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Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:25 pm
by RoadScholar
fierceredpanda wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:59 pm
Foggy wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:27 pm Is there really a definable difference between MGTOW and Incel? They both hate women because they can't get laid.

Of course, the idea that they should, y'know, wear attractive clothing, engage in a bit of personal hygiene, have a bit of money, and be able to converse intelligently about anything other than the violent video game they play all the time is not a concept these gentlemen are familiar with. They consider the effort to become attractive to women as slavery or something.

But I think the MGTOW/Incel terms are the same thing, basically. They're men who go their own way because they're involuntarily celibate, and as long as they don't become violent, the female race is better off from them dropping out of the game.
To be fair, Elliot Rodger went on at great length about his Armani clothes, hygene, and BMW. What he apparently never tried was not being an asshole.
Yeah, what ever happened to taking a long sober look at yourself one day and saying “...maybe it’s me?”

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:25 pm
by maydijo
Every single man and woman out there has been turned down for a date, a drink, sex, etc. What sort of entitled asswipe do you have to be to think that means you get to kill people.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:29 pm
by Hektor
I'm feeling a lot of weird emotions right now. Back two or three lifetimes ago, I used to live right in the area of the attack. I've walked that street many times. I have family and friends in the Toronto area. Even more weirdly, I've been looking into the incel cult for the past while. It's definitely a cult. They have their own lingo, which Minassian's Facebook post is full of. At first I thought that the FB post was an incel "parody." They usually like to claim school shooters and the like are incels. Hell, one is spamming the CBC twitter account, demanding government-issued girlfriends. I've seen them being internet edgelords claiming that the female victims deserved it "because they're worse than Nazis." (Note: According to some incel dogma, there is absolutely nothing worse than not having sex/experiencing emotional intimacy (it's sometimes about sex, sometimes about having a relationship, they aren't very consistent with this) and things like slavery, starvation, the holocaust, losing a loved one to cancer are nothing in comparison).

Incels are lovely individuals who if you take one minute to read their posts on the black pill, femoids, LDARing, NEETing, roasties and other stupidity you will find yourself saying "Wow, I can't simply understand why this upstanding young gentleman doesn't have a girlfriend."

The sad thing is that they are like a bucket of crabs, always pulling each other down. I can empathize a lot with men (and for that matter women) who have difficulty getting into a relationship. But they mostly tell each other that they'll never be happy, that there's nothing they can do to improve their circumstances and even encourage suicide.

It's a messed.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:52 pm
by Foggy
Lordy, what a world we inhabit.

I cut my middle finger rather badly in the kitchen a few minutes ago, so I won't be typing anything lengthy for a while. Huge relief for you, huh? :lol:

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:56 pm
by maydijo
Foggy wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:52 pm Lordy, what a world we inhabit.

I cut my middle finger rather badly in the kitchen a few minutes ago, so I won't be typing anything lengthy for a while. Huge relief for you, huh? :lol:
You should just get in your car or grab a gun and kill lots of people, because why should they be happy when your finger hurts?

In all seriousness, I cut the top off my finger earlier in the year and it KILLED for several days, so all the best and I hope you feel better soon.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:20 pm
by neeneko
Foggy wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:27 pm Is there really a definable difference between MGTOW and Incel? They both hate women because they can't get laid.
Well, they have similar roots and overlap, but their ideas and solutions are very different.

Incels focus on, well, the involuntary celibacy and how discriminated against they are for not having sex. They identify what they are missing and pine about it. So they complain about what they are owed and what the government (or other institutions) should do about it.

MGTOW, at least in theory, centers around men breaking off from women, becoming voluntarily celibate and spending time with other men. They tend to complain more about how women are intruding into their man space (which often means workplace) as opposed to not getting enough sex.

So two very different ideological responses to the same underlying dehumanizing of women.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:28 pm
by RoadScholar
Sounds much like the lame-ass “male empowerment movement” in the 1970’s.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:03 pm
by Volkonski
After Toronto attack, online misogynists praise suspect as 'new saint'

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/af ... nt-n868821
While some posters questioned whether Minassian, 25, was a “fakecel”—the term for someone whose average looks disqualifies him from community membership—most hailed him as a hero of the movement.

“Spread that name, speak of his sacrifice for our cause, worship him for he gave his life for our future,” one poster wrote.

Another poster wondered whether Minassian might have been acting on his own March call to action for incels to commit mass murder and serial rapes, a post on incels.me which has since been removed.

“I want to see some mass food poisoning deaths, maybe a pipe bomb or two, or hopefully somebody finally uses a f---ing truck to just ram down [women] during a school parade or something, mix it up a little,” wrote BlkPillPres, whose username is a nod to the black pill, lingo in the incel community for coming to the realization that a woman will never have sex with them.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:26 pm
by Hektor
the black pill, lingo in the incel community for coming to the realization that a woman will never have sex with them.
I'm going to nitpick this. The black pill isn't just the realization that a woman will never have sex with them... It's that they are "ugly" and looks are everything and that women only go for "Chad" (An alpha-male bad-boy which many incels will describe in excruciating detail). And note, when incels talk about ugly, this includes things like having small wrists, negative canthal tilt and the magical ability of women to perfectly measure if a man is under 6 feet tall. The black pill also insists that there's no possible way any of the misogynistic nonsense they post could possibly send up red flags or that their personality might influence their romantic chances.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:48 pm
by TollandRCR
Across China and India there are 70 million more young men than there are young women. Half of the imbalance is in China and is mostly due to the abolished One Child Policy. India’s imbalance is primarily due to the widespread Asian preference for males, which also applied in China. There is great potential here for social unrest.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:26 am
by neeneko
RTH10260 wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:42 pm
Off Topic
I noticed that when viewing something different than my standard stuff the algorithm jumps on the keywords of a new video and starts to swamp the suggestions with similar stuff. Best choice for me is in such a case to click on the mini-menu on each suggestion and click "not interested" to kill the bugs.
Off Topic
I usually just let me 'favorites' list play for a while, since it is about 200 hundred videos long and mostly music, and that seems to clear things out a bit.

Youtube doesn't seem to respect my 'not interested' clicks for very long.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:33 pm
by RTH10260
no good snippet to quote, just read please
Incel, the misogynist ideology that inspired the deadly Toronto attack, explained
By Zack Beauchamp@zackbeauchampzack@vox.com Apr 25, 2018, 12:20pm EDT
:snippity:

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/25/172 ... -minassian

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:03 pm
by kate520
NiceGuy
and
Too nice
are often euphemisms for “ He really creeps me out but I can’t put my finger on why”. Young people don’t necessarily have the life experience to name what puts them off. Like art, they can’t describe it but they know it when they see it.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:20 pm
by maydijo
kate520 wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:03 pm
NiceGuy
and
Too nice
are often euphemisms for “ He really creeps me out but I can’t put my finger on why”. Young people don’t necessarily have the life experience to name what puts them off. Like art, they can’t describe it but they know it when they see it.
Yes. I had a friend in college who referred to this as the "wild animal vibe." You know how, when you see a dog or cat for the first time, you can just tell if it's wild or tame? If it's a wild animal, you just know to keep your distance, you just know, instinctively, that you can't trust it. People give off a vibe too. You've got to trust your instincts. If someone is giving off that "wild animal vibe," no matter how nice they seem, keep your distance.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 7:25 pm
by Hektor
Well, there are a number of incels who will take your post Kate and say something like "Well, sure all women have an automatic radar that detects if someone posts misogyny on the internet kek." They usually follow this by pointing to female victims of domestic violence and question why didn't the Nice GuyTM detector go off in those instances.

They have a level of self-awareness equal to an Orly Taitz level of competence.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:00 pm
by Sterngard Friegen
RTH10260 wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:33 pm no good snippet to quote, just read please
Incel, the misogynist ideology that inspired the deadly Toronto attack, explained
By Zack Beauchamp@zackbeauchampzack@vox.com Apr 25, 2018, 12:20pm EDT
:snippity:

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/25/172 ... -minassian
Zack can barely write English:
The Chad is the masculine ideal, one incel men cannot emulate for reasons of poor genetics, while the Stacy is whom every incel man wants to sleep with but cannot because they aren’t a Chad.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:14 pm
by maydijo
And once again we see what happens when warped masculinity meets isolated and frustrated young men. This is what powered ISIS, this is what powers so many cults, so many acts of terrorism, even much of criminal gang activity. It is also why we now have an idiot in the White House. How do we take away this sense of entitlement while at the same time addressing the very real sense of isolation and frustration that comes from being underemployed, undereducated, and having a deficit of appropriate social and emotional skills?

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:15 pm
by RoadScholar
You think you’re the first generation of guys to ever lament the fact that women are often attracted to handsome, sometimes not so nice, men?

Oh, boo friggin’ hoo. :talktothehand: You’re not even among the first thousand.

Re: Toronto: Driver of van slams into pedestrians over 1/2+ mile rampage

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:30 pm
by maydijo
RoadScholar wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:15 pm You think you’re the first generation of guys to ever lament the fact that women are often attracted to handsome, sometimes not so nice, men?

Oh, boo friggin’ hoo. :talktothehand: You’re not even among the first thousand.
It goes both ways. Some men are also attracted to pretty but sometimes not so nice women. We've all had friends (of both sex) who date pretty, stupid, mean people, and we've all gone around thinking, "Sure, he's cute, but he's a jerk, you deserve better."