The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein -- and Other Sexual Predators

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Notorial Dissent
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#76

Post by Notorial Dissent » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:07 am

:yeah:
The fact that you sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the “Law of Gravity” is unconstitutional and a violation of your sovereign rights, does not absolve you of adherence to it.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#77

Post by DejaMoo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:59 am

The former CEO of the Walt Disney Co., Michael Eisner who had a contentious relationship with the brothers Weinstein after the filmmakers sold Miramax to Disney in 1993, came out today on social media with a tweet and FB post saying that he had no idea about the “horrible actions” of his former employee.
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Sure. In an industry fueled by gossip, nobody knew anything about it. Nobody saw it, nobody heard about it. And whatever happened and whoever it happened to, happened to somebody else. All those big stars he hit on just said, "hell, no" and that was that.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#78

Post by Kendra » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:26 am


Hollywood executive Harvey Weinstein has been suspected of sexually harassing women for decades. But Weinstein’s behavior was apparently a well-known, dark inside joke in some Hollywood circles.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#79

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 am

In exactly what other industries would it be considered "part of the game" to tell people "you can have the job if you perform sex acts with me?"

It's reprehensible.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#80

Post by kate520 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:48 am

Women know. In many industries, son. Many.

Casting couches aren’t just for actors.

The payoffs for actors are huge, if they say yes. In other industries it may be a for a job, for a promotion, so as not to be fired, etc.

It’s out there, it’s everywhere.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#81

Post by RVInit » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:05 am

I once had an experience with the Chief of Police when I took a job with a city many years ago. Guess which one of us had to leave the job because of it? I'm sure you know which one of us left and which one went on to complete a career and is living on a nice pension.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#82

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:09 am

kate520 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:48 am
Women know. In many industries, son. Many.

Casting couches aren’t just for actors.

The payoffs for actors are huge, if they say yes. In other industries it may be a for a job, for a promotion, so as not to be fired, etc.

It’s out there, it’s everywhere.
Point taken, but I don't think it's as much accepted as normal anywhere else as in Show Biz.

One if my best friends worked her way up in the TV production world, all the way to NYC. At a major company she was told if she put out she'd get the job. She said no. He told her "you'll never work in this town again," and she thought he was exaggerating.

After that, she could get no interviews in NYC; they wouldn't even return her calls. She ended up with a nice career at Nickelodeon in Florida, but her primary dream was shattered by powerful pig asshole men.

So I get it.

Edit: You may call me "Son" if you like, Kate, but I'll be 62 in December. ;)
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#83

Post by kate520 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:04 pm

And I was 65 two weeks ago...son. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#84

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:34 pm

Can I call Roadie "sonny"? As for you, Kate, I call you "Your Excellency"!

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#85

Post by Slarti the White » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:53 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:34 pm
Can I call Roadie "sonny"? As for you, Kate, I call you "Your Excellency"!
Yes Rebbi :sterngard:

And I can call Roadie "old man".
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#86

Post by MN-Skeptic » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:02 pm

kate520 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:04 pm
And I was 65 two weeks ago...son. :mrgreen:
I envision you looking exactly like your avatar. That's a great looking 65 year old avatar!

BTW, I will turn 65 in December.
MAGA - Morons Are Governing America

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#87

Post by DejaMoo » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:13 pm

Off Topic
In my teens/early twenties I worked for a local seed company/garden center. The owner was a genuine egotistical, lazy, ignorant jerk. (It was a family business; when he failed as a plumber he went to his dad and told him he was joining the company).

When I interviewed for the job, one of the questions he asked me was why I should get the job, instead of a guy who had a wife and kids to feed. This was a portent of what was to come every time I fought for a raise ("If you were married, your husband would be supporting you, so you wouldn't need more money.") After five years on the job, a couple of male coworkers, who'd worked there just over a year, came to me and shared their salary info. Yes, he was paying each of them twice as much as he was paying me - and they were my subordinates. His excuse, when I hurtled into his office and confronted him about it was, "They also drive the truck." Bull! I used to drive the truck, too - but then the truck got repossessed, so none of us were driving a truck anymore!

He regularly brought up my personal appearance, finding fault with everything about my looks. I just rolled my eyes. His contantly telling me how unattractive he found me was, I figured, his way of letting me know how much he disliked me. (Also, I'm aspie and miss a ton of social cues, which can be good, in that I don't get my feelings hurt easily.)

And then he found out a movie starring a singer I'd crushed on was going to run on cable in a few weeks. He had cable, I didn't. He told me I could watch the movie at his place. I declined. He insisted. In fact, he browbeat me into agreeing, just to get him to shut up about it. I figured I'd fail to show that night and tell him later that I'd forgotten all about it. Which I did, so thoroughly that when the phone rang that night, I answered it. He demanded I haul ass over to his house, 'cause the show was starting in less than a half hour. More browbeating. I finally agreed. I figured I'd show, watch half with him and his girlfriend, then leave.

At his house, the first thing I noticed was that his girlfriend wasn't home. The second thing I noticed was that he wasn't leading me to his living room. No, the tv was in his vast bedroom, the one that used to have an in-ground swimming pool within it (later converted to a tropical garden). There were no chairs, only the bed to sit on. I perched uneasily on the edge of the bed.

I was finally starting to have a bad feeling about this.

He disappeared into the master bathroom to take a quick shower, and reappeared in just a bathrobe. I was now seriously creeped out. Not afraid, just...ugh.

He sat down next to me and we watched the movie in utter silence until, having completely lost my nerve, I jumped to my feet, babbled something about the time, and fled.

He never touched me, and later those two male subordinates separately came to me and asked to never have to work alone with him again, ever. Turned out he was hitting on them. So I never put it together, until after I'd left for another job. Months later, when I was having my annual Halloween bash, a guest told me there was some guy at the front door asking for me. I preened and hustled over to open the door to find...him? WTF?

I handed him a piece of candy and slammed the door shut.
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#88

Post by neeneko » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:26 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:09 am
Point taken, but I don't think it's as much accepted as normal anywhere else as in Show Biz.
I wonder if there are any good stats on this. I have always got the impression the entertainment industry is known for it, but I hear stories about it from people in pretty much every industry. So I have never been sure if show biz simply makes for a better story or if it is actually more prevalent there.

I can say I have been hearing more and more of it coming out of tech, as the difference between the $29,000/year disposable programmer and $290,000 golden professional becomes starker, and VC becomes a bigger deal, that casting couches are becoming more and more a thing.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#89

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:33 pm

It's just that you occasionally hear of sexual harassment lawsuits in other industries, even rape charges... and even when no action is taken, it's kept on the down low. Like they're ashamed of it, which they should be.

In Show Biz, it's just so damn blatant. :madguy:
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#90

Post by ObjectiveDoubter » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:36 pm

Notorial Dissent wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:07 am
:yeah:
Off Topic
I hate when this goes on the top of the next page, and I have to go backwards. Just sayin'.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#91

Post by Azastan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:19 pm

neeneko wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:26 pm
RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:09 am
Point taken, but I don't think it's as much accepted as normal anywhere else as in Show Biz.
I wonder if there are any good stats on this. I have always got the impression the entertainment industry is known for it, but I hear stories about it from people in pretty much every industry. So I have never been sure if show biz simply makes for a better story or if it is actually more prevalent there.
Most people have heard of Meryl Streep, or Angelina Jolie. Most people have NOT heard of Rena Weeks or Carla C. Ingraham.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#92

Post by neeneko » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:28 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:33 pm
It's just that you occasionally hear of sexual harassment lawsuits in other industries, even rape charges... and even when no action is taken, it's kept on the down low. Like they're ashamed of it, which they should be.
Yeah, in tech you generally do not hear about it unless some CEO of a company everyone has heard of is involved.

I also suspect that in tech the blowback against victims is still a lot stronger. In entertainment there is at least a chance that enough people have built connections with the victim(s) that they will have defenders (at least if they come out after having an established career), in tech pretty much no one reaches that level of notoriety, even in late career.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#93

Post by Whatever4 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:34 pm

It’s newsworthy in entertainment, not so much in other industries. Many of the women here have experienced sexual harassment or worse at work. Does anyone care if a shift manager tries to feel up a cashier? Or if the warehouse guy fondles himself while watching a woman inventory product? Not newsworthy, not “serious enough” for official action. There’s reasons most victims don’t report. Sure, some 6+-figure employees make the news with lawsuits. But for every one of those women, there are hundreds of lower-status women at those companies who have suffered through the same patterns of misbehavior but weren’t in positions to do anything about it.


Just the first few hits on google:

http://mashable.com/2017/10/11/sexual-h ... jQ4cMdGqqT
More Than 50% of Women in Advertising Experience Sexual Harassment, Study Finds:
Most Female Journalists Have Been Threatened, Assaulted, or Harassed at Work.
Sexual Assault Reports in U.S. Military Reach Record High: Pentagon
https://brandongaille.com/23-statistics ... workplace/
Top 5 Industries with Highest Sexual Harassment Incidents

1. Business, Trade, Banking, and Finance
2. Sales and Marketing
3. Hospitality
4. Civil Service
5. Education, Lecturing, and Teaching

1. 64% of Americans see sexual harassment as a problem in this country.
2. 88% of women have been harassed.
3. 79% of victims are women, 21% are men.
4. 27% experience harassment from a colleague.
5. 17% experienced harassment from a superior.
6. 12% received threats of termination if they did not comply with their requests.
7. 66.6% of victims were not aware of the workplace policies regarding sexual harassment.
8. 50.4% were not aware of what department or person should be contacted regarding the sexual harassment.
9. 1 in 3 women ages 18 to 34 has been sexually harassed at work.
10. 81% of women experience harassment in verbal form.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... s-fox-news
75% of people who experience sexual harassment do not report it... a similar survey in 1994 found that an almost identical percentage of respondents (72%) did not report sexual harassment to an employer...Witnesses are also unlikely to come forward. The 2013 poll found that 23% of people had witnessed sexual harassment in the workplace. Of those, just 33% made a report about what they had seen.
Sexual abuse is a matter of power. Feeling powerless is horrible.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#94

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:40 pm

That's a sobering list.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#95

Post by p0rtia » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:54 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 am
In exactly what other industries would it be considered "part of the game" to tell people "you can have the job if you perform sex acts with me?"
I'm going with "all of them."

Agree on the reprehensible.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#96

Post by RVInit » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:26 pm

I wasn't planning to give details about my experience, but maybe it can help people understand some of the reasons women stay silent about this kind of thing. My experience with the Chief of Police was nowhere near as bad as most of what I have heard from others, but had the same impact on my ability to continue working at that job, mainly due to my unwillingness to...get ready...get HIM in trouble. Yes. I was pretty young and dumb at the time. Not entirely dumb, but dumb enough.

Shortly after going to work for a certain city government, the police chief started paying lots of attention to me. There was a group of people we called the "lunch bunch" - we went to lunch together. Probably about 10 of us, including the chief of police. I found out later he had never gone to lunch with this group until I started working there and of course that did not go unnoticed, except my me as I was a new employee and had no idea who had previously been a member of the lunch bunch and who was not.

One day I brought my lunch and sat outside at a picnic table and who should come along but good ole police chief. This was the point in time where he told me he was recently separated and knew that I was divorced and he thought maybe I could "understand him". I was young and naive, but not naive enough to not see the red flags there. I consciously made a decision to keep things cool, for two reasons: 1) coworker romance bad and 2) "recently" separated. Any one of those things would have caused me to keep my distance but both together were powerful in helping me realize this is something to nip in the bud.

One night my phone rang at home and guess who it was. He asked if it was OK to call me at home and admitted that he had gone into the city's HR data to find my phone number. I decided to go ahead and tell him that I wasn't comfortable with the idea of dating a coworker and thought we should keep our contact limited to the lunch bunch.

What happened next was a humdinger, especially considering that I felt like I handled the situation well and had made it clear that I wasn't up for any kind of relationship beyond casual contact as long as other people were present.

So about a week later I'm in my office working when I receive an email from him asking me to come to his office, he has something urgent to discuss with me and wants to keep it on the down low. I went to his office and he asked me to close the door. Then, he told me that he had come home the night before and his wife, who had been on vacation with their kids, had come home and she had the phone book out with my name highlighted with a yellow highlighter pen. (Not "actually" separated...yet :roll: ). She had found a piece of paper where he had written my name and phone number down and was hoping to find my address from the phone book listings. Luckily, I was in the habit as a woman who lived alone that I had my phone listing my name and number only without an address. I didn't want my name and address listed, but I didn't want an unlisted number because I wanted people to be able to find my number, like old school friends, etc. He went on to say he was afraid of what she might do to me and asked me if I had caller ID. I told him yes and he suggested that I shouldn't answer my door if I saw a woman I didn't recognize and also that I probably shouldn't answer any phone calls if they came from his exchange and I didn't recognize the number. He thought she would try to call me from a phone booth (remember those?). Anyway, police chief's wife had called the city's HR department to inquire if I worked there and to get any public information that she could get about me. So, of course now the human resources manager knows that "something is going on", right?

Here is the interesting thing - I never went to the HR department to tell them exactly what DIDN'T happen. Basically, I did not want to get HIM in trouble - I actually felt guilty about the fact that I considered going to HR to tell them what happened. I believe quite a few young women also would do the same thing, for the same reason. Especially back in those days when it was always the woman's fault. In my case I was not raped, I was not forced to do anything by this man, but, this incident caused me a lot of humiliation and created a situation where the HR department thought...what? I do not even know what they thought, but I was sure it was bad. I ended up leaving the job mostly because of the embarrassment of having this pervert's wife contacting and (according to police chief) harassing the HR manager to get personal information about me, including my address. The PC did tell me that under these circumstances they would not give her my information beyond having to admit that there was an employee with my name, because the PC had indicated to HR that she may try to harm me.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#97

Post by Howard_Kahn » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:32 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:16 pm
I've always wondered if Mike Pence gave his wife a reason not to trust him. Because, yeah, if people would stop sexually harassing other people, this wouldn't be a problem.
I don't know if Mike Pence gave his wife a reason not to trust him or not, but I believe Pence has that policy to protect himself, as I have a similar policy to protect myself.
Me, I'm getting my cheap labor overseas. You. You pay your non-skilled labor $15 per hour.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#98

Post by RoadScholar » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:34 pm

To me, and this is strictly my own personal opinion, men (or women) who use the weight of their position to coerce sex are cowards and weaklings. They have given up trading on their merits to get it by persuasion and have surrendered to relying on brute leverage to get it.

Note that I realize that that is just the icing on the assault and degradation cake.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#99

Post by neeneko » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:44 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:40 pm
That's a sobering list.
It is a list that really makes me want a drink...

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#100

Post by Kendra » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:53 pm

@RVInt, whoah.

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