The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein -- and Other Sexual Predators

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Sterngard Friegen
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#101

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:15 pm

If I had been Bruce Paltrow I would have confronted Weinstein with a shotgun and fired it at his private parts. (I would have loaded the shells with bird seed or salt. They still would have done a lot of damage.) Sometimes self-help is all you've got.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#102

Post by kate520 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:34 pm

Damn, RV. :bighug: :bighug: It really is a man’s world out there.

This incident isn’t the same as yours because no one got hurt or harassed out of a job or humiliated, well not much.

In college I worked many jobs, one of which was on a night cleaning crew at the community college nearby. We always saved the music suite for last because everyone on the crew (but me) played an instrument and would jam for a while. Big Al the biker -laced drums. We would talk during our shift a lot and he told me about his crazy girlfriend, Hope, and how he loved her but she was crazy and she never knew what he was gonna do. I gave him advice and nothing else.

One day Big Al gave a bunch of us a ride home in his van. As I was climbing out the back a tiny woman holding a big-ass gun pointed directly at me jumped out from behind a tree and started screaming at me and Big Al. I was a pretty smooth talker back then, and I talked Hope into putting the gun down. I talked Big Al into driving away and taking everyone else home, and Hope and I talked for an hour. Big Al had a history and she hated not knowing if the person she was talking to at any given moment had slept with her man. I advised her to leave him, even though I liked him a lot and could understand her infatuation. Not yet, she said. We were cool.

Later, after she and Big Al broke up she’d come to me for advice about boyfriends.

Does this come under the heading “Men and women can never be just friends”?i don’t believe it but lots do.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#103

Post by Volkonski » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:01 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 am
In exactly what other industries would it be considered "part of the game" to tell people "you can have the job if you perform sex acts with me?"

It's reprehensible.
Used to happen in the oil and petrochemical industries quite a bit.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#104

Post by Dan1100 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:03 pm

RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 am
In exactly what other industries would it be considered "part of the game" to tell people "you can have the job if you perform sex acts with me?"

It's reprehensible.
There is a legal term for that, it is called criminal solicitation of prostitution.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#105

Post by Lani » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:17 am

I think this discussion is triggering Ptsd....

I, too, had many experiences as a young woman. I think most women did. That's just how it was. Has it changed? Apparently not.

Two bosses told me I was "sitting on a gold mine". A third wanted to introduce me to a well paid professional "companion" to highly placed men in the government. He thought I would make a lot more money in a part time "job" than working for him. Just being helpful, ya know.

There was no support for women in those situations. It was always our fault, just like rape and domestic violence.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#106

Post by Somerset » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:16 am

RoadScholar wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:39 am
In exactly what other industries would it be considered "part of the game" to tell people "you can have the job if you perform sex acts with me?"

It's reprehensible.
Maybe not "part of the game" but more common than you might imagine. My ex boss did it with an intern, and he's still a senior manager at a technology company. The intern reported to me, and I learned about the incident just a couple of weeks after taking a mandatory management class on sexual harassment. I reported it as required, and the retaliation by my manager was clear, if subtle. HR felt they'd handled the situation properly, and I ended up leaving the company. I have to say that I'd be reluctant to report similar harassment in the future.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#107

Post by Foggy » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:00 pm

Y'all seem to have missed the bus on this one. Kinda shocking, y'all need to step up your game. :fingerwag:

Everybody in RWNJLand is in solid agreement, so they must be right and possibly even have a FACT or maybe not to support their totally firm conclusion, to wit:

It's all Hillary Clinton's fault. No woman in this great land of ours would or could be sexually harassed if it wasn't for that beyotch.

So don't miss the bus, throw Hillary under the bus. Now you're goin' not quite as far but in half the time!

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#108

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:45 pm

:roll:

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#109

Post by Fortinbras » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:38 pm

While Harvey Weinstein is getting beaten from all sides, Tippi Hedrin has come forward to say that in her heyday (the 1960s) she was subjected to similar sexual pressure and threats - and ruination - but not by Harvey Weinstein, but by Alfred Hitchcock. Yes, the master of the macabre, Alfred Hitchcock, who featured Hedrin in THE BIRDS, and MARNIE. So far nobody seems to want to pull down whatever statues, plaques, busts, etc. have been to honor Hitchcock.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#110

Post by vic » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:18 pm

Fortinbras wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:38 pm
While Harvey Weinstein is getting beaten from all sides, Tippi Hedrin has come forward to say that in her heyday (the 1960s) she was subjected to similar sexual pressure and threats - and ruination - but not by Harvey Weinstein, but by Alfred Hitchcock. Yes, the master of the macabre, Alfred Hitchcock, who featured Hedrin in THE BIRDS, and MARNIE. So far nobody seems to want to pull down whatever statues, plaques, busts, etc. have been to honor Hitchcock.
Maybe she's saying something now, but she certainly didn't "come forward" just now. This was reported years ago. The Daily Mail had a story in 2012, which mentions the allegations being included in a BBC biopic.

The Guardian in 2016 has a long story about this being included in Hedren's 2016 memoir, and also discusses earlier revelations, such as in a 2008 book. It also references others who insist the events didn't take place.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#111

Post by maydijo » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:31 pm

I took a women's studies seminar in college that was on Hitchcock. He became obsessed with his leading ladies. Grace Kelly was his #1 obsession, and he never forgave her for marrying the prince. Tippi Hedren was a close second. He once gave her a present which was a doll of her, dead in a coffin. If memory serves there was a noose around the doll's neck. There's all this hidden imagery in his films, much of it quite misogynistic and homophobic. He had an ideal woman (the Grace Kelly type) and loved trying to kill her off.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#112

Post by RVInit » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:28 pm

The 2012 movie, The Girl, pretty well covered Hitchcock's obsession with Hedren, how he pursued her and "punished" her when she rebuffed his advances.

imdb synopsis of the movie:
When Grace Kelly retires from films to marry Prince Rainier Alfred Hitchcock looks for a similar blonde and finds her in TV model,the little known Tippi Hedren,who will star in his film adaptation of horror story 'The Birds'. Hitchcock is obsessed with Tippi sexually and,when she rebuffs his advances,sadistically puts her through five days of filming where she is attacked and injured by real birds. Hitchcock's wife Alma and his assistant Peggy are appalled but can do nothing. Tippi is resolved that she will not give in to Hitchcock despite the situation giving her nightmares. Hitchcock and Tippi make a second film,'Marnie'. Having admitted that Alma is the only woman he has ever had sex with and that he now finds her cold Hitchcock continues to pursue Tippi, bombarding her with phone calls declaring his love for her yet reminding her that he alone made her famous and she owes him. At this stage Tippi demands that her contract be terminated and an end title states that they never worked together again.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#113

Post by Notorial Dissent » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:22 am

Hitch was a weird old bird at the best of times, and I really don't want to know just how weird, on top of being a VERY POWERFUL director in his day. There are as I understand it a number of stories floating around about him, the Hedron and Kelly ones probably the best known. Doesn't excuse it in the least.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#114

Post by Fortinbras » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:26 pm

Back to Harvey, who is getting so thoroughly dumped on that I (almost) feel sorry for him.

It turns out that now that Weinstein's company is priced as if the building were on fire, a friend of Trump has come forward to buy Weinstein's company and (altho this part is not quite clear) maybe keep Weinstein gainfully employed.

Weinstein may lose all his memberships in various Hollywood guilds and various trophies might be erased, but so far there is no legal impediment to him making another movie, any more than there are impediments to Lindsay Lohan, O.J. Simpson, or Robert Blake making another movie (gee, I think I've predicted the cast).

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#115

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:43 pm

MN-Skeptic wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:02 pm
kate520 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:04 pm
And I was 65 two weeks ago...son. :mrgreen:
I envision you looking exactly like your avatar. That's a great looking 65 year old avatar!

BTW, I will turn 65 in December.
I just turned 65 which means the three of us are B52s- born in 1952 - a fine year of fine wimmens born!
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#116

Post by Foggy » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:48 pm

I turn 65 in December too also. :thumbs:
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#117

Post by maydijo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:19 pm

So when is the Academy going to strip Roman Polanski's membership from him?

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#118

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:25 pm

maydijo wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:19 pm
So when is the Academy going to strip Roman Polanski's membership from him?
:yeah:

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#119

Post by ZekeB » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:50 pm

Foggy wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:48 pm
I turn 65 in December too also. :thumbs:
Yabutt I turned 65 a December and a half ago.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#120

Post by maydijo » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:27 pm

This is a minor hijack but still related. Thirty years ago someone very close to me was raped. She identified who did it, but he had a good reputation and presented very well. While law enforcement believed her, they didn't think they could get a conviction. It was pretty brutal, and the man had no priors, and as I said, he presented well and was well-liked by the community. A couple of years ago the same man killed his wife. The police convinced my friend to testify, thinking that if they could establish this man had a pattern of behavior, they might be able to get him locked up for a good long time. He was facing two charges - murder for his wife, and rape for my friend. He pled guilty to murder, under an obscure (and I thought obsolete) part of the law that allowed him to claim diminished capability because she provoked him. He was let off with time served. He was sentenced to a three-year good behaviour bond (basically, probation) for the rape of my friend. So now this man who is a known rapist and murderer and has a history of preying on women is walking the streets of my community. (You can't tell me my friend and his wife are his only victims!) I'm furious and sad at a system which allows some men to brutalise women, and does not hold them accountable.

Most men are 'good guys.' Most men would never behave in this way. And women shouldn't have to say thank you for being one of the good guys. I know it's almost offensive for me to say it - "Gee, thanks for never raping or murdering anyone!" - but today I feel like I have to look for a silver lining somewhere, so to all the good guys out there, thank you. Thank you for simply existing, because on days like this, I need you to just be there to remind me that not every man I see is an evil bastard. I'm sorry that we live in the sort of society where women feel safer crossing the street to avoid men, because it's a shame for all of us - for women who can't walk around without feeling unsafe, and for men who are automatically assumed to be a danger when most of you aren't. Violence against women affects us all profoundly. I wish more people could understand that this isn't a women's issue (because labeling it as such allows us to push it under the carpet), but an issue that affects all of us.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#121

Post by Patagoniagirl » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:33 pm

Most guys are good guys, but like cops, if they cover up or excuse the bad guys...they are complicit. Predators like Harvey Weinshitter are afforded "sexual therapy" and his accusers are often awarded money for the abuse they suffered. But for most of us, nothing. Nada. Except for being disgraced because the abuser had some tiny stature in the community.

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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#122

Post by Suranis » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:51 pm

I am really glad to have sparked this discussion. Its been all round pretty good. Just for interests sake, I was sexually harassed in a minor way by a woman in a job I was in once (a superior slapped my ass.) Its very minor compared with what happened to other people but as a pretty screwed up guy in general it made me VERY uncomfortable.

I think the entire Holywood apparatus publicly disowning Weinstein is simply other perpetrators "proving" they are not abusers by publicly being "horrified." He's made the money he is going to make for them, so they are sacrificing and dumping him like a sack of meat.

Anyway, I read this on Daily Kos about why a woman who was raped and has been an activist since wont join the "Me too" hashtag, and I thought it was a thought provoking essay.
I won't say "Me, too."

Partially because most of you know that already.

But mostly because we shouldn't have to "out" ourselves as survivors.

Because men have *always* seen the gendered violence happening around them (and/or being perpetrated by them)—they just haven't done anything about it.

Because it shouldn't matter how many women, femmes, and gender neutral & non-conforming folk speak their truths.

Because it isn't about men seeing how many of us have been hurt; they've been seeing it for a long time.

Because it shouldn't be on our shoulders to speak up. It should be the men who are doing the emotional labor to combat gendered violence.

Because I know, deep down, it won't do anything. Men who need a certain threshold of survivors coming forward to "get it" will never get it.

Because the focus on victims and survivors—instead of their assailants and enablers—is something we need to change.

Because we've done enough. Now it's *your* turn.
I didn’t expect the post to take off (isn’t that how virality always happens?!), but I am glad that it resonated with so many people. I want to take the opportunity to expand my thoughts a little bit more.

I’m in no way judging the survivors and victims who chose to participate. We’ve long been silenced and I do not judge anyone for taking the opportunity to speak out. I also don't see #MeToo as a “bad” thing. I've had multiple friends who have disclosed publicly participate. It's a great place to show solidarity and still can be legitimately empowering for participants. I just knew it wouldn't be empowering for me.

I've been an outspoken survivor for about a decade. I've seen countless social media campaigns that depend on survivors to disclose their status. I even started a hashtag that went viral (#SurvivorPrivilege) a few years ago that allowed survivors to highlight how sexual violence negatively affected their lives.

"Me, too" is framed as an attempt to convince people that sexual violence is a problem. It implies that sexual violence is pervasive simply because (mostly) men don't understand that it's so prevalent, which I don't believe. It reinforces the idea that if there are enough numbers on your side, then we should believe and listen. One victim should be enough for us to care. One survivor is already too many.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1 ... Here-s-why

The rest is a short essay and its worth taking a few minutes to read and think about.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#123

Post by Whatever4 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:20 am

Beautiful essay.

Neither our stories, our thoughts, nor our bodies are public property, and we deserve the right to control who and when we share any of them. If “me too” works for you, great. If not, great too. But either way, two words are only a start. From the above essay:
Listening and believing survivors is great, but it should be the first step of many in doing our part to end sexual violence. We need everyone to participate in raising awareness and taking concrete actions against rape culture, rather than leaving it to survivors to do the heavy lifting.
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#124

Post by Whatever4 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:04 pm

9D089DC5-0915-4CA6-8FCC-A2CF1E447361.jpeg
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Re: The Disgrace that is Harvey Weinstein

#125

Post by Fortinbras » Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:11 pm

Why are we ruining Harvey Weinstein's life and career for making indecent sexual approaches to young women who were dependent on his good will?

The last time we were presented with a celebrity who did that sort of thing, we elected him President of the United States!

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