with Northern Ireland without them remaining in the partnership in a many ways. The DUP will never accept those conditions.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#497

Post by Addie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:52 am

I guess this can go here.
The Guardian: Empire strikes back: why former colonies don't need Britain after Brexit

British politics and culture feel nostalgic about the Commonwealth and hope to rekindle the old relationship. But the reality is not so simple


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#498

Post by HeatherGray » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:38 pm

Addie wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:52 am
I guess this can go here.
The Guardian: Empire strikes back: why former colonies don't need Britain after Brexit

British politics and culture feel nostalgic about the Commonwealth and hope to rekindle the old relationship. But the reality is not so simple
I read this and the comments. I expected a lot more pushback against the thesis of the article, but instead, there were lots more anecdotes in support.



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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#499

Post by TollandRCR » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:11 pm

The BREXIT issue of the border of Northern Ireland is another illustration of how irrational and unsustainable is the split of the island, enforced by British occupation. Protestants need to find a way to live in peace with their neighbors. Baron Bannside (Ian Paisley) left a dangerous and senseless legacy.


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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#500

Post by Reality Check » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:02 pm

Addie wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:52 am
I guess this can go here.
The Guardian: Empire strikes back: why former colonies don't need Britain after Brexit

British politics and culture feel nostalgic about the Commonwealth and hope to rekindle the old relationship. But the reality is not so simple
So the UK believes it can recreate the Empire to make up for the damage it inflicted upon itself by giving the EU the big one finger salute? All I can say is
► Show Spoiler


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