Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

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bob
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#26

Post by bob »

Over/under on the usual suspects, who were "horrified" that Obama sought to reform DACA with executive orders, will loudly cheer this president on for these executive orders?

I'm kidding on the over/under part:

And Taitz already has made the argument that Mike D. refuted.

The real over/under is whether, asuming the president issues these executive orders, when striking them down, will a court cite a birther case?
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#27

Post by Addie »

I wonder what he plans to do about the "Birth Tourism" racket by Russians going on for years at Trump condos in Florida. Will there be a Mar-a-Lago exemption? :roll:

Adding:
The Week - January 12, 2018: Russian 'birth tourists' are flocking to Miami, and Trump condos, to give birth to American citizens

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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#28

Post by GreatGrey »

So if the 14th Amendment can be changed by an Executive Order, then why not the 2nd?
I am not "someone upthread".
Trump needs to be smashed into some kind of inedible orange pâté.

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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#29

Post by fierceredpanda »

GreatGrey wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:36 am
So if the 14th Amendment can be changed by an Executive Order, then why not the 2nd?
Remember that Ronald Reagan was in favor of gun control back when it was scary brown people exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. It's weird how certain people like certain constitutional rights better depending on the skin color of people using them.

:think:
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#30

Post by Mikedunford »



Lindsey thinks it's cool.
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AndyinPA
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#31

Post by AndyinPA »

Other countries with birthright citizenship:

https://www.westernunion.com/blog/birth ... countries/

It's not necessarily all who are born in the country, but other countries recognize the right with various rules.



Also, Lindsey Graham to introduce legislation to remove the right through legislation.

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/ ... ssion=true
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said on Tuesday that he will introduce legislation to end birthright citizenship after President Trump suggested he could do so through an executive order.

"Finally, a president willing to take on this absurd policy of birthright citizenship. I’ve always supported comprehensive immigration reform – and at the same time – the elimination of birthright citizenship," Graham said in a string of tweets.
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#32

Post by TollandRCR »

Stephen Miller is the llikely author of this. Trump has np ideas.
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Suranis
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#33

Post by Suranis »

Jeez Graham, get a room.
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Kendra
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#34

Post by Kendra »

Suranis wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:12 pm
Jeez Graham, get a room.
I wonder what he's been promised to become such an ardent fanboy...

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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#35

Post by Suranis »

Kendra wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 pm
I wonder what he's been promised to become such an ardent fanboy...
Maybe the VP position when Trump shivs Pense before Pense shivs him?
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#36

Post by Dolly »

At The Hill link: Updated at 11:47 a.m.
But Vice President Pence said "we all cherish" the 14th Amendment but appeared to suggest that the administration had an opening if Trump issues an executive order.

"The Supreme Court of the United States has never ruled on whether or not the language of the 14th Amendment subject to the jurisdiction thereof applies specifically to people who are in the country illegally,” Pence said at a Politico event on Tuesday.
https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/ ... itizenship


:confused: So it would be different for some and things would remain the same for others?
If parent (parents) had a visa for travel/tourism, school or work, their child would be a USA Citizen?
People working at Trump properties? :twisted:
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#37

Post by fierceredpanda »

If illegal immigrants are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, I'd like to know that. I would have a lot of motions to dismiss for lack of jurisdiction to file.

Oh, wait. No one thinks the United States doesn't have jurisdiction over them in the context of criminal law. They just want a carve-out to keep the brown people from becoming citizens.
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bob
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#38

Post by bob »

"The Supreme Court of the United States has never ruled on whether or not the language of the 14th Amendment subject to the jurisdiction thereof applies specifically to people who are in the country illegally,” Pence said at a Politico event on Tuesday.
A technically true but unserious argument. Wong Kim Ark did mention that his parents were in the country legally. But serious scholars read that as (1) dicta (2) intended to show they weren't diplomats or an invading army (the narrow exceptions articulated in the case).

Too also: Plyler v. Doe.
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#39

Post by Kendra »

Suranis wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:22 pm
Kendra wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:18 pm
I wonder what he's been promised to become such an ardent fanboy...
Maybe the VP position when Trump shivs Pense before Pense shivs him?
:thumbs:

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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#40

Post by Addie »

Newsweek
Donald Trump Targeting People ‘Who Don’t Look Like Him’ With Birthright Citizenship Threat, Democrat Says

President Donald Trump was targeting people "who don't look like him" in his threat to birthright citizenship but was unwilling to fend off mass violence from legal gun owners, according to a top House Democrat on Tuesday morning.

Representative Eric Swalwell of California attacked the president over his threat to end the 14th Amendment, which grants citizenship to a child born in the United States.

Swalwell specifically compared the president’s support of Second Amendment rights to those of defending Americans to that of immigrants allegedly posing a national security threat.

“Put this in perspective. @realDonaldTrump is willing to delete a passage from the Constitution to target people who don’t look like him. BUT he’s unwilling to do anything to protect you from violence, arguing that it would conflict with the Second Amendment in same Constitution,” Swalwell said.
Adding:
The Hill: GOP lawmaker: Trump 'cannot amend Constitution or laws via executive order'
GQ: Trump Makes Good on Another Promise to White Supremacists

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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#41

Post by Mikedunford »

Reality Check wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:50 am
I interested to see what Jonathan Turley has to say about the EO. He has had his head so far up Trump's butt he hasn't been seen in months. Well, actually I am not interested.
Not going to bother with links, but, yeah, Turley's still got seriously restricted access to daylight.
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#42

Post by dunstvangeet »

Foggy wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:59 am
Two words:

Wong Kim Ark


:boxing:
And Plyler v. Doe.

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bob
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#43

Post by bob »

Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:39 pm
Reality Check wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:50 am
I interested to see what Jonathan Turley has to say about the EO. He has had his head so far up Trump's butt he hasn't been seen in months. Well, actually I am not interested.
Not going to bother with links, but, yeah, Turley's still got seriously restricted access to daylight.
A quick delve to his blog shows he's devolved to "legal news analysis," i.e., "someone filed a lawsuit about X, about which I have thoughts." :yawn:

(Silence so far on birthright citizenship.)
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#44

Post by Mikedunford »

bob wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:52 pm
Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:39 pm
Reality Check wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:50 am
I interested to see what Jonathan Turley has to say about the EO. He has had his head so far up Trump's butt he hasn't been seen in months. Well, actually I am not interested.
Not going to bother with links, but, yeah, Turley's still got seriously restricted access to daylight.
A quick delve to his blog shows he's devolved to "legal news analysis," i.e., "someone filed a lawsuit about X, about which I have thoughts." :yawn:

(Silence so far on birthright citizenship.)
Apparently, he's been quoted elsewhere - saw some screen captures (but no link). Apparently, it's a difficult area of law now, at least when applied to the children of the undocumented.
"I don't give a fuck whether we're peers or not."
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#45

Post by Addie »

WaPo - Greg Sargent
Don’t fall for Trump’s desperate, race-baiting birthright citizenship stunt ...

The idea of ending birthright citizenship — including by executive order — has long been a dream of restrictionists. It was recently floated by former Trump adviser Michael Anton, the creator of the “Flight 93 Election” imagery, which posited that immigration poses an existential demographic emergency to the United States and that bipartisan elites who favor it are carrying out a form of assisted civilizational suicide.

Ending birthright citizenship, in this narrative, will slow this march toward the cliff. To oversimplify, the idea that this can be undone by executive order turns on a rather creative interpretation of an 1890s Supreme Court decision. That decision interpreted the 14th Amendment — which holds that “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens” — to apply to, well, all persons born in the U.S. The restrictionists claim this does not apply to the children of undocumented immigrants, because they aren’t “subject to the jurisdiction” of the United States.

The argument is absurd — undocumented immigrants are indeed subject to U.S. jurisdiction, and denying their children citizenship privileges would be unconstitutional. But Trump could theoretically direct federal agencies via executive order to stop treating the children of non-citizens as citizens. This would be challenged, and the Supreme Court would then “clarify” whether birthright citizenship applies to the children of the undocumented. (With this court, you never know.)

The important point here is that Trump, by moving to reverse what was originally intended as a bedrock guarantee of citizenship to those born here regardless of their race or the heritage of their parents, is again confirming fealty to a racialized vision of American citizenship, as Adam Serwer argues. When Trump recently said, “I’m a nationalist,” he prefaced this by suggesting this was a taboo thing to say, which is a way of dog-whistling, “I’m a racial nationalist, and I’m not afraid to say so,” while actually speaking aloud only the uncontroversial half of that notion.

By reviving ending birthright citizenship, Trump has again confirmed — as he did with his “s—hole countries” remark — that his animating impulse is to stall or roll back the country’s evolving racial and ethnic mix. As Garrett Epps has noted, stripping away citizenship is also the stuff of autocrats and tyrants. But it’s worth recalling that this position is hardly confined to Trump. When he floated it during the campaign, multiple other GOP contenders joined him.

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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#46

Post by Dr. Kenneth Noisewater »

Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:58 pm
bob wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:52 pm
Mikedunford wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:39 pm

Not going to bother with links, but, yeah, Turley's still got seriously restricted access to daylight.
A quick delve to his blog shows he's devolved to "legal news analysis," i.e., "someone filed a lawsuit about X, about which I have thoughts." :yawn:

(Silence so far on birthright citizenship.)
Apparently, he's been quoted elsewhere - saw some screen captures (but no link). Apparently, it's a difficult area of law now, at least when applied to the children of the undocumented.
I haven't seen him say anything on this yet since the announcement. It's not on his twitter either. I tweeted to him asking for his opinion. Nothing yet.

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bob
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#47

Post by bob »

Turley was on FOX radio. (And he's briefly quoted in this Atlantic piece.)

Didn't listen, but I infer he's making the birther-esque argument about the 14th's Framer's intent.
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#48

Post by Chilidog »

I'd like to see someone contacting the White House lawyers and ask them, "which one of you morons told the president he can do this?"

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bob
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#49

Post by bob »

Chilidog wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:52 pm
I'd like to see someone contacting the White House lawyers and ask them, "which one of you morons told the president he can do this?"
And this is the terrifying part: the president's chilling indifference to the limits of executive power. As if the other branches (both of which his party presently controls) are of no import.
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Re: Trump to eliminate birthright citizenship

#50

Post by Chilidog »

Do you know what is truly scary?

If this issue does somehow wind up back in front of SCOTUS.

We have to hope that John Roberts is the swing vote.

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