LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

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Volkonski
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1351

Post by Volkonski »



How will they reduce taxes while continuing to provide the services that their people have come to expect?
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1352

Post by Sterngard Friegen »

Volkonski wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:54 am
BoJo is Manaforted. Had he not become PM this would not have been the big story it's going to be. Look for a corruption trial once he is no longer PM.

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1353

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Volkonski wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:48 pm
How will they reduce taxes while continuing to provide the services that their people have come to expect?
.
Because they will make mountains of cash by selling to China the rainbows farted by the unicorns that have been banned by unfair EU regulations!! :rolleye: :pigsfly:

Either that or Mexico will pay.

The Conservative party is (was?) like most European center-right parties in being in favor of low taxes, reduced public spending, fiscal responsibility, restricted government intervention, etc. But now they promote wild public spending and an uncosted golden future in a way that is disgustingly reminiscent of the rise of populist extreme right-wing parties in continental Europe (well, Germany and Italy) in the 1930s.

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1354

Post by Dave at Sea »

Boris can be tried while he is in office.
Being an MP even the PM isn’t proof against trial/conviction. :)

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1355

Post by Dave at Sea »

“The conflict of interest matters have been referred to the Independent Office for Police Conduct, as Mr Johnson served as London's police commissioner between 2008 and 2016.”

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-09- ... n/11559040

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1356

Post by fierceredpanda »

Boris is acting monstrously because he is desperate to get an election before 10/31. His thinking is that if he behaves like a complete bastard, eventually he will goad his opponents into a no-confidence vote. Yesterday, he gave an interview in which he said there should be "consequences" for the UK Supreme Court justices who ruled against him. Last week, he ludicrously invoked the memory of the murdered Jo Cox and said that the best way to ensure the safety of MPs was to do Brexit his way. This is roughly the equivalent of Donald Trump telling Congress that the best way to guarantee their personal safety is to give him his wall. My point being that even Trump hasn't gone so far as that.

The thinking on the benches opposite Johnson is that calling an election after 10/31 will result in the most rabid Brexiteers feeling betrayed by the Tories and BoJo, voting for Farage and the Brexit Party, thus splitting up Johnson's coalition and resulting in a change in government. Personally, I'd rather that the Benn Act hadn't been passed, and the UK crashed out on 10/31, because sometimes the stupid kid that wants to put their hand on the hot stove just has to get burned or they won't figure it out. The solid 30-40% of Britons who want out of the EU want out more than anything else, and simply will not stop until they get what they want. The rest of the country seems too bewildered and demoralized to summon majority in parliament for anything else anyway, so why delay the inevitable?

But the fundamental problem still remains (pun definitely intended): The anti-Johnson bloc is divided and leaderless. Corbyn will never muster a majority, and a lot of anti-Johnson conservatives will hold their nose and vote Boris rather than support Corbyn. If it were possible, the smartest course for Labour would be to drum out Corbyn at their conference next week and replace him with someone responsible. Keir Starmer, Hillary Benn, and Harriett Harman all come to mind as eminently reasonable choices. But because we live in a nightmare universe, that won't happen, and neither will a Swinson government.
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1357

Post by gshevlin »

The entire tactic of Johnson and Cummings is to try and goad the opposition into passing a no-confidence vote to trigger a General Election, which cannot now be held until after 10/31, while continuing to be rude to the EU so that the EU will not agree to an Article 50 extension.
That, in their world, will mean that the UK leaves the EU on 10/31 without any Withdrawal Agreement.
As to how they intend to get around the Benn Act...well, it does not seem that they can allow the UK to crash out of the EU after 10/31 without breaking the law. Whether they intend to just go ahead and dare the courts to stop them is not clear.
The Queen is supposed to be apolitical, but this shit-show is probably trying her patience severely, especially since her United Kingdom is become less united by the week.

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1358

Post by Mikedunford »

My understanding (which could be mistaken) is that if the minority parties can form a coalition within 14 days of a no-confidence vote, there's no automatic general election. If that's correct, then Boris has to tread a fine line - be obnoxious enough to push people into calling the vote, yet not so obnoxious as to push people into agreeing to even temporarily accept Corbyn as a caretaker.

I believe he could call a no-confidence vote himself; I wonder what's stopping him.
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1359

Post by Suranis »

Even Boris is not dumb enough to start a fight he has no idea if he will win. Besides, he could be instantly accused of gaming the situation, and he is already fielding constant accusations that he does not actually want a deal.

Personally, I've been coming around to the idea that he actually wants the crises of a no deal Brexit to sieze complete power. The Arrogance of his ministers seems to bear that out, that they think parliment will be irrelevent soon so why worry. WHich again comes back to calling a no confidence vote. If he is thrown out as PM he cant take advantage of the chaos.
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1360

Post by Dan1100 »

Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:16 pm
My understanding (which could be mistaken) is that if the minority parties can form a coalition within 14 days of a no-confidence vote, there's no automatic general election. If that's correct, then Boris has to tread a fine line - be obnoxious enough to push people into calling the vote, yet not so obnoxious as to push people into agreeing to even temporarily accept Corbyn as a caretaker.

I believe he could call a no-confidence vote himself; I wonder what's stopping him.
I almost hate to ask, but is there no chance of a minority agreeing to someone else besides Corbyn as a caretaker PM to take Boris and a no deal Brexit out of the picture?

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1361

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Suranis wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:27 pm
Even Boris is not dumb enough to start a fight he has no idea if he will win.
I think you're wrong there. While Johnson isn't dumb, he is sociopathic and narcissistic and he is enjoying this chaos and attention (according to his sister!). I don't think he cares much about consequences; certainly his personal history suggests that.

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1362

Post by Suranis »

Dan1100 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:34 pm
I almost hate to ask, but is there no chance of a minority agreeing to someone else besides Corbyn as a caretaker PM to take Boris and a no deal Brexit out of the picture?
Ok the minority would, but there is no way Corbyn would. The guys is cluelessly arrogant. It would litterelly be like asking Bernie to take a back seat. Corbyn would block it no matter what. The Labour party would have to toss him.
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1363

Post by Dan1100 »

Suranis wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:41 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:34 pm
I almost hate to ask, but is there no chance of a minority agreeing to someone else besides Corbyn as a caretaker PM to take Boris and a no deal Brexit out of the picture?
Ok the minority would, but there is no way Corbyn would. The guys is cluelessly arrogant. It would litterelly be like asking Bernie to take a back seat. Corbyn would block it no matter what. The Labour party would have to toss him.
So two arrogant a***oles playing chicken with a whole country's economy. Got it.

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1364

Post by Mikedunford »

Dan1100 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:57 pm
Suranis wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:41 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:34 pm
I almost hate to ask, but is there no chance of a minority agreeing to someone else besides Corbyn as a caretaker PM to take Boris and a no deal Brexit out of the picture?
Ok the minority would, but there is no way Corbyn would. The guys is cluelessly arrogant. It would litterelly be like asking Bernie to take a back seat. Corbyn would block it no matter what. The Labour party would have to toss him.
So two arrogant a***oles playing chicken with a whole country's economy. Got it.
:winner:
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1365

Post by RTH10260 »

Sajid Javid pledges to raise minimum wage to £10.50 in Conservative conference speech
Chancellor promises billions to boost economy after no‑deal Brexit

Oliver Wright, Policy Editor
September 30 2019, 5:00pm, The Times

The minimum wage will rise to £10.50 an hour by 2024, the chancellor said today as he moved to cast the Tories as the party of working people.

Sajid Javid said that the increase would “end low pay” by ensuring that no one could earn less than two thirds of the average hourly wage.

The policy is to be phased in over five years and will for the first time give workers aged between 21 and 25 the full legal minimum wage. The minimum wage is £7.70 for those over 21, rising to £8.21 an hour for over 25s. The chancellor’s move is likely to cost employers about £16 billion.

Labour has pledged to raise the minimum wage to that of the “living wage”


paywall https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -85gv96nxp

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1366

Post by RTH10260 »

Brexit: Ireland must have customs checks, says Boris Johnson

Steven Swinford, Bruno Waterfield
October 1 2019, 12:00pm, The Times

Boris Johnson has said it is “just the reality” that there will need to be customs checks on the island of Ireland after Britain leaves the European Union.

The prime minister said that a sovereign country must have a single customs territory as he prepared to give Brussels his formal proposals.

He denied reports that the government will propose a “string of customs posts” away from the border, which prompted a backlash from Ireland last night.

Simon Coveney, Ireland’s deputy prime minister, said on Twitter that Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland “deserve better”.

Mr Johnson insisted: “That’s not what we’re proposing at all.” However, he said that this is the “moment the rubber hits the roads”


paywall https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -tthwmsfjq

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1367

Post by RTH10260 »

Is this the start of N.Ireland becoming part of Ireland or the begin of fresh Troubles?

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1368

Post by Volkonski »

Will the DUP agree to this?
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1369

Post by neeneko »

Volkonski wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:08 am
Will the DUP agree to this?
I doubt it, but now that the conservatives don't need them for a majority, what they agree to or not is a lot less important now. Though what the DUP really fought against was the idea of a border within the union floating somewhere between the two islands, so they might take the land border over that possibility.

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1370

Post by Reality Check »

Suranis wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:41 pm
:snippity:
Ok the minority would, but there is no way Corbyn would. The guys is cluelessly arrogant. It would litterelly be like asking Bernie to take a back seat. Corbyn would block it no matter what. The Labour party would have to toss him.
I can see where as the leader of the largest opposition party Corbyn would expect to lead any interim coalition government. I read the other day where the leader of the SNP said as much. Jo Swinson Lib Dem leader hasn't come around to the idea of a Corbyn led government. She may be forced to though as events unfold this month.
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1371

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:10 pm
Dan1100 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:57 pm
Suranis wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:41 pm


Ok the minority would, but there is no way Corbyn would. The guys is cluelessly arrogant. It would litterelly be like asking Bernie to take a back seat. Corbyn would block it no matter what. The Labour party would have to toss him.
So two arrogant a***oles playing chicken with a whole country's economy. Got it.
:winner:
I don't have a high opinion of Jeremy Corbyn but I don't recall any signs of arrogance nor any politician or political commentator complaining of him being arrogant.

These opinions read like real lazy thinking. What signs of arrogance have you seen?

I'm not convinced that Corbyn is an asshole either. He has unpopular political views, he's on the ideologically intolerant side of his party, and he is weak in allowing his unpleasant advisers too much power to act nasty. But that's misguided weakness, not assholery. He was a poor choice for leader, but whose fault is that?

I don't see his and Labour's reluctance to agree to the formation of a coalition caretaker government under a different interim Prime Minister as arrogant or even misguided. Why should one expect the largest opposition party to meekly step aside at this stage? I emphasize "at this stage" because it's all only chatter now; the time to pass judgement is when abstract proposals become concrete actions.

Make no mistake: this Brexit mess is 100% a Conservative mess. No other party (other than the relentlessly vile Democratic Unionist Party, who are supporting the minority government) deserves even a scintilla of blame. Blaming Corbyn and Labour for the Johnson's mess would be like blaming Pelosi and Democrats for Trump's actions.

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1372

Post by Mikedunford »

Arrogant might be the wrong word. Unwarranted self-confidence, perhaps.

In addition to his rather remarkable popularity polling, he also still seems incredibly ambivalent about Brexit. I don't know how much of that is from his own personal Euroskepticism and how much is fear of alienating some of the party, but the result has been that at present neither of the major parties has a stance that's clearly pro-Remain. As far as I can tell, that's hurting Labour even more than it's hurting the Tories. Labour's polling is - despite the shambles in the Tory government - down by half over the past year, to a point where they're polling even with the Lib Dems.

And yet Corbyn's faith in himself and Labour's current policies seem unshakable.
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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1373

Post by RTH10260 »

Boris Johnson’s ‘final’ Brexit offer is unworkable, says EU
Oliver Wright, Bruno Waterfield, Francis Elliott and Sean O’Neill
October 2 2019, 12:00pm, The Times

Boris Johnson’s “final” Brexit offer to the European Union was dismissed as practically “unworkable” and politically “unacceptable” today, as Dublin and Brussels turned on the British plan.

The Irish foreign minister, Simon Coveney, said the government’s proposals, due to be formally tabled in Brussels today, did not “look like the basis for an agreement”. A senior European official added: “If this is the final offer, then it is no deal.”

Their dismissals followed leaked details of the British proposal that would abolish the Irish backstop and replace it with a mixture of checks at ports on the Irish sea and in Ireland.

Northern Ireland would leave the EU’s customs union, but remain tied to single market regulations for at least four years.


paywall https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -nn0fb78wr

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1374

Post by RTH10260 »

Ireland rejects Boris Johnson’s ‘final deal’

Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor | Chris Smyth, Whitehall Editor
October 3 2019, 1:45pm, The Times

Britain will leave the European Union without a deal unless Boris Johnson is willing to compromise further, Ireland has warned.

Simon Coveney, Ireland’s deputy prime minister, said that there were “fundamental problems” with Mr Johnson’s offer and that if it represented his “final deal” then the UK would leave the EU without one.

Downing Street officials insisted earlier this week that Mr Johnson’s new Brexit deal was his “final offer”. The proposals would see Northern Ireland stay in the EU’s single market for goods but leave the customs union.

However in the Commons Mr Johnson suggested that he might be willing to accept further changes to his Brexit plan.

Addressing the Irish parliament, Mr Coveney said that Mr Johnson’s plan did not form the basis…



paywall https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news ... -xzbd275b7

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Re: LEAVE Brexit Vote: Leave EU Thu 23 June - Market and US Election Impact

#1375

Post by RTH10260 »

catching up from yesterday
“Unadulterated garbage”: Experts react to Boris Johnson’s Brexit offer
October 2, 2019
By Sam Bright

There’s a reason Michael Gove said during the EU referendum campaign that he’d had enough of experts: they all know what they’re talking about.

And, in relation to Boris Johnson’s new Brexit “offer” to the European Union, they are in pretty much universal agreement that it’s a heap of horse manure.

To cut a long story short, Boris has proposed that Northern Ireland stays in the single market for goods (while the rest of the UK leaves), but that the whole of the UK would leave the customs union. The Northern Ireland Assembly would also be able to vote every four years on whether to keep these arrangements.

Essentially, this would create two borders in Ireland: one between the North and the Republic (since they would have different customs arrangements), and one between the North and the rest of the UK (since we would have different rules on goods).

Less than an hour after its release, this proposal has received the full treatment from experts, who fail to see the logic in Johnson’s plan.

https://scramnews.com/unadulterated-gar ... xit-offer/

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