Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

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Northland10
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#151

Post by Northland10 »

Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:21 am
If you want to give them more detail, Calvin's Case (1608) discussed the theoretical underpinnings for birthright citizenship in detail, and in a way that links allegiance and jurisdiction. The complexities boil down to this: those who are born within the jurisdiction of the sovereign (then, the King; now the nation) are, as a result of their birth within the jurisdiction, born owing allegiance to the sovereign and vice versa. Those obligations are the source of citizenship.
Good thing we're Americans because, Surely, a frenchman would have an issue with that case.
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Addie
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#152

Post by Addie »

An interesting piece today.
New York Times

Some Hispanics With Jewish Roots Pursue an Exit Strategy: Emigrate to Spain

ALBUQUERQUE — Ana Maria Gallegos’s family has called this part of the West home for centuries. But after growing horrified by the resurgent racism she has seen across the United States, she reviewed her options and decided on a plan: emigrate to Spain.

Ms. Gallegos joined a growing number of Hispanics from the United States benefiting from a 2015 Spanish law seeking to atone for one of the grimmest chapters in Spain’s history: the expulsion of thousands of Sephardic Jews in 1492. The law offers citizenship to descendants of those Jews, many of whom converted to Catholicism but secretly adhered to Jewish traditions as they settled in New Mexico and other frontiers of the Spanish Empire.

“I had neighbors start spewing the same racist talk as the president of the United States,” said Ms. Gallegos, 54, a court reporter raised here in a Catholic family. “All this hatred just scared the wits out of me, but fortunately I had this ancestral connection.” She left New Mexico this year with her husband and 12-year-old daughter, moving to Málaga in southern Spain. ...

Their efforts to obtain Spanish citizenship reflect a troubling new twist in the Hispanic experience in the United States: Some whose families have been here for centuries now feel so vulnerable about their place in society that they are finding refuge in the country that expelled their ancestors five centuries ago. ...

“Our applications jump every time Trump says something scary,” said Sara Koplik, director of community outreach at the Jewish Federation of New Mexico, an organization vetting applicants for the Spanish government. “Some want Spanish citizenship as a kind of insurance policy in case things go very wrong in this country.”

The Spanish law does not require applicants to give up their existing citizenship and they do not have to be practicing Jews, but they must have their Sephardic ancestry confirmed by established Jewish organizations and pass demanding language and civics exams. Estimates vary on how many Americans might be eligible, since many Hispanics are unaware of their own Sephardic heritage. But scholars who specialize in Sephardic migration say that people with such ancestry number in the hundreds of thousands in the United States, if not more.

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Addie
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#153

Post by Addie »

The Nation: Originalism Is a White Supremacist Scam

Republicans made a con man president, but he just exposed their longest-running con.
Slate: Trump’s Plan to End Birthright Citizenship Has Been Tried Elsewhere. The Human Rights Abuses Were Horrific.

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RTH10260
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#154

Post by RTH10260 »

3 Arrested in Crackdown on Multimillion-Dollar ‘Birth Tourism’ Businesses
Federal agents conducted raids in Irvine, Calif., in 2015. Three people were arrested Thursday in the biggest federal criminal probe to target the thriving “birth tourism” industry.

By Miriam Jordan
Jan. 31, 2019

Three people who operated multimillion-dollar birth-tourism businesses in Southern California were arrested Thursday in the biggest federal criminal probe ever to target the thriving industry, in which pregnant women come to the United States to give birth so their children will become American citizens.

The businesses coached their clients to deceive United States immigration officials and pay indigent rates at hospitals to deliver their babies, even though many of the clients were wealthy, investigators said. Some Chinese couples were charged as much as $100,000 for a birth-tourism package that included housing, nannies and shopping excursions to Gucci.

A tip sheet for customers, entitled “Strategies to Maximize the Chance of Entry,” recommended stating on a visa application that pregnant mothers intended to stay at the “5-star” hotel, “Trump International Waikiki Beach,” to convince immigration officials that they were well-to-do vacationers, not mothers traveling with the intention of giving birth on American soil, investigators said.

Grand jury indictments unsealed Thursday in Federal District Court in Los Angeles brought the total number of people charged in the schemes to 19, including both business operators and clients. But some of those targeted in the indictments were not presently in the United States, investigators said.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/us/a ... urism.html

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Mikedunford
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#155

Post by Mikedunford »

Ah, yes. The "Trump International Waikiki Beach" a "5-star" hotel that's in Waikiki, yet is not actually on the beach.
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Sam the Centipede
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#156

Post by Sam the Centipede »

Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:10 am
Ah, yes. The "Trump International Waikiki Beach" a "5-star" hotel that's in Waikiki, yet is not actually on the beach.
Is "star" a Hawai'ian word meaning "turd"? :-D

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Dolly
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#157

Post by Dolly »

This topic is back in the news. I am using this old thread cuz I don't know where else to post this OPINION piece from The Hill by Mark Krikorian is executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies.
How Trump can get the citizenship question rolling

President Trump recently revived the debate over whether anyone born on U.S. soil should automatically be classified as a U.S. citizen. He said to a gaggle of reporters outside the White House: “We're looking at that very seriously, birthright citizenship, where you have a baby on our land, you walk over the border, have a baby – congratulations, the baby is now a U.S. citizen. ... It's frankly ridiculous.”

The president has raised the issue before, notably last fall, when he said the administration was considering an end to birthright citizenship via executive order.
....................
No law or Supreme Court ruling requires this. Instead, the practice stems from an interpretation of the 14th Amendment. The relevant part of that amendment reads: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” The point of the post-Civil War amendment was to prevent the former Confederate states from stripping the citizenship of the newly freed slaves.

This seems straightforward, but is not. The slavery issue is gone, but new issues have arisen. Specifically, what does “subject to the jurisdiction” actually mean? Some argue that it includes everyone other than foreign diplomats, including children born to tourists and illegal aliens. Others claim that only those permanently living here and part of the polity are covered, since the framers of the amendment, adopted in 1868, could never have imagined either mass illegal immigration or airborne tourism.

Here's where the president has an opportunity. He cannot issue an executive order declaring an end to birthright citizenship and decree that only children born to citizens and permanent residents (green card holders) are henceforth to be considered U.S. citizens — that's simply not in power of the chief executive. But he does have the authority to interpret an ambiguous phrase in the Constitution whose meaning has not been clarified by the Supreme Court.

The way that could work would be to instruct the Department of State and the Social Security Administration not to issue passports or Social Security numbers to babies born after a certain date in the future unless at least one parent is a citizen or green-card-holder.
<snip>
https://thehill.com/opinion/immigration ... on-rolling
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Chilidog
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#158

Post by Chilidog »

The way that could work would be to instruct the Department of State and the Social Security Administration not to issue passports or Social Security numbers to babies born after a certain date in the future unless at least one parent is a citizen or green-card-holder.
That has FAIL written all over it.

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Dolly
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#159

Post by Dolly »

Chilidog wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:05 pm
The way that could work would be to instruct the Department of State and the Social Security Administration not to issue passports or Social Security numbers to babies born after a certain date in the future unless at least one parent is a citizen or green-card-holder.
That has FAIL written all over it.
Yes. I snipped the portion where this is supposed to lead to SCOTUS cases.
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Northland10
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#160

Post by Northland10 »

Is Immigrant hating Mark Kirkorian lying or stupid?
Kirkorian's Opinion in The Hill wrote: This seems straightforward, but is not. The slavery issue is gone, but new issues have arisen. Specifically, what does “subject to the jurisdiction” actually mean? Some argue that it includes everyone other than foreign diplomats, including children born to tourists and illegal aliens. Others claim that only those permanently living here and part of the polity are covered, since the framers of the amendment, adopted in 1868, could never have imagined either mass illegal immigration or airborne tourism.
:snippity:
...But he does have the authority to interpret an ambiguous phrase in the Constitution whose meaning has not been clarified by the Supreme Court.
1. SCOTUS did interpret his ambigous phrase, in Yick Wo v. Hopkins (and there is also WKA).
The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says:
Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
These provisions are universal in their application to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality, and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws.
2. Though there wer no "illegal immigrants" as there were not yet laws creating the undocumented status (IIRC, they were added later as part of rather racist quotas on immigration), immigration was most definitely an isssue with the Irish and the Chinese (hence the reason for WKA). I also recall on the debates of the 14th, they were quite aware of implications and some against the amendment used vile language in lamenting that non-Caucasian could be elected President.

Kirkorian has been using the same bigoted arguments that have been tossed at immigration since the first Irish Catholics came to America.
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Dolly
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#161

Post by Dolly »

Northland10 wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:49 pm
Is Immigrant hating Mark Kirkorian lying or stupid?
Yes.
The Center for Immigration Studies is an anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers, and produces research to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham and John Tanton, a eugenicist and white nationalist. Wikipedia
Founder: Otis L. Graham
Founded: January 9, 1986
Headquarters location: Washington, D.C.
Leader: Mark Krikorian
That is as far read at google.
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