The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein -- and Other Sexual Predators

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maydijo
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#51

Post by maydijo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:31 am

You are assuming her parents knew she was there. 15 year olds do all sorts of dumb shit without their parents knowing about it. It's not her fault and it's not her parents' fault; it is fully and solely Bill Cosby's fault.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#52

Post by Suranis » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:57 am

Maybe they didn't, that's possible, but its also true that she had zero problems talking to the press about the fact she was there at 15.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#53

Post by Mikedunford » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:12 am

Bill Cosby is to blame for the things he did to women. The culture that created the expectation that someone like Cosby could do such things without consequence is also to blame. An industry that expects victims who wish to continue to work within the industry to remain silent is also to blame. And so on.

None of the factors reduces the blame of any of the others, at least as far as I can see. The that Cosby was enabled does not make him less culpable; that the culture said he could get away with it does not make what he did less wrong. That someone other than the people expecting silence from the victim was the one actually committing the act does not make the expectation of silence less wrong.

Cosby is 100% responsible and remains so, even if there are other contributing factors. Those factors are also responsible and remain so, even if Cosby is 100% responsible. There's no reason that looking at other factors should be seen to reduce the perpetrator's blame.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#54

Post by Suranis » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:53 am

Exactly. I'm not minimising anything. Blame isn't a pie that you slice bits off.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#55

Post by AndyinPA » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:35 am

This goes deeper than the movie industry. We have been called a rape culture for good reasons.

It gets passed over in Hollywood, in sports, in colleges, in business, even in churches.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#56

Post by Fortinbras » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:56 pm

It now appears that Weinstein is being used to smear by Guilt By Association the Obamas and other Democrats for either showing up or including him in various gatherings that involved Hollywood bigs (did Republicans ever rub shoulders with Harvey?).

I have been accused of minimizing Weinstein's sins but I feel relatively safe in suggesting that he probably had better sense than to commit his more blatant sexual offenses in front of distinguished audiences.

Also, if you think that there are no casting couches being used in Washington DC, I have a bridge in just your color.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#57

Post by Suranis » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:03 pm

Yeah of course Republicans rubbed shoulders with him. I put a pic of the Kushners up above. The Dems need to forcefully fight back against that, and point out that they have a guy as bad in the white house. Its hard to fight back when they wont be allowed on the cable news circuit, but they have to do their best.

"Its allowed if you are Republican," must not be allowed to stand. Its long past time for this double standard to be stripped away, and for the Dems to stop accepting this shit.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#58

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:06 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:41 am
Stop digging ! Besides it being a stupid tactic, it's deplorable and offensive.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#59

Post by neeneko » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:21 pm

AndyinPA wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:35 am
This goes deeper than the movie industry. We have been called a rape culture for good reasons.

It gets passed over in Hollywood, in sports, in colleges, in business, even in churches.
I think the movie industry gets extra attention because it has so many professionally beautiful people who's job involves building these psuedo-intimate relationships with audiences.. that and it makes for better news since the people involved have wider recognition.

But yeah... the basic problem seems to be spread out across pretty much all industries, almost like it isn't an issue with specific institutional cultures and more a culture wide attitude.

So most industries, at least most smallish industries (lots of money, few people, high demand for positions, and heavy interconnection between companies) seem to have real problems with 'speak up, lose your career'.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#60

Post by DejaMoo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:17 pm

Facts Do Matter‏ @WilDonnelly 4h4 hours ago

When exposed:
Cosby lost his reputation
O'Reilly lost his job
Weinstein lost his company
Trump - America lost it's mind & made him president
I've heard this bull before.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#61

Post by Whatever4 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:00 pm

"[Moderate] doesn't mean you don't have views. It just means your views aren't predictable ideologically one way or the other, and you're trying to follow the facts where they lead and reach your own conclusions."
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#62

Post by Whatever4 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:20 pm

Fierstein tells internet: You have the wrong Harvey
One innocent bystander in the Harvey Weinstein scandal is Tony-winning “Hairspray” star (and openly gay playwright) Harvey Fierstein.

He tweeted last week in the wake of the Weinstein sexual-harassment bombshell, “Harvey Weinstein is rumored to be in trouble & I am somehow getting flak as well! I get it. All Harveys look alike,” and then, “I’m a good gay! I mean, a good guy. Guys, We’re Mad At Harvey WEINSTEIN, Not Harvey FIERSTEIN!”

Some on social media have mistaken Fierstein for the movie mogul.

Fierstein told us of the mix-ups, “Between a hurricane and a Weinstein, this Harvey is yearning for the days when people mistook me for an invisible rabbit [the Harvey of a Jimmy Stewart film].”
https://pagesix.com/2017/10/09/harvey-f ... ng-harvey/
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#63

Post by Flatpointhigh » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:49 pm

ObjectiveDoubter wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:57 pm
Flatpointhigh wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:37 pm
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:33 am
Sexual predator Harvey Weinstein needs his own topic. He is turning out to be little more than a Jewish Bill Cosby. While the directors of his company have known since at least 2015 of allegations such as those the New York Times has recently reported, it was only after the Grey Lady ran its stories that they finally decided to act. Better late than never? Sexual predators of women continue to harm women until they are exposed and stopped.
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why was it necessary of you to bring in his religion?

Just to add my thoughts, as it's a legitimate question you ask. As a Jew, I do consider Judaism my religion by default, but I am not religious. I ascribe to the belief that for a Jew, doing good makes you a good Jew, especially if you do it without reward or recognition (i.e., selflessly), and that part of being a Jew is seeking social justice. A good Jew does not have to attend shul, and attending shul does not make you a good Jew. A douche-bag like Weinstein, for all the social justice he's fought for, is nonetheless a shitty Jew, for all the evil he's perpetrated on women. That's our history, a part of our ethnicity, as well as part of our religion. That's how I see it.

I also paused for a nano-second when I saw Stern's reference. But personally, I think it adds to the comment, since as I've said, I believe we're called on to do good, as Jews, whether religious or not. And Weinstein didn't. So it matters to me.
It adds fuel to the fire of the "jew as predatory villain" conspiracy.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#64

Post by maydijo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:57 pm

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#65

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:08 pm

maydijo wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:57 pm
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PM sent. :shh:

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#66

Post by Orlylicious » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Was around when Disney bought Miramax, and when Disney kicked them out (Miramax were Harvey and Bob's parents' names so they were really unhappy about that). Maybe Iger will sell the name back to Bob, pretty worthless to Disney now. Worked more with Bob, much easier. The brothers created some of the best movies ever, and like all bad behavior in entertainment, it was tolerated because there's so much money involved. We never tolerated it. While Disney just listed creative differences or some BS in the official statement, Michael said a bit more on Twitter yesterday. Bad behavior is one thing, but all the news about the potential criminal action is new and horrible. Glad society is progressing to be less willing to accept this behavior, yet the pu**ygrabber gets elected president. The arc of history...
Harvey Weinstein: Former Walt Disney Chief Michael Eisner Speaks Up
by Anita Busch October 10, 2017 2:50pm

The former CEO of the Walt Disney Co., Michael Eisner who had a contentious relationship with the brothers Weinstein after the filmmakers sold Miramax to Disney in 1993, came out today on social media with a tweet and FB post saying that he had no idea about the “horrible actions” of his former employee. He also said he fired the Weinsteins for being irresponsible and called Harvey Weinstein “an incorrigible bully”:

Fired Weinsteins because they were irresponsible, and Harvey was an incorrigible bully. Had no idea he was capable of these horrible actions
— Michael Eisner (@Michael_Eisner) October 10, 2017

Disney and the then Miramax honchos repeatedly hit heads over what really was corporate governance laws that Disney (as a public company) had to follow. The brothers Weinstein had — up until the sale — as a private entity operated anyway they really wanted to financially and also launched films that were controversial, one deemed with an NC-17 rating.

It reached a boiling point with Fahrenheit 9/11 which the brothers financed behind the back of Eisner who then told them to basically stop what they were doing. They refused and the film was released. The relationship ended unceremoniously in 2005 when they were supposedly bought out of their contracts and let go with the Dimension label while Disney kept Miramax. It was a welcome departure for both sides.

Did have a laugh on the Fierstein/Weinstein saga. Fierstein is an old friend, I grew up around him on the original Torch Song and the new NYC revival is looking great: http://nypost.com/2017/10/05/harvey-fie ... ion-spans/ He's trimmed the play from the original 4 hours to 2 hours 45 minutes to deal with today's shorter attention spans :(
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#67

Post by Kendra » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:32 pm

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in ... -about-not
Former White House aide Sebastian Gorka said Tuesday that if embattled Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein had followed Vice President Mike Pence’s “rules for meeting with the opposite sex,” Weinstein’s alleged abuses against women would never have taken place.

Pence told The Hill in 2002 that he won’t eat alone with a woman who isn’t his wife or go to events that have alcohol without her — a comment which resurfaced in a March Washington Post story that quickly gained traction.

“THINK: If Weinstein had obeyed @VP Pence's rules for meeting with the opposite sex, none of those poor women would ever have been abused,” Gorka tweeted Tuesday.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#68

Post by AndyinPA » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:40 pm

What's wrong with those people!

:eek2:

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#69

Post by Whatever4 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:38 pm

Kendra wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:32 pm
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in ... -about-not
Former White House aide Sebastian Gorka said Tuesday that if embattled Hollywood mogul Harvey Weinstein had followed Vice President Mike Pence’s “rules for meeting with the opposite sex,” Weinstein’s alleged abuses against women would never have taken place.

Pence told The Hill in 2002 that he won’t eat alone with a woman who isn’t his wife or go to events that have alcohol without her — a comment which resurfaced in a March Washington Post story that quickly gained traction.

“THINK: If Weinstein had obeyed @VP Pence's rules for meeting with the opposite sex, none of those poor women would ever have been abused,” Gorka tweeted Tuesday.
There is just so much wrong with that my mind is boggled. :dazed:
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#70

Post by maydijo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:48 pm

You know how else the offenses never would've taken place? If Weinstein hadn't done it in the first place.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#71

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:30 pm

maydijo wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:48 pm
You know how else the offenses never would've taken place? If Weinstein hadn't done it in the first place.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#72

Post by maydijo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:50 pm

I'm so over this bullshit idea that it's up to women to police male behaviour. Anti-feminists say it all the time - "Oh no, you shouldn't dress immodestly, you might arouse him," "Men should never meet a woman unless his wife or another woman is also there, otherwise he might not be able to control himself," - and then they turn around and say that feminists hate men. Are you fucking kidding me? How is it hating men to believe that men are quite capable of controlling themselves - that the sight of an ankle isn't going to turn your average man into a sex manic? How is it NOT hating men to just automatically assume they can't control themselves and police their own damned selves? If they really think so little of men, why aren't they constantly stressed that men are far more likely to hold positions of power? Oh, yes, men are all immature little children who might lose their shit if a woman shows some side-boob, but let's trust them with the nuclear codes.

I mean for fuck's sake, who are the real men haters here - feminists who expect men to act like grown-ups, or people like Gorka who think men need chaperones at every single business dinner?

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#73

Post by TexasFilly » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:16 pm

I've always wondered if Mike Pence gave his wife a reason not to trust him. Because, yeah, if people would stop sexually harassing other people, this wouldn't be a problem.
I love the poorly educated!!!

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#74

Post by Dan1100 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:21 pm

When you are talking about a guy like Weinstein, you are talking about a criminal. It isn't a case of a guy having a few drinks (or not) and making a fool of himself hitting on a girl that he shouldn't. It is about assault, blackmail, solicitation, and probably rape.

Criminals prey on the vulnerable, that's what they do. People who are smart and careful don't usually become crime victims. But, you don't see car thieves going into court saying "but they left their keys in the ignition so that makes it okay" and getting let go.

If the system worked, then he would have done some fairly serious felony time years ago and then been put on the sex offenders list. People (apparently including the Manhattan DA) have to be asked why that didn't happen.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#75

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:35 pm

I agree with Dan. Reports over the last 2 days are that Weinstein has left the country to be treated for "sex addiction." My only thought was that he should do that only after serving a hefty prison sentence.

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