The Casey Anthony Trial

LM K
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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2626

Post by LM K » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:52 pm

A note regarding the "seizures." The seizure in 2007 (actually, I believe it was late 2005 or early 2006, but whatever) is documented. There is no documentation--indeed, no proof whatsoever--that Casey Anthony suffered any seizures following Caylee Anthony's murder, either during the time that she was first out on bail and at home, or subsequently during her 3 years of incarceration. Of course, Casey's medical treatment records while in jail are confidential (and no more accessible to her parents than to anyone else, given that Casey is well past the age of majority), so the "seizure in jail" was just another lie that either Casey made up and passed along to Cindy, or that Cindy invented out of whole cloth. And, had Casey suffered a seizure while she was out on bail in August 2008, an ambulance would have been called. During that time, several news media outlets--as well as good-sized crowds of just folks--were camped out in front of the Anthony home 24/7. It's unlikely that an ambulance at the Anthony home would have gone unnoticed. And, even if Casey DID have two later seizures (in late summer of 2008 and again in jail (2008-2010?), what could that possibly have to do with a murder that took place in June of 2008? Not. One. Damned. Thing.Good points. Cindy is pointing to seizure(s) as evidence of some kind of brain abnormality that cause Casey to lie and to not understand fact from fiction. No one believes Cindy; frankly, I don't know that Cindy believes Cindy.If Casey had a series of seizures, that would have come out during the trial. Even thought a insanity defense was never viable in this case, showing that Casey had a history of seizures wouldn't have hurt her defense. It would have helped. Which is why no one believes Cindy on this issue.My personal dislike (yeah, maybe I'd call it "loathing," certainly disgust) for Cindy Anthony has dramatically increased as a result of these interviews. Oh, I can understand her inventing excuses for her daughter, and wanting desperately to believe that those excuses are true, particularly in the face of a lack of physical evidence that Casey (personally) murdered Caylee. I can understand that Cindy is caught between the hard place of losing her granddaughter, and the harder place of losing her daughter. The first...Cindy can't fix that. The second, well, I think Cindy wants desperately to 'fix' that, and she's more than willing to swallow every lie Casey ever told, and any she ever will tell, and sacrifice what remains of the rest of her family to have a "right" relationship with Casey. I can understand why Cindy believes the accidental drowning story; I can understand how Cindy takes the jury's verdict as a 'sign from God' that Casey is not guilty. Cindy has never, in my opinion, been particularly well-acquainted with the truth, nor much of a seeker of same. All Cindy has ever sought is a plausible (to her) story, which she is obviously more than willing to nurture to flowering herself, with just a few seeds supplied.Exactly. After watching clips of the Anthony interview, I have an even lower opinion of Cindy than I did before. I do think that Cindy's mental health is poor, but she was a bitch from the start. She was never interested in the truth; she did everything possible to block the investigation of Caylee's death. Cindy knows that.Some tv talking head said that we must have compassion for the Anthonys. I say bullshit. I'm sorry that their daughter is a monster and that they lost their granddaughter. I do believe that they adored Caylee. But I have no compassion for Cindy. I do have some for George. I think that a portion of what we are seeing from Cindy is an act. Cindy's denial is true; her description of the strength of her denial is a lie. IMO.But I cannot understand excusing the wrapping of Caylee Anthony's face in duct tape, triple bagging her in garbage bags, and throwing her body into a neighborhood trash dump by saying, "Well, what were we going to do with her [dead body] anyway? Cremate her. Once you're dead, the body is just a shell." Nothing else I heard from Cindy Anthoy's mouth during the Dr. Phil interviews shocked me, or even particularly surprised me...that did. And it made me sick. I don't believe that there could be anything Cindy Anthony could do now to ever make that statement (or that sentiment) okay.This is why I say Cindy is a freak. Cindy isn't in as much denial as she wants everyone to think she is in. Cindy is playing a media game in hope that her daughter will see how supportive she is being of her daughter so that she will have a relationship with Casey someday. Casey will never, ever have a relationship with her parents again; Cindy is in complete denial about that. Cindy is talking to Casey in these interviews. She is saying exactly what she thinks Casey wants her to say. This is why Cindy said that the jury's verdict was proof from God that Casey was not guilty. This is why she is saying that the manner in which Caylee's remains were disposed of wasn't a big deal. She wants Casey to believe that she bought Casey's lies.George? Well, I don't think he hurt himself particularly in these interviews, but I don't think he especially helped himself either. Actually, he didn't say much that he also didn't say in response to questions at trial (although he was more specific and definite about his belief that Casey was involved in Caylee's death, albeit even George excuses Casey's actions to a certain extent by his assertion that Casey didn't act alone).I also don't think the Anthony marriage has much of a future but, who knows? I doubt that anyone else would have either of them, and perhaps they know that only too well. Maybe they, along with their daughter, have a grand future as reality show stars (together). Like their daughter, I think they would do well to get the hell out of Orlando where, even if they should ever do something deserving of a fair shake, they'll never get it here.I think George did help himself by saying that he believes Casey is involved in Caylee's death. Americans want someone in the Anthony family to say that they think Casey played a role in Caylee's death. I believe George when he says that he blames Casey for Caylee's death and that he thinks she had something to do with why Caylee is dead. He does excuse Casey when he mentions that another person may have been involved, but when it comes down to it, he has said that Casey overdosed her child and that it is Casey's actions that resulted in the death of Caylee. I think that George even suspects that Casey killed Caylee on purpose; there is no way in hell he will ever say that to anyone. But he does believe that Caylee's body was in the trunk of Casey's car. He understands just how gruesome his daughter's actions were, and he is disgusted by her actions.The Anthonys will never have a reality show. Americans won't watch a show about them or with them. Americans would purchase a book written by the Anthonys, but Americans don't like the Anthonys. I hope the Anthonys shut up and disappear (not as in dead disappearing). They need to become private people again. I think that George wants that; Cindy doesn't.



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Highlands
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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2627

Post by Highlands » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:07 am

I watched this interview today. Yikes! :shock: George clearly knows that Casey killed Caylee. He doesn't understand why, but he knows she did. Cindy is fucking nuts. She clearly needs psychiatric help.


If you took out all of the blood vessels in your body and lined them up, you would be dead. #science

Emma
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#2628

Post by Emma » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:55 am




This is why I say Cindy is a freak. Cindy isn't in as much denial as she wants everyone to think she is in. Cindy is playing a media game in hope that her daughter will see how supportive she is being of her daughter so that she will have a relationship with Casey someday. Casey will never, ever have a relationship with her parents again; Cindy is in complete denial about that.





Cindy is talking to Casey in these interviews. She is saying exactly what she thinks Casey wants her to say. This is why Cindy said that the jury's verdict was proof from God that Casey was not guilty. This is why she is saying that the manner in which Caylee's remains were disposed of wasn't a big deal. She wants Casey to believe that she bought Casey's lies.This.





I don't think Cindy is delusional. She knows exactly what she's doing. I don't think her disgusting comment about Caylee's dead body was an act, however. IMO, she honestly believes that ... and to me that proves she's as much a sociopath as her daughter. I keep coming back to that [/break1]myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/070511-anthony-verdict/1/lg/11.htm]image of Cindy when Casey was acquitted of murder, the smirk and look in her eyes. It was chilling as hell. I don't think the nut fell far from the tree.





George, for his own well-being (both psychological and physical), needs to get as far away from these two as he can.



LM K
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#2629

Post by LM K » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:51 am

I watched this interview today. Yikes! :shock: George clearly knows that Casey killed Caylee. He doesn't understand why, but he knows she did. Cindy is fucking nuts. She clearly needs psychiatric help.Cindy has been in therapy for the past 3 years. Cindy has mentioned using medication for anxiety in the past, but that doesn't seem out of the norm when considering all Cindy has had to cope with these past 3 years. Cindy sounded really medicated in the interviews. I don't see Cindy ever getting her life back after this. Perhaps with a lot more therapy she can create a new life, but I'm not feeling hopeful about that. I will be very surprised if Cindy ever recovers from this. It is good that Cindy is getting help; it is the healthiest decision she has made in the past 3 years (or more). Cindy was in therapy before Caylee was murdered, but when her therapist strongly encouraged Cindy to stop putting up with Casey's shit and kick her out, Cindy quit therapy. Cindy's therapist also encouraged Cindy and George to seek custody of Caylee; the only reason Casey lived with her parents for so long was because the the Anthonys didn't feel like they could trust Casey to take adequate care of Caylee on her own. Thus, they didn't kick Casey out. I think that there was a huge fight the night before Caylee's murder and that Cindy threatened to take seek custody of Caylee. Perhaps this is why their foundation is addressing grandparent's rights.I suspect that George has been receiving help; usually, after a suicide attempt, therapy becomes mandatory unless one wants to be committed. He hasn't talked about getting help, so I don't know anything else about that. He appears pretty grounded in reality.I know that many are suspicious of George. I haven't really experienced that myself. I have always seen Cindy in a more negative light. It is good that Lee has kept himself away from the media. I hope he moves on with his life and is able to create a semi-normal life after all of this.



LM K
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#2630

Post by LM K » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:55 am







This is why I say Cindy is a freak. Cindy isn't in as much denial as she wants everyone to think she is in. Cindy is playing a media game in hope that her daughter will see how supportive she is being of her daughter so that she will have a relationship with Casey someday. Casey will never, ever have a relationship with her parents again; Cindy is in complete denial about that.





Cindy is talking to Casey in these interviews. She is saying exactly what she thinks Casey wants her to say. This is why Cindy said that the jury's verdict was proof from God that Casey was not guilty. This is why she is saying that the manner in which Caylee's remains were disposed of wasn't a big deal. She wants Casey to believe that she bought Casey's lies.This.





I don't think Cindy is delusional. She knows exactly what she's doing. I don't think her disgusting comment about Caylee's dead body was an act, however. IMO, she honestly believes that ... and to me that proves she's as much a sociopath as her daughter. I keep coming back to that [/break1]myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/070511-anthony-verdict/1/lg/11.htm]image of Cindy when Casey was acquitted of murder, the smirk and look in her eyes. It was chilling as hell. I don't think the nut fell far from the tree.





George, for his own well-being (both psychological and physical), needs to get as far away from these two as he can.You need to watch Cindy's deposition. Part one begins [link]here,[/link]. It is truly astonishing. I lost any respect for Cindy after watching this deposition.





One person made a compilation video of Cindy's facial expressions during the deposition. This is freaky.








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#2631

Post by Paul Lentz » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:49 pm

This is why I say Cindy is a freak. Cindy isn't in as much denial as she wants everyone to think she is in. Cindy is playing a media game in hope that her daughter will see how supportive she is being of her daughter so that she will have a relationship with Casey someday. [highlight]Casey will never, ever have a relationship with her parents again[/highlight]; Cindy is in complete denial about that.I disagree with you about that, LMK. I believe that, when who ever is Casey's last pimp has finished kicking her to the curb, Casey will turn to Cindy, and tell Cindy another complex and convoluted set of lies involving imaginary people, places, and situations, as well as more destructive lies about George and Lee, and probably Cindy's brothers (from whom Cindy is already estranged) and parents...all of which Cindy will swallow without hesitation. I have absolutely no doubt that Cindy would sacrifice George and Lee in a heartbeat to "reconcile" with Casey. That said, I have no doubt that Casey watched the Dr. Phil interviews, and my guess is that Casey sees Cindy as a stupid and pathetic--but still potentially useful--sucker and a fool. And I also have no doubt that Casey would not hesitate for one hot minute to use Cindy's maternal love for her deliberately, as a wedge to finally drive George away permanently, to "punish" George for seeing the truth as well as (perversely) to "punish" Cindy, just for being such a fool.Oh, yes...Casey will come back to Cindy, and she'll bleed her dry--emotionally, financially, and spiritually. Casey still holds the power in that family, in my opinion, as she has for many, many years. And while I wish I could feel some sympathy for Cindy Anthony--not only for the sadness and losses of her past, but for what I truly believe will be the sadness and losses of her future--I cannot help feeling that it is Cindy herself who wrote that bad check, and who continues to present it for payment.


The love of power will not win over the power of love.
Orlando, Florida 6/12/16

LM K
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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2632

Post by LM K » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:07 pm

For those who are interested (warning; this is a "Casey is innocent" site:





[link]Anthony Interviews Part 1 and 2,http://caseyanthonyisinnocent.com/casey ... y-anthony/[/link]





[link]Anthony Interview Transcript Part 1,http://caseyanthonyisinnocent.com/wp-co ... nt-com.pdf[/link]





Dr. Phil has another interview with the Anthonys today. The show will discuss the trial.





Paul, now, as I am watching the full interviews, I absolutely agree that Cindy would take Casey back in a second. I don't think the Anthony marriage will survive much longer (maybe a year?), so kicking George to the curb would be easy for Cindy if Casey says she wants to have a relationship with Cindy. I think that Cindy has already destroyed her relationship with Lee, at least for several years. If Cindy allows Casey back in her life, Lee will be out of there for good.





I don't know if Casey will approach Cindy. Based on the jailhouse letters and other info, I think Casey loathed her mother long before all of this happened. Casey feels victimized by her mother. If Casey can glob on to a man, I don't think that Casey will have any need for Cindy. If Casey can't take care of herself, then she will go back to Cindy. Cindy has a desperate need for Casey. But you make another good point; Casey could grab onto Cindy again simply to punish her parents and her brother. Casey would enjoy that. Casey feels like her family deserves to be punished.





George is done with his daughter. He believes the forensic evidence. He doesn't know what to believe about how Caylee died, but he knows that Casey did unconscionable things to Caylee after Caylee's death and that Casey was unconscionably cruel to her entire family for years. He doesn't understand this situation, but he knows it for what it is.





I no longer have any sympathy for Cindy. None at all. I should; she is obviously nutz.



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#2633

Post by Res Ipsa » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:59 pm

I no longer have any sympathy for Cindy. None at all. I should; she is obviously nutz.She struck me that way from day one.She destroyed evidence, attempted to interfere with a search for the body, lies on the stand in a criminal trial, and I find none of her explanations for her behavior to be credible. There's more objective basis to suggest that Cindy was covering up what happened than Casey was. Yeah, "rotten pizza lady", you have no idea what happened. Uh-huh. Had Casey been convicted and eventually had nothing to lose, Casey would have come out with exactly what Cindy's role in this whole thing really was.Casey can't be tried again, but Cindy can. You bet Cindy isn't going to cross Casey.


Thanks pal.

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#2634

Post by LM K » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:46 pm

OMFG.





Paul, you are so right about Cindy....





[link]Casey Anthony's father,http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/par ... ain/nDqhM/[/link] said that he doesn't believe it's possible to reconnect with his acquitted daughter and that she should be held responsible for his 2-year-old granddaughter's death.





snip.....





Cindy Anthony, however, said she hopes the relationship between mother and daughter can be mended and that she feels her daughter should have been acquitted.





snip.....





"When he (Baez) told me she had drowned in the pool and that Casey panicked ... I was hysterically crying and couldn't believe our daughter had put us through this and ruined her life," Cindy Anthony said.





George Anthony, who wasn't invited to that meeting, said he thinks it was all an effort to manipulate Cindy emotionally and set him up the scapegoat for Casey's erratic behavior during her disappearance.





snip.....





Cindy Anthony said she never believed the molestation allegations against her husband, but wanted her daughter to be acquitted.





snip.....Snip.....





[link]“He proceeds to tell me,http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entert ... -this.html[/link] that Casey wanted me to know how Caylee died,” Cindy told Dr. Phil McGraw of a private meeting she had with the attorney. “When he told me that Caylee had drowned in the pool and that Casey had panicked, my immediate reaction was relief for Caylee, because I know she didn’t suffer at that point. (Cindy is wrong about this; drowning is a very painful way to die.) … I couldn’t believe that my daughter put us all through this and that she ruined her life, that she, for three years, did not come forward and say something.”





Baez also said that he wanted to tell Cindy sooner, ”but Casey said no,” Cindy added.





snip.....





George Anthony said he didn’t believe that Caylee had drowned. “I never believed anything the defense had told me,” George said. “I feel that I’ve been played.” George said that Baez never reached out to him.





George Anthony dismissed Baez’s allegation that he had covered up Caylee’s drowning death. And Cindy sided with her husband and said she had no doubts about him. Cindy said that George became the “fall guy” for Baez “who was running out of people to blame besides Casey.”





snip.....





George said he didn’t want Casey to be put to death, but that he wanted his daughter held accountable for Caylee’s death. Cindy said she was relieved her daughter was acquitted on the most serious charges. ”I was elated when all three of them came [back] not guilty,” Cindy said.





snip.....I haven't watched this interview. While George has said that he believes Caylee's death may have been due to accidental overdose, I think he believes that Casey committed first degree murder. He does think that Casey had some help, but he may just mean that she had help disposing of Caylee's remains.





The [link]transcript,http://caseyanthonyisinnocent.com/wp-co ... nt-com.pdf[/link] for the 2nd part of the Anthony interview is now posted. I'll post a link to interview #3 when the video is posted.



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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2635

Post by LM K » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:21 pm

Casey Anthony is now ordered to reimburse the Orlando County Sheriff's Office $217,499.23. :-bd





[link]Perry had previously ordered,http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-exten ... z1YpGd2MBU[/link] Anthony to pay $97,676.98. His new order adds reimbursement for the Orange County Sheriff's Office after the agency submitted additional expense reports.





Here is the revised reimbursement cost amount by department:





Florida Department of Law Enforcement: $61,505.12


Metropolitan Bureau of Investigation: $10,283.90


Orange County Sheriff's Office: $145,660.21 (up from $25,837.96 in a previous order)


State Attorney's Office: $50





Perry originally said that several OCSO reports were not adequately broken down, and that he needed more information on how OCSO employees spent time on the case in 2008, including investigators Yuri Melich, John Allen and others.


[link]Judge Perry's original order,http://www.wesh.com/pdf/29195158/detail.html[/link].





[link]Judge Perry's Revised Order may be read at HuPo,http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/2 ... hony_Trial[/link].





Casey spoke to People Mag for free last week. Maybe Casey won't cash in on this for a while. I hope she doesn't cash in at all. It is interesting that her first report was free. I wonder if the Anthony interview with Dr. Phil has lessened Casey's marketability.





I haven't read the article, but basically, Casey is lonely (boo freaking hoo), taking online classes, and trying to learn a new language so she can leave the country once her parole is over. She has no friends and isn't speaking to family. She is seeing a grief counselor and will start seeing a psychiatrist soon.





I would have to be paid an obscene amount of money to take on Casey Anthony as a client.



LM K
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#2636

Post by LM K » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:39 am

[link]For the first time, the Florida Bar is confirming the general nature of the two ongoing complaints,http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... 1302.story[/link] lodged against Casey Anthony defense attorney Jose Baez.





snip.....





While there has been broad speculation about what the Baez complaints involve, only today has the Bar confirmed the two issues with greater clarity. Both involve Baez and his actions during the Casey Anthony case. And both matters were already addressed publicly to some extent by Perry, Orange-Osceola's chief judge.





snip.....





First Complaint





In early January, Perry lectured Baez in court after he failed to share detailed information with prosecutors about the opinions of expert witnesses. This incident arose despite earlier orders by Perry specifying what should be provided to the prosecution.





snip.....





Second Complaint





Many months later, after the trial and Anthony's acquittal of the most serious charges against her, the issue of her probation for her check-fraud case resurfaced.





snip.....





But Perry also raised the defense attorney's behavior and his failure to disclose Anthony's mis-applied jail-house probation.





snip.....




The Texas EquuSearch suit is to continue:





[link]A judge this afternoon denied a motion to dismiss,http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... 1287.story[/link] the civil case filed against Casey Anthony by the mounted search-and-recovery group Texas EquuSearch.





snip.....





Anthony's attorney, Charles Greene, argued to have the lawsuit dismissed. But Texas EquuSearch attorney Marc Wites maintained Casey Anthony "induced" the group to search for Caylee herself, indicating the child was alive. She also failed to correct others, including family, who said the same thing.





snip.....





Texas EquuSearch, which organized early searches for Caylee Marie Anthony in 2008, wants reimbursement for $110,000 spent on two, multi-day searches conducted in September and November of that year.





snip.....





"Based on representations by Ms. Anthony and others in her presence that Caylee was 'missing,' that Ms. Anthony did not know what happened to her, and that Ms. Anthony and others believed she was alive, TES mobilized the second largest rescue operation in its history," states one Texas EquuSearch court document.





snip.....





Greene argued that the search group relied on statements of the Anthony family and law enforcement, not just Casey Anthony.





snip.....

Casey was just deposed in the Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez case:





[link]A disguised Casey Anthony,http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... 6795.story[/link] described as angry but composed, was deposed this morning in the defamation suit filed against her by Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez.





She answered few questions and her attorney repeatedly invoked Anthony's Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination, according to attorney John Morgan, who represents Gonzalez.





Morgan asked the questions of Anthony via video link from Morgan & Morgan's downtown offices. Anthony's location has not been revealed.





snip.....





Casey wore a Philadelphia Philllies baseball cap, "gigantic sunglasses" and what appeared to be a long, dark-haired wig during the deposition, Morgan said.





snip.....





Morgan said he supported the decision to hold the deposition via video, given public outcry over Anthony's acquittal and concerns about her safety.Why would Casey wear a disguise during a video link? I can understand why she would wear a disguise to and from the law office, but during the deposition?




Edit: I found out why Casey wore a disguise. Her deposition [link]may become available to the public,http://www.wftv.com/news/news/crime-law ... day/nFKbQ/[/link].





Even if the video becomes available to the public, everyone knows who Casey Anthony is. Unless she has made dramatic changes to her appearance, everyone will know what she looks like without the disguise.



LM K
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#2637

Post by LM K » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:01 am

Transcript of the [link]Zenaida Gonzales v. Casey Anthony deposition,http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news ... 11-001.pdf[/link] on Sat, Oct 8th.Lawyers, what are your thoughts regarding the extensive use of the 5th on so many questions, many of which were very, very basic? I appreciate that Casey has every right to use the 5th, and I am not surprised that she did so repeatedly. However, it is obvious that her lawyer believes they can get through this case without a Judge compelling Casey to answer many of these questions.Can Casey's answers from depositions in her criminal trial be used in this trial? In this current deposition, Casey's lawyer instructed Casey to exert her 5th Amendment rights on questions that the entire world has seen Casey answer on video of previous depositions.Thoughts? Was Casey's lawyer stonewalling or buying time? Is doing so in Casey's best interest?



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#2638

Post by A Legal Lohengrin » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:18 pm

I am not surprised that she did so repeatedly.Can you cherry-pick questions with that right? I thought once you invoked it, you intended to pretty much stop answering questions.You can take it on matters which you reasonably believe would put you in jeopardy of criminal prosecution. If you take it on everything frivolously, you will be compelled to answer any non-Fifth questions, and you will have to pay the other side's lawyer(s) to file the motion to compel you.



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Paul Lentz
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#2639

Post by Paul Lentz » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:55 pm

Transcript of the [link]Zenaida Gonzales v. Casey Anthony deposition,http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news ... 11-001.pdf[/link] on Sat, Oct 8th.





Lawyers, what are your thoughts regarding the extensive use of the 5th on so many questions, many of which were very, very basic? I appreciate that Casey has every right to use the 5th, and I am not surprised that she did so repeatedly. However, it is obvious that her lawyer believes they can get through this case without a Judge compelling Casey to answer many of these questions.LMK, as you are aware, Casey Anthony was convicted of 4 criminal counts of providing false information to law enforcement. Those convictions are currently on appeal (in the Florida 5th District Court of Appeal), and there is at least the potential (although not the likelihood) that those convictions could be overturned on appeal. Thus, given that the Zenaida Gonzalez civil suit has Casey Anthony's lies as its foundation, and given that the appeal of those convictions is unresolved, it was entirely appropriate for Casey Anthony to have invoked her 5th amendment rights during the deposition (or attorney-client privilege) to any question which might be used against her in her criminal appeal.





That said, I thought Casey's attorney carried the privilege and 5th amendment refusals a bit far; however, the judge in the civil case apparently did not agree. Gonzalez's attorney did file a motion to compel following the deposition, and was turned down.





Can Casey's answers from depositions in her criminal trial be used in this trial? In this current deposition, Casey's lawyer instructed Casey to exert her 5th Amendment rights on questions that the entire world has seen Casey answer on video of previous depositions.I assume you're thinking of taped law enforcement interrogations of Casey Anthony during the period in July 2008 when Caylee was "missing." To my knowledge, Casey Anthony was never deposed (by anyone, and certainly not by the State/prosecution) prior to her criminal trial in 2011. That aside, yes, those taped law enforcement interrogations, the "jail house tapes" of her family visitations, and any written statements Casey Anthony provided during the period from 2008-2011 (and before, and after, and not necessarily within the context of the investigation into her daughter's disappearance/death) can be introduced as evidence during the Gonzalez civil trial--when and if it ever comes to trial.





The current speculation in the Orlando legal community is that Casey Anthony is likely to settle the Zenaida Gonzalez civil suit (as well as the Texas Equusearch civil suit), if possible, and neither will ever come to trial. Quite simply, once the criminal appeal is resolved (and again, there is almost zero chance that Casey Anthony will win that appeal), there is no longer any issue of self-incrimination in the course of prosecution (the "prosecution" will be done), and the 5th amendment protections will no longer apply. In the course of the civil trials, Jose Baez's opening and closing statements at the criminal trial can be explored (point by point) with Casey Anthony (who cannot avoid testifying in a civil case), and she would be compelled to answer those questions, under oath, from the witness stand. Inconsistencies between those statements and the evidence (including prior statements) can be explored--picked entirely apart. While she wouldn't be on trial for murder, many of the same witnesses (law enforcement, her family, her friends from the period when Caylee first went missing) would be called. In the context of the civil trials, it would not surprise me to see some others who were more peripheral 'circus' players (like "bounty hunter" Leonard Padilla and his team) get called as witnesses. It would be a jury trial, held here in Orlando (there would be no change of venue). Even if the civil trial was removed a year or more from the criminal trial, I don't believe that the general sentiment among the population (and potential jury pool) here that Casey Anthony got away with murder, and should be brought to some justice any way she can be, will have much abated. Indeed, in the interim, should Casey Anthony finally cash in (as she is still expected to do) on her celebrity, that sentiment will likely have festered and grown.





Was Casey's lawyer stonewalling or buying time? Is doing so in Casey's best interest? From my perspective, the answer to both your questions is yes (stonewalling)/yes (buying time) and yes (doing so is in Casey Anthony's best interest).





You asked in an earlier post about the reason for Casey's "disguise" during her deposition. I probably have the answer for that one:





Casey Anthony is truly a HATED person in Florida. While I believe that some of the "death threat" talk from her attorneys has been more hype than fact, I have absolutely no doubt that, should her current location be disclosed, she would be in physical danger of vigilante justice. At this point, and for the next eight months (for the duration of her probation), her location (general and specific) will continue to be protected. While the State does not and will not "guard" her, neither will they endanger her by releasing information regarding her location/residence. In preparation for the day when even that level of "protection" ends, it is my understanding that Casey Anthony has had, and may well continue to have, some "work" done to alter her appearance so that she is not so readily recognizable on the street. The "disguise" she wore during the deposition was (so I hear) an attempt to look like she did 'before' (during the criminal trial). My personal guess is that all Casey Anthony has actually had "done" is a haircut (and maybe a dye job). She may have also gained (or lost) some significant weight (or might be trying to appear to have done so).





Now, I personally doubt that Casey Anthony has done, or will do, much to alter her appearance (other than hair restyling--which most young women do regularly, anyway, and possibly a boob job, maybe some collagen in her lips ('cause that's trendy), perhaps have her ears pinned back). I think Casey Anthony is too narcissistic to change her appearance to the point that she would not be readily recognized--regardless any possible "danger," I think Casey really gets off on her celebrity, and likely deludes herself into believing that she is admired. To be sure, there are certainly those who find her attractive (although I am not among them, nor do I personally know anyone who has expressed that opinion beyond the qualified, "better than the average hooker." In fact, I think that Casey Anthony will spend the next 20 years fervently chasing her celebrity in any way that she can.





And I think that she may have missed her "big chance" to cash in. Prosecutor Jeff Ashton's book about the case (Imperfect Justice) came out today, and Lifetime Networks has already announced that they're in negotiations with Ashton to turn the book into a movie. Sure, there's still going to be some market for Casey Anthony interviews and a book, maybe even a second movie (just as there was for OJ), but there are too many books and interviews from other people ahead of her now--it's no longer fresh--and that market diminishes with time.


The love of power will not win over the power of love.
Orlando, Florida 6/12/16

LM K
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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2640

Post by LM K » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:26 am

Thanks, Paul. I often forget that Casey is still appealing the 4 counts of lying to police verdicts. I find it odd that I write off those 4 charges even though they really are so critical to what happened in this case! #-o





Everything you say makes perfect sense, esp with her appeal taken into consideration. I'm not surprised that the Judge in GZ v CA case denied the latest motion to compel; as you've point out in the past, this case will continue for some time.





[quote name=Paul Lentz]





Can Casey's answers from depositions in her criminal trial be used in this trial? In this current deposition, Casey's lawyer instructed Casey to exert her 5th Amendment rights on questions that the entire world has seen Casey answer on video of previous depositions.




I assume you're thinking of taped law enforcement interrogations of Casey Anthony during the period in July 2008 when Caylee was "missing." To my knowledge, Casey Anthony was never deposed (by anyone, and certainly not by the State/prosecution) prior to her criminal trial in 2011. That aside, yes, those taped law enforcement interrogations, the "jail house tapes" of her family visitations, and any written statements Casey Anthony provided during the period from 2008-2011 (and before, and after, and not necessarily within the context of the investigation into her daughter's disappearance/death) can be introduced as evidence during the Gonzalez civil trial--when and if it ever comes to trial.




Sorry! Yes, I meant the jailhouse tapes.





The current speculation in the Orlando legal community is that Casey Anthony is likely to settle the Zenaida Gonzalez civil suit (as well as the Texas Equusearch civil suit), if possible, and neither will ever come to trial. Quite simply, once the criminal appeal is resolved (and again, there is almost zero chance that Casey Anthony will win that appeal), there is no longer any issue of self-incrimination in the course of prosecution (the "prosecution" will be done), and the 5th amendment protections will no longer apply. In the course of the civil trials, Jose Baez's opening and closing statements at the criminal trial can be explored (point by point) with Casey Anthony (who cannot avoid testifying in a civil case), and she would be compelled to answer those questions, under oath, from the witness stand. Inconsistencies between those statements and the evidence (including prior statements) can be explored--picked entirely apart. While she wouldn't be on trial for murder, many of the same witnesses (law enforcement, her family, her friends from the period when Caylee first went missing) would be called. In the context of the civil trials, it would not surprise me to see some others who were more peripheral 'circus' players (like "bounty hunter" Leonard Padilla and his team) get called as witnesses. It would be a jury trial, held here in Orlando (there would be no change of venue). Even if the civil trial was removed a year or more from the criminal trial, I don't believe that the general sentiment among the population (and potential jury pool) here that Casey Anthony got away with murder, and should be brought to some justice any way she can be, will have much abated. Indeed, in the interim, should Casey Anthony finally cash in (as she is still expected to do) on her celebrity, that sentiment will likely have festered and grown.







Unless Casey has money, and assuming that Zenaida Gonzalez's lawyer isn't going to bill her unless money is made in the case (I suspect this is the financial arrangement, but I can't say that for certain), what benefit is it to Zenaida Gonzalez to settle her case against Casey?





Right now, to our knowledge, Casey has nothing to her name (more about that below). Settling with Zenaida Gonzalez would be very wise IMO, but who would settle with someone who has nothing to offer? Might Casey earn $$$ from this? Sure. But she has nothing to offer right now or in the foreseeable future. In many civil cases, I could see a plaintiff settling for very little or just dropping the case once they no longer felt it was in their interest to continue with the case. However, Zenaida Gonzalez was treated very harshly on a national level because of Casey Anthony; the woman was called a baby killer, she received death threats against herself and her children, etc. She has kept this case going for some time, and while I am sure she is tired of this, I don't see her being willing to settle this case for nothing or almost nothing. A jury trial would at least give Zenaida Gonzalez a feeling of power, allowing her to taking back her name and personal honor. Based on her attorney's comments, I think that Zenaida Gonzalez feels that getting Casey in the court room would be the best end to this case, esp since Casey has nothing.





IMO, Texas Equusearch has many more reasons to not pursue against Casey; donors want TE to find kids, not spend money on lawsuits. Volunteers with TE want financial resources to help them as they try to find kids. TE didn't lose face (IMO) because of Casey's lies. They lost money, and certainly, those involved with the group feel shitty when they realized that they could have searched for other living kids rather than Caylee. But TE is much less personally entwined with Casey Anthony. Still, she and her family cost them over $100,000 which could have saved a child. The time and money lost could have saved another missing child. Still, TE may have an easier time walking away from Casey Anthony that Zenaida Gonzalez.





I know that there are legal issues that effect how successful TE and Zenaida Gonzalez's cases would be. But I think that Zenaida Gonzalez is going to go the distance with this, even if only to get emotional retribution.











Casey Anthony is truly a HATED person in Florida. I'm quite glad that Florida hasn't forgotten to hate her! While I believe that some of the "death threat" talk from her attorneys has been more hype than fact, I have absolutely no doubt that, should her current location be disclosed, she would be in physical danger of vigilante justice. Absolutely agreed. At this point, and for the next eight months (for the duration of her probation), her location (general and specific) will continue to be protected. While the State does not and will not "guard" her, neither will they endanger her by releasing information regarding her location/residence. In preparation for the day when even that level of "protection" ends, it is my understanding that Casey Anthony has had, and may well continue to have, some "work" done to alter her appearance so that she is not so readily recognizable on the street. The "disguise" she wore during the deposition was (so I hear) an attempt to look like she did 'before' (during the criminal trial). My personal guess is that all Casey Anthony has actually had "done" is a haircut (and maybe a dye job). She may have also gained (or lost) some significant weight (or might be trying to appear to have done so).




I would bet $100 that Casey cut her hair by at least 10"s a few weeks after she settled in FL, if not sooner. I think she grew her hair out as a way to measure her prison experience. Women and hair .... we use it and change it for so many psychological reasons. In prison, the only thing Casey was truly in control of was her hair length. I am certain she had the "my life has changed" transitional haircut that many women get. Her transition was just super major.





The idea of having Casey look like she did before the trial is interesting. Rather than wearing the enormous blonde wig, bug-eye sunglasses and weird clothes, her disguise may have been very minimal. I think this is pretty clever. Returning to her pre-trial appearance could be an effective disguising while she is in maximum hiding. It won't be enough, but we have all had that experience when we bump into someone we haven't seen someone for 2 years, they lose/gain weight and change their hair color and .... you don't recognize them at first. But for Casey, that would only get her through a large crowd.





Now, I personally doubt that Casey Anthony has done, or will do, much to alter her appearance (other than hair restyling--which most young women do regularly, anyway, and possibly a boob job, maybe some collagen in her lips ('cause that's trendy), perhaps have her ears pinned back). I think Casey Anthony is too narcissistic to change her appearance to the point that she would not be readily recognized--regardless any possible "danger," I think Casey really gets off on her celebrity, and likely deludes herself into believing that she is admired. To be sure, there are certainly those who find her attractive (although I am not among them, nor do I personally know anyone who has expressed that opinion beyond the qualified, "better than the average hooker." In fact, I think that Casey Anthony will spend the next 20 years fervently chasing her celebrity in any way that she can.




You raise an interesting issue. Casey really is a narcissist. She has always taken a lot of pride in her appearance (no crime in that); I could see why she might be reluctant to make changes. Her looks worked very well for her before.





Unlike most who get cosmetic surgery, Casey needs to make significant (relatively) changes in a (relatively) short period of time. Most who have cosmetic surgery don't make enormous changes and they have the option of changing their appearance. Casey doesn't really have a lot of choice in this. She either makes significant changes or she lives in seclusion.





Casey would be an easy person to re-image. She should have a breast reduction (or breast augmentation reversal); she is well-endowed; fewer people will take a first look at her with an average bust line. Nose job; I suspect Casey wants one anyway. Her nose is the defining feature on her face; change that, and 3/4 of the job is done. Insert some cheek implants, and she is ready to go. Oh, and she can never wear her natural hair color again! (Casey already has large lips, so unless she wants to look like Meg Ryan or Lisa Rinna, she should leave those lips alone.)





That is what she should do if she is smart. But as you say, Casey likes being a "celebrity". I think she will change her appearance if she is afraid enough. I think her therapists and lawyers can help her realize how critical it is that people don't recognize her. What is likely to happen? Her therapist and lawyers will plead with her to change her appearance, she will only change her hair, she will be recognized, then get terrified, and then finally get the work done that she needs to have done for her safety.








And I think that she may have missed her "big chance" to cash in. Prosecutor Jeff Ashton's book about the case (Imperfect Justice) came out today, and Lifetime Networks has already announced that they're in negotiations with Ashton to turn the book into a movie. Sure, there's still going to be some market for Casey Anthony interviews and a book, maybe even a second movie (just as there was for OJ), but there are too many books and interviews from other people ahead of her now--it's no longer fresh--and that market diminishes with time.




Yep; I just read the below article/book discussion about Ashton's newly released book. The only think that would earn Casey money now would be a full admission of guilt. Ashton just took the majority of the pot. Baez is writing a book, but Ashton beat him to the shelves by months or a year. The Anthonys appear so traumatized by Casey's insistence that George molested her and killed her daughter that I don't know that they will be able to work on a project any time soonish.





Now that Ashton's book is out, a lot of folks will read his book and be done. Most dislike Baez (more than a lot), but some will buy Baez' book. But Casey and her parents are such liars; there will be a tiny market for info from them, but the public found Ashton to be the most believable. That could change, but I don't count on it.





Casey's $$$$ train has left. After reading the books by Ashton and Baez, America will have their final Casey fix and won't pay a penny to purchase anything that gives Casey money. Except for the freaky "Marry Me Casey" boys who need to be hosed down.








Ashton appeared on CNN today to discuss his new book:


[link]Casey Pinned Death on George,http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof ... ny-lie.hln[/link]


[link]Casey Anthony Infamous,http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof ... nthony.hln[/link]


[link]Casey's Story was Concocted,http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof ... ations.hln[/link]


[link]Ashton on Jose Baez,http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof ... e-baez.hln[/link]





Orlando Sentinel On Ashton's Book: [link]Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony,http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... full.story[/link]





:shock: A plea deal had been seriously considered; was the reason for the competency hearing. :shock:





Cheney Mason asked the Prosecution for a plea; Casey would admit to being guilty of 2nd degree murder and would serve 30 years. Casey refused to even entertain the idea, which is what caused Baez and Cheney to request a competency hearing during the trial. What a gamble on Casey's part.





Good FSM, things could have gotten so much crazier. Ya have to read this article. I was thinking about skipping the book; I'm a bit disgusted by the Anthony clan. However, the info in the article is enough to hook me as a shrinky lady; I suspect our lawyers would have a field day with this book.








snip.....





The ever changing nature of Casey's stories explain why Ashton wrote early on: "I have seen my share of liars, but never one quite like this." Near the end of the book, he observes, "In many ways, I think the defense came to mirror the client they represented."





snip.....





On Monday, Ashton said, "Most attorneys would find many of the things we talk about in the book to be ethically objectionable," and he suggested the text could lead to more formal ethics inquiries. [wild speculation]Might Ashton let it all fall in order to get Baez out of the legal profession? Baez is under formal investigation (confirmed by the bar). I wonder if Ashton is going to out something that he himself did in the hopes that Baez' conduct will be looked at more fully[/]wild speculation].





snip.....





One of Casey Anthony's mental health experts, Dr. Jeffrey Danziger, was very concerned about sharing what Casey had told him about her father, worried he was becoming a mouthpiece for "very, very serious allegations against someone in a situation where there is no other evidence he actually did anything."





Casey later told another defense expert, Dr. William Weitz, that she was concerned George might be Caylee's father until DNA testing by the FBI ruled that out. Casey told Weitz "Caylee could not have died by accident and that George had murdered her," Ashton wrote in the book.





When the prosecution wanted Casey interviewed by its mental health expert, the defense pulled their two experts from their witness list, meaning Danziger and Weitz would not testify at trial. Ashton claims Baez had wanted those two "to get Casey's story in front of the jury without having Casey actually testify."





snip.....




A few highlights:





*Right after Casey was deposed by 2 forensic psychiatrists, Baez called Cindy to see him in his office. Instead of telling Cindy what Casey said in those 2 depositions, he told her 2 things. One; Caylee died at the house. Two; the State is (was) investigating George for the murder. This was a lie, and the State made sure that the Anthonys knew that George was not a suspect at all. The State had charged Casey and Casey alone.





Was Baez hoping to get a false confession? Might this be behind George's suicide attempt? Gotta read the book now! If this is true, then the impossible has occurred; I am able to think even less of Baez than I did this morning.





*Casey was deposed by 2 forensic psychiatrists for the defense. She told the psychiatrists that her father had intentionally murdered Caylee. When the Prosecution requested to have Casey deposed by their own forensic psychiatrist, the Defense pulled both of their forensic psychiatrists so that the Prosecution couldn't depose Casey with a forensic psychiatrist.





*Ashton claims that Cindy chose Casey over Caylee, which had a very significant impact on the case.





*The Prosecution warned that Anthonys about the content of the depositions that Casey gave to the Defense's 2 mental health experts, "out of moral obligation".





*Casey agreed that Caylee didn't die on accident; Casey blames her father for intentionally murdering Caylee.





*Ashton has no love for Baez, and had hoped that the addition of Cheney Mason would class up the Defense. According to Ashton, Baez just drug Cheney into the muck. Baez has made a formal response to the book through his PR Agent. See at the link.



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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2641

Post by LM K » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:40 am

[link]One psychologist expressed apprehension,http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45299060/ns ... nd_courts/[/link] about his evaluation being used to support that defense theory, Ashton writes, especially since Anthony had scored in a normal range on a test designed to discover mental disorders. The other psychologist gave Anthony a battery of tests to diagnose stress from trauma such as sexual molestation. The tests didn't support the theory that she had been molested, Ashton writes.A few weeks before trial, prosecutors met with George Anthony, and his wife, Cindy, to give them a heads-up about the molestation accusations that the defense planned to use at trial.



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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2642

Post by LM K » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:12 am

[link]Bill Sheaffer: WFTV legal analyst discusses Ashton's book,http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/bill-sh ... ons/vFC5P/[/link]. The video is about 30 mins. Many of us watched Sheaffer regularly during the trial, and he was the local legal analyst on the case. I'm just starting the video, but so far, it's good. Sheaffer talks about the possible effect this book may have on the Zenaida Gonzales case.OMG! Casey said she would sleep with Caylee because she was so afraid that he father would molest her daughter. WTF!? But, then Ms. Unemployed Leech leaves her 2 year-old with the man she think was molesting Caylee ..... so Ms Unemployed Leech could go binge drinking? :evil: :evil: And Casey told one doctor that her father stopped raping her in her early teens. She told the other doctor that her father raped her until her late teens and that she was worried that Caylee was her father's daughter; Caylee was the result of incest. Oh, but she told one of the docs that she was never molested .... and then she told him that she was. :evil: :evil:This was so much more vile than I ever knew. Casey is really lucky that her lawyers were able to keep all of the forensic psychiatrists off the stand. There is no way she could have survived their testimony.I no longer think that Casey is a sociopath. If Ashton is being truthful, I think she is a psychopath. And I think that she is much, much more dangerous that I ever realized she is. This is one sick woman. She reminds me of [link]Diane Downs,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Downs[/link] (this shooting occurred a few miles from my home; Downs is a truly vile woman). Casey isn't a young mom who got overwhelmed. This women is dangerous to whomever she encounters. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:Now Casey has to have serious plastic surgery. A hair change and nose job isn't going to be enough.I bet Casey Anthony eats kittens and puppies for dinner. And then butterflies and ladybugs for dessert.
Edit: Damn wurds.



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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2643

Post by SueDB » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:31 am

LM K - the real reason our penal system is screwed up is because we incarcerate way too many people.For a "free country" we sure have an awful lot of prisons and folks in prisons. Hardin Montana is still empty.


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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2644

Post by Paul Lentz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:04 pm

Thanks, Paul. I often forget that Casey is still appealing the 4 counts of lying to police verdicts. I find it odd that I write off those 4 charges even though they really are so critical to what happened in this case! #-o





Everything you say makes perfect sense, esp with her appeal taken into consideration. I'm not surprised that the Judge in GZ v CA case denied the latest motion to compel; as you've point out in the past, this case will continue for some time.LMK, lots of people forget that Casey was convicted of four criminal (albeit misdemeanor) counts at the conclusion of her murder trial. They also forget that Casey has 6 felony convictions (for the check fraud and theft from Amy Huizenga). She's actually going to have to walk a pretty fine line for the rest of her life with regards to her activities; what might be a minor criminal infraction for someone else would--for Casey, with her criminal record--likely mean prison time for Casey Anthony. Personally, I doubt she can sustain lawful behavior much beyond her current probation (another 8 months), while she is (I understand) under the supervision of a member of her criminal defense team, and while her location is secret. Once Casey is cut loose (or she decides to cut herself loose), I expect her to behave badly again. Already a convicted thief, and with a long history of stealing from her family, grandparents, and friends rather than actually working for a living, I'd expect her to continue that behavior (at the least).





Unless Casey has money, and assuming that Zenaida Gonzalez's lawyer isn't going to bill her unless money is made in the case (I suspect this is the financial arrangement, but I can't say that for certain), what benefit is it to Zenaida Gonzalez to settle her case against Casey?





Right now, to our knowledge, Casey has nothing to her name (more about that below). Settling with Zenaida Gonzalez would be very wise IMO, but who would settle with someone who has nothing to offer? Might Casey earn $$$ from this? Sure. But she has nothing to offer right now or in the foreseeable future. In many civil cases, I could see a plaintiff settling for very little or just dropping the case once they no longer felt it was in their interest to continue with the case. However, Zenaida Gonzalez was treated very harshly on a national level because of Casey Anthony; the woman was called a baby killer, she received death threats against herself and her children, etc. She has kept this case going for some time, and while I am sure she is tired of this, I don't see her being willing to settle this case for nothing or almost nothing. A jury trial would at least give Zenaida Gonzalez a feeling of power, allowing her to taking back her name and personal honor. Based on her attorney's comments, I think that Zenaida Gonzalez feels that getting Casey in the court room would be the best end to this case, esp since Casey has nothing.First of all, yes, Zenaida Gonzalez is very likely being represented on a contingency fee basis. Secondly, yes--at least right now--Casey Anthony has nothing (she filed an insolvency affidavit for waiver of her filing fees in her criminal appeal). However, Casey Anthony still has some substantial near future earning potential (print/tv interviews, book, film, photo spreads (no pun intended, although Hustler is probably her best prospect there), etc.). While I believe, as I've said before, that the value of Casey's post-trial media appearances diminishes every day, and with each piece of that pie taken by others (like her parents with their Dr. Phil interviews, or Jeff Ashton with his book/potential movie/multiple interviews) there's probably still a million $$ to be made. Should Zenaida Gonzalez receive a judgment today (either through settlement or jury award), that judgment could (and probably would) attach to Casey Anthony's future income. Further, here in Florida, our circuit judges have the authority to require alternative dispute resolution (typically in the form of mediation) participation by the parties. During the course of such mediation (if so ordered), if Casey Anthony (through her attorneys) came up with a settlement offer close to Gonzalez's damages demand, the court is certainly not going to respond positively should Gonzalez (through her attorneys) reject that offer. In my opinion, Zenaida Gonzalez doesn't need a trial to achieve vindication (although such public vindication of Gonzalez, along with public villification of Anthony might be very satisfying)--in that 'court of public opinion,' Gonzalez has already been vindicated. Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't be very sympathetic to Gonzalez if she is offered a settlement (even in future $$) close to her damages demand, but still takes this case to litigation--spending the taxpayer dollars and court resources necessary to take it to trial. Ditto Texas EquuSearch.





I know that there are legal issues that effect how successful TE and Zenaida Gonzalez's cases would be. But I think that Zenaida Gonzalez is going to go the distance with this, even if only to get emotional retribution. I think that John Morgan (Gonzalez's attorney) would love to take the case through a very public trial, despite the costs to Morgan & Morgan (as an offset of their contingency fee) to do so. I like John Morgan--quite a lot, actually--but he's certainly happier in a video depo or on the courtroom cameras of a high profile trial than he is in a settlement conference or mediation.








You raise an interesting issue. Casey really is a narcissist. She has always taken a lot of pride in her appearance (no crime in that); I could see why she might be reluctant to make changes. [highlight]Her looks worked very well for her before[/highlight].I would disagree with that. With the exception of Jesse Grund, Casey's relationships have been a series of short-lived (at best a few months, more typically a night or two) encounters and her own fantasies (Jeff Hopkins). I think Casey Anthony has certainly tried to use her looks (and easy sex) to attract companions. Sure, it has worked, if you call bouncing from man to man like a pinball to a bumper a lifestyle that "works." For a hooker, maybe.





Yep; I just read the below article/book discussion about Ashton's newly released book. The only think that would earn Casey money now would be a full admission of guilt. Ashton just took the majority of the pot. Baez is writing a book, but Ashton beat him to the shelves by months or a year. The Anthonys appear so traumatized by Casey's insistence that George molested her and killed her daughter that I don't know that they will be able to work on a project any time soonish.I don't think the Anthonys (Cindy and George) are marketable. They shot the wad, so to speak, on Dr. Phil and, I think, did themselves no favors in that process. Cindy Anthony is not a sympathetic character (the only person less sympathetic is Casey Anthony). George Anthony doesn't fare much better with the public. In addition to Baez, Cheney Mason has also announced his intention to write a book about the Casey Anthony case. It's a book bonfire of the vanities, so to speak.





Ashton grabbed the brass ring on this one, first with the timing of his book (before Casey, Baez, or Cheney Mason), and then with the fact that his book condemns Casey Anthony (along with Cindy, Baez, and most of the defense legal team), and that's what the public wants to read about this case. The public doesn't want a book that finds Casey Anthony "not guilty." They want a book that does what the jury would not, and then goes one step further...pronounce her guilty and then symbolically execute her.


The love of power will not win over the power of love.
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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2645

Post by A Legal Lohengrin » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:55 pm

Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't be very sympathetic to Gonzalez if she is offered a settlement (even in future $$) close to her damages demand, but still takes this case to litigation--spending the taxpayer dollars and court resources necessary to take it to trial. Ditto Texas EquuSearch.The court would also probably not only not be very sympathetic if she turned down an offer and then got no more than the offer after trial, but could very well assign attorney's fees to Anthony's lawyers, at least those fees accrued after the good faith settlement offer.I'm not sure how that analysis would be impacted if Gonzalez wanted but was denied significant relief like a retraction and apology, since it is not as if Anthony is going to be cutting a check any time soon and, in fact, really only has the ability to confess to a judgment.



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The Casey Anthony Trial

#2646

Post by LM K » Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:56 am

Personally, I doubt she can sustain lawful behavior much beyond her current probation (another 8 months), while she is (I understand) under the supervision of a member of her criminal defense team, and while her location is secret. Once Casey is cut loose (or she decides to cut herself loose), I expect her to behave badly again. Already a convicted thief, and with a long history of stealing from her family, grandparents, and friends rather than actually working for a living, I'd expect her to continue that behavior (at the least).Casey has no job skills, hadn't obtained her high school degree or GED while in jail, and hasn't ever been able to keep a job. Then there is the whole "I murdered my child, then accused my father of molesting me for years and framing me for murder" thing.





Casey has no ability to earn money legally unless she sells her story. I know that many think Casey will be able to earn $$$ off of this, but I'm not convinced. Can she earn some? Yes. But she already owes the State of FL over $800,000 or $900,000. Once everyone has collected from Casey, she won't walk away with much. She may not even be offered enough to pay off FL.




Edit: I did a quick review of the $$$. I think Casey owes various State agencies in FL at least $900,000. It could be a bit more than that. I'm not going to take the time to make a solid quote, but it is close to $900,000. In addition, she owes $68,000 in back taxes, various court fees, $4,000 for lying to LE (under appeal), $ to the friend she stole from and whatever she ends up owing to ZG.





In order for Casey to make anything on her story, she is going to need to gross 1.5 million at least; that would pay off the above debts and taxes on the money she earned from selling her story. As long as no additional debt exists, and TE doesn't sue, anything after 1.5 million would be Casey's to keep.





Casey is toast.




Folks over at amazon are pissed about Ashton's book. "He's making money off of a dead baby!" :roll: "He let a baby killer go free!" :roll: This is the response towards one of the most rational players in the saga. (Ashton is fiery; he has his faults; but of any of the players who will write or sell their part of the story, he is the most respectable.) I can't very many see people paying money to Casey Anthony. They will find another way to get the info they want. And Casey isn't smart enough to turn this to her financial advantage.





Casey has the potential to make $$$, but it won't be anywhere near what folks thought it would be even 4 weeks ago. By the time she pays off the State of FL, Gonzales, TE and all of her other accruing debts, there will be very little left over. Unless Casey changes her look to a moderate degree, changes her name and invents another life far away, she will never have a legal lifestyle. No one will knowingly hire Casey Anthony to do anything legal or respectable.





While I believe, as I've said before, that the value of Casey's post-trial media appearances diminishes every day, and with each piece of that pie taken by others (like her parents with their Dr. Phil interviews, or Jeff Ashton with his book/potential movie/multiple interviews) there's probably still a million $$ to be made. Should Zenaida Gonzalez receive a judgment today (either through settlement or jury award), that judgment could (and probably would) attach to Casey Anthony's future income. Further, here in Florida, our circuit judges have the authority to require alternative dispute resolution (typically in the form of mediation) participation by the parties. During the course of such mediation (if so ordered), if Casey Anthony (through her attorneys) came up with a settlement offer close to Gonzalez's damages demand, the court is certainly not going to respond positively should Gonzalez (through her attorneys) reject that offer. In my opinion, Zenaida Gonzalez doesn't need a trial to achieve vindication (although such public vindication of Gonzalez, along with public villification of Anthony might be very satisfying)--in that 'court of public opinion,' Gonzalez has already been vindicated. Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't be very sympathetic to Gonzalez if she is offered a settlement (even in future $$) close to her damages demand, but still takes this case to litigation--spending the taxpayer dollars and court resources necessary to take it to trial. Ditto Texas EquuSearch.I didn't know (or forgot) that the Judge could order the lawyers to mediate a settlement. Thanks, Paul.





I agree with you; if offered a settlement that is near her demands, Gonzalez should settle. ZG hasn't struck me as being unreasonable in her suit; the money she is requesting is incredibly small. I think that ZG just wanted to be reimbursed for being mistreated and for losses she suffered as the target of Casey's liesssssssssss. Neither she or her lawyer saw Casey's defense story as a possibility, and they never expected her to be free. While ZG's lawyer likes to trumpet that he is going to get the truth, we all know he won't. ZG knows he won't. I don't think ZG is going to push this beyond reason. She just doesn't strike me that way. I would be shocked if ZG tried to string this out forever. I think she will settle if she is presented with a fair settlement. But at this point, I don't see her accepting almost nothing. Nor should she, IMO. I think she wants to be justly compensated as the court sees fit. If that includes a jury trial, so be it. If that entails an order to mediate a settlement, so be it. But ZG does not want to let Casey off with nothing. Personally, I was shocked that ZG wasn't asking for millions from Casey. IIFC, she is asking for less than $20,000.





I don't think ZG has it in her to abuse the court system. She just seems too decent for that.








I would disagree with that. With the exception of Jesse Grund, Casey's relationships have been a series of short-lived (at best a few months, more typically a night or two) encounters and her own fantasies (Jeff Hopkins). I think Casey Anthony has certainly tried to use her looks (and easy sex) to attract companions. Sure, it has worked, if you call bouncing from man to man like a pinball to a bumper a lifestyle that "works." For a hooker, maybe.Exactly; Casey's expectations were never high!





This will be a very difficult turning point for Casey. She used her looks and sexuality to get what she wanted. Now she is doomed by the only thing she had going for her; her appearance. Casey can't just make a "small" surgical change. She is going to have to modify her appearance at least moderately. Casey's inner self has always been intensely chaotic. She is going to have a very difficult time adjusting to a new face.





I don't think the Anthonys (Cindy and George) are marketable. They shot the wad, so to speak, on Dr. Phil and, I think, did themselves no favors in that process. Cindy Anthony is not a sympathetic character (the only person less sympathetic is Casey Anthony). George Anthony doesn't fare much better with the public. In addition to Baez, Cheney Mason has also announced his intention to write a book about the Casey Anthony case. It's a book bonfire of the vanities, so to speak.





Ashton grabbed the brass ring on this one, first with the timing of his book (before Casey, Baez, or Cheney Mason), and then with the fact that his book condemns Casey Anthony (along with Cindy, Baez, and most of the defense legal team), and that's what the public wants to read about this case. The public doesn't want a book that finds Casey Anthony "not guilty." They want a book that does what the jury would not, and then goes one step further...pronounce her guilty and then symbolically execute her.I agree with you about the Anthonys. People are sick of them. Everyone really, really wanted to see that Cindy "got it" after the trial was over. Instead, they saw that Cindy was nearly comatose and in deeper denial then ever on Dr. Phil. The watching world just crashed their heads against their tv screens as they watched Cindy.





I'm not sure that your being fair in your description of Ashton's book. I think that there is likely to be much more there. Ashton is super sharp. He is intense and emotional; he isn't shy and lets the world know that he thinks Casey is a psychopathic baby killer. I suspect he crossed some ethical lines in the book. I haven't read it or read much about it, so I can't say yet. But Ashton strikes me as too intelligent to just write a symbolic execution book. So far it sounds like he has some interesting things to say. I have no doubt that he will raise some very interesting questions about the legal system. OTOH, you are in his area and his profession, so you know more about him than I would and have likely heard quite a bit about him in the past 2 years.





Are you thinking about reading Ashton's book, Paul? I'm torn. I really want to know more about the forensic psych depositions. Shocking, I know! I would also like to know more about the prepping for this trial and the forensics issues in this case. Ashton was key to the forensics in this case. I would also like to know more about his own personal journey throughout this trial and its aftermath.



A Legal Lohengrin
Posts: 10415
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm

The Casey Anthony Trial

#2647

Post by A Legal Lohengrin » Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:39 am

I didn't know (or forgot) that the Judge could order the lawyers to mediate a settlement. Thanks, Paul.The judge can order them to mediate, but can't in theory force them actually to settle. In practice, however, the judge has the power to make it very rough on an unreasonable litigant, either by procedural means such as ordering the case immediately to trial or, for that matter, delaying it, or by shifting attorney's fees at the end against the unreasonable party.Unreasonable parties do things like outright contempt of court, such as refusing to show up, or dumb sneaky things they think are clever, like sending a company representative who does not have the authority to sign a settlement offer (and that can also be contempt).



LM K
Posts: 8257
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:59 pm

The Casey Anthony Trial

#2648

Post by LM K » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:22 pm

Thanks, Loh! That makes a lot of sense.This is an interesting article. At the recent OCBA forum, "Lessons in Ethics & Professionalism From the Casey Anthony Trial", lawyers discussed the ethical issues surrounding Baez' opening statement. Specifically, the article looks at the ethics of Baez' opening, the consequences of his opening for himself and for Anthony.[link]Opening Statement Still Haunts Baez and Casey Anthony,http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/loc ... full.story[/link]snip.....Yet questions in the legal community linger: Was that opening ethical? And will the genesis of its unsupported claims ever be exposed in the lawsuits against Anthony?snip.....In a later interview, Mashburn said, "It's unlikely that we're ever going to know" whether an ethical violation occurred. What we do know, she said, is: Lawyers cannot make things up. They cannot allude to any matter at trial for which they don't have admissible supporting evidence. And they cannot offer false evidence.But if at the time of his opening Baez believed his client would testify about the abuse and the drowning — even if he advised against her testifying — and if he believed he could effectively cross-examine her family members, then he could give that opening on firm ethical footing, Mashburn said.If he knew Anthony would not testify and that he would have to support his claims largely through cross-examination of her family, which is what eventually happened, "that's more ethically problematic," Mashburn said.snip.....Rose said the story Baez gave at the opening "did not seem to be supported by the evidence presented."snip.....1. How long might Anthony's appeal take to complete? 2. Lawyers and other legal edumicated persons; Judgements/settlements in the 2 civil suits against Anthony are highly dependent upon the end result of Anthony's criminal judgement appeal. I know that many think that Anthony is still going to earn money off of her stories. However, as I pointed out earlier, Anthony already needs $1.5 million to pull herself out from the money she owes others in this case already. If ZG and TES settle, they are settling on:a. Money that won't likely existb. Belief that Casey Anthony will honestly report money she makesZG and TES are screwed either way. Assuming that each case is found to have merit, how does a Judge try to find the most just resolution for them.3. Over the months we have discussed that the Defense doesn't have to provide evidence. I thought I understood that. The above article raises some interesting questions about the ethics of using fiction as a defense. If I understand this correctly, the OCBA forum discussed that it is unethical for a lawyer to introduce a defense that can't be supported. Can someone explain that to me in more detail? The article does a good job discussing the sexual abuse portion of the opening, but doesn't discuss how Baez needed to be able to support that Caylee drowned and that George was involved in her death.Should the Prosecution have tested Baez' opening more? Baez got away with saying Caylee drowned and he had nothing to substantiate it. He also did a good job convincing the jury that George had something to do with Caylee's death and there is nothing to prove that. Nothing at all. I am trying to understand what a Defense attorney's responsibilities are to the alternative theory they provide. The article says that the defense can't make stuff up and must be able to provide some support for their alternative theory. On the other hand, we discussed that the defense doesn't have to provide evidence at length this summer. I haz a confuzzled!!4. If the criminal appeal is finished before the civil cases finish, that makes things very, very complicated for Casey Anthony. Can the Plaintiffs in the civil cases demand evidence of Baez' defense as it would be applicable to each civil case?I can appreciate that some may not want to discuss the procedural issues anymore. I thought the article raised some interesting points as it confused me! But the world won't end if I am still confused.Lifetime is already at work developing Ashton's book into a [link]tv movie,http://www.wftv.com/news/ap/entertainme ... ook/nFd8D/[/link].A spokeswoman says a TV movie is in the works about the sensational trial of Casey Anthony, the Florida woman who was eventually acquitted of killing her 2-year-old daughter.Fox Television Studios spokeswoman Leslie Oren also said Tuesday that her company has optioned the film and television rights to "Imperfect Justice: Prosecuting Casey Anthony." The book was written by Jeff Ashton, a now-retired prosecutor from the trial.snip.....Oren says the project is being developed for the Lifetime cable network, but it's still in the early stages. It's not yet known when it will air.snip.....



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